Quantcast

Jump to content

Chat


Photo
- - - - -

My son and his wife!


  • Please log in to reply
119 replies to this topic

#21 twilightzonefamily

twilightzonefamily

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:41 PM

Definitely stop giving them money. Also, I agree with another poster - why is your son not the one staying home?? With that difference in income it is ridiculous that she insists on staying home. My DH made a lot more than I did when he stopped working to stay at home, but that was because I carry great benefits and have a much more secure job. In our case, the benefits were "money in the bank." Last I heard nurses have good benefits though, and probably better than an attorney.

#22 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:50 PM

People are often surprised by how they are perceived, including me. Recently I found out that some people feel attacked when I address all points they raise. They feel like I'm picking apart their words. But that's not my intention. I figure you bothered to think, feel and write. You reached out here and took the time to communicate it, so I am respecting your effort to consider everything you say. Also, it's what I'd do if I was sitting across the coffee table from you. You'd say a sentence or two and I'd respond, back and forth. Also if you write 45 sentences, I'm not sure which ones I'm supposed to ignore. So if you are one of the people who feel attacked when I 'listen' to everything you write, I apologize in advance. Your story is very interesting. These are my thoughts. They are only mine and worth nothing more than what you value in them. Take what you leave and leave the rest. "...I have never liked the in-law part I always thought when my son married their spouse would be another child of mine..." Whether you like it or not, the 'in-law thing' is a reality. There has been friction in IL relationships for milenium, since the begining of time. That's why it's one of the first things the Bible mentions, that a man should leave his FOO and cleave to his wife. I'm not saying you are hindering this, only that you don't understand how primal a problem it is. Your son did not marry a child, he married an adult who'd left her childhood behind. She had a mother already and a history of growing from childhood to adulthood that completely excludes you. And always will. Sometimes our childrens spouses become like children to us. And we all want that. But it takes a long time, almost as long as it takes them to grow from childhood to adulthood. You expectations and good will were flawed from the beginning; and they led you astray. "...His friends always called me mom!..." You like being mom, but you ARE NOT mom. Not to his friends and not to her. Be honest, how many of those friends still call you mom? They grew up and moved on, it's a joke, and affectionate nickname. I'm sure they genuinely like you, but they never considered you mom for real. It was an honorific, and something to be proud of, but nothing to have taken seriously--or to expect was your due from everyone your son was close to. "...From the very beginning as much as I love my sons wife there was a clear line drawn!..." Of course there was. That's normal. Especially in the beginning. It's not sinister. It's not evidence that there's something wrong with her or there's a secret agenda. It's to be expected. It's healthy and normal and expected, and had it been otherwise that would have been abnormal. Remember you are/were a stranger to her. People do have lines drawn between them and strangers. That's the norm; as you know one another, over years, the lines/boundaries weaken and blur--sometimes. Depending on compatibility. It's is abnormal and a sign of a problem to immediately bond with strangers. A red flag. A sign of dependency and enmeshment--not of love and closeness. If you can love strangers like close family, you are not very discriminating, and that love doesn't mean much. "...Even though it was something I sensed more than was actually said to us!..." Because it didn't need to be said. It was normal and understood. She at least realized that you were strangers and had to feel each other out slowly.

#23 rockstarmom

rockstarmom

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 800 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:50 PM

I'm an attorney and my husband is a teacher. I made more than him, and when I was on maternity leave WE decided it would be best for OUR family if *I* stayed home with our children. Part of that decision was that I had longer hours, my job required weeks of travel at a time, he had the benefits... but the main thing was that we felt me being there was what our kids needed. And we've made it happen. We'd have a lot more money if I kept working, but we'd be a lot less happy right now. Are we really going to advise this poster to get involved in the decision as to who should be the one staying home with the child? Really? It's their choice. Cut off the money and they'll learn to make sacrifices like we have (no more cell phones or HBO for example) to do what they need to do for their own family.

