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Grannygreensmith

Is this behaviour common in new parents nowadays?

742 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, agnurse said:

I worked in a Level 1 hospital with C-section capabilities. I don't think I EVER saw a birth that a midwife couldn't handle unless there was a pre-existing problem.

Midwives carefully select their patients for home birth. Usually they only accept low-risk, full-term moms. Many times they'll put an ambulance on call in case of a problem. If an issue develops they carry oxygen, IV equipment, and medications. (One midwife I heardrum about referred to herself as a "walking Level 1 hospital".) In our area to qualify for a home birth you must live within 30 minutes of a large urban center - usually even a stat C-section takes about 30 minutes to set up if you're in the hospital anyway.

Yep.  I *couldn't* use a birth centre, b/c my first child had been a c section, due to positioning. Never mind that I'd had a successful VBAC, still wasn't allowed.

Midwives are highly trained medical personel. 

As I said earlier, please do some research.

1 minute ago, agnurse said:

As far as visiting in the hospital there are several reasons why DS and DIL may not want company:

1. Most hospitals don't have active nurseries anymore unless baby needs special care. Baby is kept with Mom. Mom may not be up to having company.

2. Hospital stays for a normal vaginally birth are often 24 hours or less. There's a lot of teaching and recovery to be accomplished in that time.

3. On-demand breastfeeding is recommended. This means Mom and baby don't have a set schedule. Establishing breastfeeding can take several days and Mom needs to be available. Bottles are not recommended as they can cause nipple confusion. Some moms literally go around topless for days - obviously not up to having company.

Yep, again. I was out of the hospital less than 12 hrs after one birth. 

Mom's focus should be on taking care of baby. Dad's, on taking care of Mom and baby. Visitors, even as loving and well meaning as possible, don't help with that.

Here's what I mean:

If you went to visit, and Mom and baby were sleeping, and you didn't get a look at the new baby, would you be happy with that visit? Probably not