#24 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:51 PM

"....Nothing is more wonderful than a son finding his True Love someone who Loves your son and sees all the good qualities you tried to instill in him!..." True love and soul mates and all that--well, no everyone believes in that stuff and romance. I don't believe in it. I think there are many many people any one person can love deeply. I loved both my husbands deeply, neither was my 'true love'. Also, that the heighth of your emotional pitch is seeing your son find his true love is odd. It devalues your own finding of true love, or any of your own emotional highs in your own life. This is a very codependent statement. Your son's emotions have more meaning than your own. "Nothing is more wonderful..."? Really? Not your own falling in love, not your own relationship with your husband, not the first time you saw your babies when they were born? All that is secondary to your son's emotion of finding his true love. And I am concerned that you are appropriating this emotion to yourself. You created the emotion and event because you created and raised him. When in fact, this is something he created with her, and it had nothing to do with you. It seems to me you are placing inappropriate significance on this event which really doesn't include you, are finding a way to make it include you--and are devaluing your own experience, all at once. This is off balance, and going to be a problem. Your 27 year old son's life and feeling is not yours. It's important you understand to separate your emotions from his. It does not show great love and generosity in yourself, it in fact shows how you devalue yourself and live thru someone else. It's not glorious love and selflessness, it's sad and misplaced.

#25 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:02 PM

"...I will list a few things that have hurt us! When our son became engaged he was in college We paid for the ring he was going to give her..." Why? Why not let them have the ring they could afford. He has a secure future ahead of them. A cheap ring that was truly theirs might have more meaning, and one day at a future anniversary could be replaced. It could be sweet and meaningful and very personal to them. It was also a way for you to insert yourself in what was a very private moment for them, or attempt to. Or maybe they would have been ashamed of having an inexpensive ring. In which case they would be forced to look at their relationship with status, money and self-worth. Have you always provided more for your son than was appropriate for his situation? What does this teach him? 1. to depend upon you, that's for sure. Also, to expect more than he's earned. And how not to evaluate his financial situation--he doesn't need to learn. ANd in a way it infantalizes him. Now, I don't mean to tell you how to raise your children--only to think what you are teaching him. He may be a completely non materialistic person even with having someone provide him with everything. People are different. And this may be the first time you've ever done it. ANd it's certainly no different than if you'd provided grandma's $50K ring. But I'm interested in your motive in buying your DIL's engagement ring.

#26 DonnaW

DonnaW

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:09 PM

I appreciate EVERYONE'S thoughts...I'm not perfect I admit I gave too much! And I POSTED on her to gain insight.... I'm that way with everyone....I'm a giver! Not with strings because I can... and I'm a caring person... often I give anonymously! I'm grateful even though we worked hard to be where we are so I like to give back! As far as the video They we're paid to be there! We paid for the rehearsal dinner and the honeymoon! They showed up for everything except my part even though they were scheduled to be there! As far as the gifts being thrown out...it was a box of gifts it was an accident! As far as knowing she has a mother I get that I released that many years ago! BUT...they have two daughters my son is the son they Never had she calls her his 3rd child! He doesn't call her mom! But I was used to even his friends calling me mom in high school etc! As far as other interests! I have made myself my project ..menopause is the devil...and I'm trying to get in better shape! We have two Dogs children and we purchased a small RV I really enjoy time with my husband! Keep in mind my son and his wife had many big events and always the bob and sally show! Engagement, showers, wedding, honeymoon, graduating nursing school, graduated college, law school, moving across country for law school..taking the bar, graduating law school, moving back across country, buying a home, now not even in their home 2 months she's 3 weeks pregnant! I'm worn out....just typing that...I'm not even excited about baby showers they just got into their house... I think I'm FEELING a lot of emotions because I WANT to be more distant! Seriously...I'm tired! (0= And I AGREE my husband wants to blame his wife...and is afraid he's being controlled! BUT ...not me my son is a grown man.... I think it should be him picking the cards and I told him that! I Love his wife! I also AGREE that keeping track only hurts me! BUT....I kind of feel like yoyo....Because I kept the boundaries LOSE...and open for her to make her feel comfortable! So now I'm trying to be loving and kind but at more of a distance...BUT...I want it to be the REAL me! I think being and empty nester is about making changes and I have realized that we will never be too close to them geographically it's way to HOT there... I think part of my emotion is stepping back and see my expectations are changing! The hard thing is when I pull away my son notices...I feel I'm in a catch 22 sometimes!

#27 jaci

jaci

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2315 posts
  • Locationmountains

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:14 PM

Donna, I am not going to attack you, because I, too, am an enabler. I didn't realize that until a friend of mine bluntly told me. At first, I was hurt and defensive, you know? I had excuses such as "I just want to help". "I dont want them to struggle the way we did". I am working on my enabling ways. You know what happened? While I sat at home, hoping my son and wife would bring my grandchild to see me, they was out having fun, spending THEIR money on eating at nice restuarants and going out with friends. They could spend THEIR money because it was MY money that paid the bills for them. If they ran out of money, they could always come to me for electric bill, car payment, diapers, whatever they needed. Then I had more kids who got married and had kids. I wanted to do things for the other kids and gks, but this one son and his wife was draining me. I had created monsters. They started to "expect" it from me, and when they expect something, to me, they are more disrespectful. At least, in my situation. I stopped. I started going to see my siblings and spending my money on hubby & myself, eating out and enjoying life. I bought cloth diapers. They stopped asking to "borrow" diapers. lol My advice to you is to let some of this go. Don't read anything into it. Take what you get and be thankful for it. Don't let your grown kids and grandkids be your entire life. We moms and mom-in-laws are certainly not our grown kids entire life, and its not healthy to expect that. Just a word of advice. When GKs come, don't be afraid to say no to babysitting. When I only had one GC, I never said no to babysitting, even when I didnt feel like it. Now that I am a lot older, and more GKs, I don't feel like babysitting. I don't mind for short periods of time, but not long periods. I had one of my DILs throw it up in my face how I always wanted to keep GC#1, but not her second child. When we do too much, we set ourselves up for disappointments and to get hurt. I am learning that we need to say no sometimes. We need to allow our kids to grow up.

#28 mrsslant

mrsslant

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2188 posts
  • LocationMinnesota

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

Well, for what it is worth, here are my thoughts. I am a DIL who is currently having major IL problems, I'll admit, but I will try not to project. I agree with PPs about cutting out the money thing. When I got married I was 21, which was 8 years ago. We did not have financial help for anything, really. We have struggled and worked very hard. We don't have a lot to brag about, but what we do have, we have built together. I think that has streangthened our marriage. Obviously stop keeping score. You said yourself they live closer to her family anyway. It is not going to be even. And your DH is probably right, it still wouldn't be even if you lived nearby probably. Look at it this way: They likely hang out with their friends more than they hang out with you also. Probably even more than they hang out with her parents. You would never keep track of that. Also, you are right. It is hurting you way more than it is helping you. As far as her staying home, leave it alone. I'm sure the two of them have discussed it. And you are likely right that they don't have any idea the costs of a baby as you guys have not made them grow up and deal with their own finances. That being said, 60k is not that unreasonable. My DH made 36K our DDs first year. We still made the decision for me to stay home. It was really important to us that one of us was at home with her. Was it hard? Sure. But we have made it. We cut corners everywhere we could. I cloth diaper, so we don't have to spend tons on diapers. I am a coupon shopper, and I cook every night. When something is on sale, such as meat, I buy a lot and freeze it so that I don't have to buy it when it isn't on sale. They can do it if they put their minds to it. I'm just saying I found it very hurtful when my MIL or anyone for that matter would make comments about OUR choices for our family. This has worked the best for us and we are happy. Hopefully they and you will be too.

#29 mrsslant

mrsslant

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2188 posts
  • LocationMinnesota

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

Well, for what it is worth, here are my thoughts. I am a DIL who is currently having major IL problems, I'll admit, but I will try not to project. I agree with PPs about cutting out the money thing. When I got married I was 21, which was 8 years ago. We did not have financial help for anything, really. We have struggled and worked very hard. We don't have a lot to brag about, but what we do have, we have built together. I think that has streangthened our marriage. Obviously stop keeping score. You said yourself they live closer to her family anyway. It is not going to be even. And your DH is probably right, it still wouldn't be even if you lived nearby probably. Look at it this way: They likely hang out with their friends more than they hang out with you also. Probably even more than they hang out with her parents. You would never keep track of that. Also, you are right. It is hurting you way more than it is helping you. As far as her staying home, leave it alone. I'm sure the two of them have discussed it. And you are likely right that they don't have any idea the costs of a baby as you guys have not made them grow up and deal with their own finances. That being said, 60k is not that unreasonable. My DH made 36K our DDs first year. We still made the decision for me to stay home. It was really important to us that one of us was at home with her. Was it hard? Sure. But we have made it. We cut corners everywhere we could. I cloth diaper, so we don't have to spend tons on diapers. I am a coupon shopper, and I cook every night. When something is on sale, such as meat, I buy a lot and freeze it so that I don't have to buy it when it isn't on sale. They can do it if they put their minds to it. I'm just saying I found it very hurtful when my MIL or anyone for that matter would make comments about OUR choices for our family. This has worked the best for us and we are happy. Hopefully they and you will be too.

#30 mrsslant

mrsslant

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2188 posts
  • LocationMinnesota

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

Well, for what it is worth, here are my thoughts. I am a DIL who is currently having major IL problems, I'll admit, but I will try not to project. I agree with PPs about cutting out the money thing. When I got married I was 21, which was 8 years ago. We did not have financial help for anything, really. We have struggled and worked very hard. We don't have a lot to brag about, but what we do have, we have built together. I think that has streangthened our marriage. Obviously stop keeping score. You said yourself they live closer to her family anyway. It is not going to be even. And your DH is probably right, it still wouldn't be even if you lived nearby probably. Look at it this way: They likely hang out with their friends more than they hang out with you also. Probably even more than they hang out with her parents. You would never keep track of that. Also, you are right. It is hurting you way more than it is helping you. As far as her staying home, leave it alone. I'm sure the two of them have discussed it. And you are likely right that they don't have any idea the costs of a baby as you guys have not made them grow up and deal with their own finances. That being said, 60k is not that unreasonable. My DH made 36K our DDs first year. We still made the decision for me to stay home. It was really important to us that one of us was at home with her. Was it hard? Sure. But we have made it. We cut corners everywhere we could. I cloth diaper, so we don't have to spend tons on diapers. I am a coupon shopper, and I cook every night. When something is on sale, such as meat, I buy a lot and freeze it so that I don't have to buy it when it isn't on sale. They can do it if they put their minds to it. I'm just saying I found it very hurtful when my MIL or anyone for that matter would make comments about OUR choices for our family. This has worked the best for us and we are happy. Hopefully they and you will be too.

#31 mrsslant

mrsslant

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2188 posts
  • LocationMinnesota

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

Well, for what it is worth, here are my thoughts. I am a DIL who is currently having major IL problems, I'll admit, but I will try not to project. I agree with PPs about cutting out the money thing. When I got married I was 21, which was 8 years ago. We did not have financial help for anything, really. We have struggled and worked very hard. We don't have a lot to brag about, but what we do have, we have built together. I think that has streangthened our marriage. Obviously stop keeping score. You said yourself they live closer to her family anyway. It is not going to be even. And your DH is probably right, it still wouldn't be even if you lived nearby probably. Look at it this way: They likely hang out with their friends more than they hang out with you also. Probably even more than they hang out with her parents. You would never keep track of that. Also, you are right. It is hurting you way more than it is helping you. As far as her staying home, leave it alone. I'm sure the two of them have discussed it. And you are likely right that they don't have any idea the costs of a baby as you guys have not made them grow up and deal with their own finances. That being said, 60k is not that unreasonable. My DH made 36K our DDs first year. We still made the decision for me to stay home. It was really important to us that one of us was at home with her. Was it hard? Sure. But we have made it. We cut corners everywhere we could. I cloth diaper, so we don't have to spend tons on diapers. I am a coupon shopper, and I cook every night. When something is on sale, such as meat, I buy a lot and freeze it so that I don't have to buy it when it isn't on sale. They can do it if they put their minds to it. I'm just saying I found it very hurtful when my MIL or anyone for that matter would make comments about OUR choices for our family. This has worked the best for us and we are happy. Hopefully they and you will be too.

#32 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:30 PM

"...They looked a rings with her parents and my son called to say that it cost little more than he thought it be ...was that OK?..." I said of course. Again why? Was it only $20 over the budget? Or much more? "...BUT...what hurt us is that they then went to a celebratory dinner the four of them my son his "wife to be" and Her parents! They were five minutes from my husbands office and never even Considered inviting us to dine with them or even toast the occasion!..." They'd spent the afternoon together and it morphed without forethought into a celebration. These things happen. I am sure the dinner was a natural outgrowth of the shopping. If you wanted to toast the occasion, why not invite them over on another occasion and do so? You are going to have to learn separation; you will not be included EVERY time they are together. They will not be included everytime the kids are with you. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Please do not keep score, do not allow yourself to become jealous. They have a RIGHT to an independent relationship with her family that does not include you. And you have the same right. And sometimes maybe you will all want to be together. I suspect you are envisioning a huge blossoming of YOUR family. But that's not what really happens, at least not at first. When a child marries, your family gets smaller--and a new family INDEPENDENT of your family forms. There is some alignment and a little overlap between the family--but DIL and her family are not grafted onto your family. "...When we told our son that we were a little hurt by this...his excuse was it wasn't intentionally done to hurt us!..." And I'm sure this is exactly true. Do you think he did it on purpose to hurt you? Do you understand why you were hurt? I'm not sure I understand, except that perhaps you had some unrealistic expectations, and probably thought that you had some ownership in the occasion since you bought the ring. It's worth exploring because... "...These things have happened repeatedly over and over!..." "...I worked my tail off putting their rehearsal dinner together..." You should only work as much as gives you pleasure. This after all was their occasion; it really was THEIR responsibility to work for their own wedding/party. "...always asking if this was OK did they like that...to make sure they got what they wanted!..." That's nice, and I'm sure they appreciated it, but I wonder to what extent you are a people pleasers (codependent); and think that there's a possibility you have some perfectionism or OCD going on. If they you haven't given them everything they wanted, would it have been a tragedy? If so, for whom? "... However the videographer forgot to show up and tape that event! I put together a HUGE Scrapbook of them as kids and then had a slide show DVD to watch during the rehearsal dinner! I was so disappointed that Everything was videotaped but what I worked so hard on!..." Was anyone else so disappointed that the only thing that wasn't videotaped was the rehearsal dinner? After all, there was the DVD and the HUGE scrapbook to remember the event, and I'm sure people took pictures. The videographer was too bad, but not worth allowing the evening or the memory of the evening to be ruined. It seems as though you want evidence that you were wonderful and did this wonderful thing. Be careful about this. Their wedding and certainly the rehearsal dinner was not about you, or even about how wonderful you made it. What you do, you need to do without pay off and recognition. If you can't do it without recognition (without becoming bitter), don't do it. Yes, everyone WANTS appreciation and recognition, but it can never be counted on. It often doesn't come the way you want and when you want it. Your son and DIL may not appreciate your generosity and kindness for a couple decades. Or ever. There's something about this that makes me think perhaps you do so much for others to fill your own needs. And this dinner missed the mark. You are afraid that the details of it will be forgotten, your part in it will be overlooked. That's not a gift to them--you've made it an obligation. If you do these things it should be because you are enjoying yourself the moment you are doing them; if no one ever thanks you did you still enjoy yourself? That's its own reward. If you do expect something back, either tell them what it is (I'll put on the best rehearsal dinner ever, but you have to name your first child after me--if I get the first Xmas--if you'll join me at a spa day when you get back from the honeymoon--whatever); or only do as much as you can do without expecting anything back. An aside: when you do so much all the time so often, people take it for granted. Not because they are bad selfish or exploitive, but because they become accustome to it and assume you do it because you like it and it comes easy for you. That's human nature, not lack of character.

#33 DonnaW

DonnaW

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:41 PM

Why is it I'm being judged so Harshly and even being questioned that a we helped with the ring! BUT...know one thinks it's ODD that they lived with her parents for a year and a half to save money for a house? What am I missing? Why was that OK? As far as what I said about him falling in Love with her and me being Happy...I wanted you to know right off the Bat I was not bashing the DIL! I did Not feel she was an intrusion I was happy for them! And Yes I do take a lot of credit that he's a good man and that he was raised to treat women right! And I say that because Why is it if your kid ends up on drugs it's YOUR fault as parents...BUT if they turn out Good...Your LUCKY! Shouldn't I take the blame either way! Once again I appreciate all perspectives I posted because I wanted them! BUT...we all come from different places and backgrounds that's why people are easily riled at one thing and others relate or agree! And if they called me MOM because they wanted too because they felt comfortable ....why is that a bad thing! There are posters that want to call the MIL MOM...she was given the choice and I respected that she did not want too! As far as me setting them up for a HIGH life style it was her family that had them buying English Antiques from their nephews store! And registering for Waterford Crystal! My husband and I do Not own Waterford they are the ones who like to take in their little WINE case with their engraved name on it to go to dinner! I some what suspect that's why they don't invite us because we can afford this and don't and they like to do it....meaning my sons inlaws! BUT..I don't care it's their business! I just trying to let you know I don't push that! I have friends that won't go to Walmart! Because they were poor growing up! So now their sons in golf lessons at seven! I shop where I want too mainly amazon.com They bought (her parents) bobby and sally designer custom fit sunglasses from rodeo drive for their last Birthday! I'm not trying to trash them just trying to let you see the whole picture here! I'm a pragmatic giver...Too often I know!

#34 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:55 PM

"...My gifts to my son...got accidentally thrown out this past Christmas by accident...." Do you think it wasn't an accident? If so, why do you suppose your son would throw out your gifts (not one much several) on purpose? Or are you going to blame your DIL. I gotta say, I'm surprised you keep track of the gifts you give your son and even know they were thrown out. I don't think I'd know which of my gifts to my kids were thrown out, broken, lost, regifted. Sometimes I see glimpses of some things, other things I've given I guess I've never seen again. I'm sitting here thinking about it, and have to say I have no idea what the fate of my gifts to my sons are, specially if they are 27, and living in their own home 1200 from me. Give a gift and let it go. You'll be happier. "...I work so hard trying to find things for my kids at Christmas!.." This is nice. But work no harder than what feels privately good to you. It is hard to buy gifts for young men who seem to have everything and really don't want much--at least not from mom. My sons are hard to buy for too. We do the best we can. But again--watch the people pleasing. And the expectations of reward. You are working so hard (with an exclamation point!!!) for some reward, and it's not just to see his pleasure (altho I'm sure that's part of it). You are looking for something in return. Be honest with yourself what it is. Understand, you cannot buy love, loyalty or insurance against lonliness/abandonment/rejection with gifts. "...I always buy the same amount and spend the same amount on both of them!..." Both or them? Not all of them? I assume you are referring to your son and daughter? Or are you referring to your son and DIL? It's wonderful you spend the same on them both if it's your son and DIL. You are a good, kind woman. But don't spend more than you can afford, and don't make yourself crazy getting the perfect gift. There is no such thing. "...When they moved for my son to go to Law School I went with them because they asked me too and they got to pick out and buy furniture and we gave them the money so they could make the payments yet build their credit...." Would they have asked you if you didn't buy them anything? "...Our parents never helped us I sometimes think I should of let them struggle a little..." I think so too. At least then you'd know for sure whether you were invited for yourself or for your wallet. "...But they're both good people and we wanted to help!.." I'm a good person too. If I send you my address, will you send me money for furniture. I live in a resort area. You can come visit and I promise to be very grateful and appreciative of what you give me. My sons are good people too... Seriously, you gave them money to make payments so they could build their credit? Who's building the credit? You or them? Do you see you are infantalizing your son? HE needs to be the one to budget and build credit. He won't be able to sustain it if he doesn't build it himself. However, when you withdraw the money, he might 'need' you to help him clean up the mess he makes having never actually learned himself. Please let these young adults figure out adult tasks themselves. It's vital for their growth, happiness and self esteem. To be 27 and having your mommy tell you how to build credit is a problem. Either he doesn't need to know and you are being annoying; or he does need to know and you are about 10-15 years late with the lesson.

#35 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:56 PM

"...We also continued to pay our married sons car and insurance payments and sent them money to help them afford a nice townhouse because they could not afford that on her nursing salary..." Nurses do well. They would have managed. They were not the only married couple with one partner in law school. Did you ever think you deprived them of some good memories. My first place had a kitchen so small if you extended your arms you touched both walls. Pivot 45 degrees and you touched the other two walls. And it had palmetto bugs 2 inches long (flying roaches). One night I woke in the middle of the night to rustling--it was not a mouse or rat--but a ROACH? Once I looked out the only window and saw two people in the alley (this was Richmond VA). They exchanged clothing. I thought it was weird. Later someone less naive told me they were probably criminals of some kind on the run changing their description so they could get out of the area where they'd just commited a crime. It was colorful. I'd always grown up in beautiful upper middle class suburbs. This was very interesting to me. I didn't want it forever, but I'm glad I had it then. Stop protecting your son from reality. If they are poor students, let them be poor students. It won't kill them. "...Basically we are Very pragmatic givers! We knew Law school would be so stressful so we we wanted them living comfortably!..." I could question whether you were pragmatic or enabling and infantalizing. And what's wrong with stress? It's a good thing to learn to manage. How long are you going to buffer your sweet little baby boy from the realities of life, things like budgets, and stress, and being poor?

#36 BissellDIL

BissellDIL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:57 PM

Donna - you say this isn't about gifts with string attached, yet you are disappointed about the ring/dinner, house furnishings/no visits, school loans/moving far away. It sure sounds like you expect SOMETHING in return for all the help you've given. And for someone who claims it's not about the money, you sure do know a lot of financial details; how do you know your son's and DIL's salaries? And how do you know her parents' income? Unless you are their tax preparer, you know too much about their finances, and it's hurting your relationship.

#37 jaci

jaci

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2315 posts
  • Locationmountains

Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:59 PM

I really havent seen many harsh remarks, Donna. You may think I am being harsh now, but after reading your last response, I sense a lot of jealousy on your part. Excuse me if I am wrong, but why does it matter if they take their ENGRAVED wine containers with them? And I see nothing wrong with them living with her parents to save money for a house, as long as it worked for them, be happy!

#38 PhalenMum

PhalenMum

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 797 posts

Posted 06 July 2011 - 12:10 AM

so you're giving them OMGEVERYTHING and her parents are giving them OMGEVERYTHING... where in there does it say that these two young people are being allowed to do ANYTHING for themselves?!

#39 DonnaW

DonnaW

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 06 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

While I expected thoughts and inputs! I feel some what on trial here! Ginnie I did not keep track of his gifts! They had boxes in her garage while they were living there...His gifts and some of hers mostly his were shipped back to them because of the Luggage rules/restrictions. My son went looking for one of the items and was very upset and called me because the box got set to the street as garbage. BUT...my point was it's always happen to me or us! It's just kinda weird! I have not blamed them for like the video guy or been upset with them...I mentioned that maybe it's God's way of getting my attention as corny as that may sound! I wish I had found this message board 8 years ago! I would have like the input! I have never been closed minded and tend to blame myself first! And as far as Jealousy Ahhh.NO....I was trying to explain that I was NOT promoting "uppity" behavior! These people live in a tiny town not the big city and even in the Big city I have not seen people do that! LOL! I do think people are somewhat projecting on me! But I asked for input and will take what's useful! Ginni THANKS...you really seem to care... If only you women could of be here for me 8 years ado I could of spent all the money taking all of us on a cruse! OOOPs no that's being codependent and an enable! My Bad! LOL (0= I'm learning....I Like myself I Like my kids! Funny thing is my DIL is JUST LIKE ME in a lot of ways! And I'm flattered by that! I think if we all examined every move we made like people are examining me right now...People would be pretty frozen in their tracks...WE all try to do the best we can! As far as counseling...I go when necessary...of course if she's my age she will see more the MIL way and if she's young she will see the DIL way.... I don't like conflict and I hate for anyone to feel bad...I'm sure that is as mucg Bad if not more than good!

#40 Ginnie

Ginnie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1528 posts

Posted 06 July 2011 - 12:27 AM

"...Her parents are big on expensive dining and taking wine to dinners much more uppity even though our income is 4 times more than theirs!..." So? Are you going to start managing her parents' budget as well? And start watching the judgmental attitude. They are uppity? Then you don't like them? Well, if you don't like them because they are uppity and don't live within their means and don't do dinner properly or the way you think they should--why on earth are you hurt that you weren't invited to dinner when they bought the engagement ring? Do you understand the contradiction: you don't like these uppity people you disapprove of but are offended when they don't include you to dinner. Perhaps this attitude on your part is part of the reason they don't think to include you; do not ever assume people are unaware of someone else's disapproval and judgmentalism. People know and generally don't want to be around it. Something to think about. "...They registered for Waterford Crystal as wedding gifts! They buy English antiques from her cousins store!..." So wedding guests are only going to buy the waterford chrystal if they want to, and if they want to spend the money to buy the bride and groom chrystal why should you care? You bought them a house, a ring, furniture, and pay their car insurance for them. Heck, waterford chrystal is cheap compared to that. You are treading on thin ice here. As for buying from their cousin's antique store? Why do you care? Are they only allowed to get furniture from you? Or do you disapprove of her taste in english antiques? Or weren't you included in the selection? Or are you of the opinion you are in charge of their checkbook and should be the one to decide what they spend money on? Maybe if they weren't given car insurance, rings, furniture and a house, they wouldn't have the cash to buy furniture you don't approve of. Or is the 'they' her parents? You disapprove of how the parents' are spending their money. You can buy them furniture but how dare her parents do the same!!!! What are you upset about here? "...I mention this because I feel while we tried to help them out an make their life Easier Her Parents get to be the "fun" parents!..." You pay car insurance, they pay for english antiques? You are pragmatic, they are fun. They should be like you, pragmatic. How dare they get the kids things they want and which give them pleasure to give!!! Should they perhaps clear their purchases for the kids with you so you don't feel upstaged? This competitiveness and jealousy will cause a lot of damage in your relationship with your son and DIL and her family. You want to be one big happy family with everyone doing things together? Then drop the jealousy and competition. And again, examine why you are buying so much for them? To be the 'better' parents? You expect something back, and are frustrated that not only are you not getting it, but somehow DIL's parents seem to be winning. Why does their buying frustrate and upset you when it has NOTHING to do with you at all? You want to buy the fun stuff? Then buy the fun stuff and let your son purchase the basics of his own life: housing, education, transportation, engagement rings, stress relief, whatever.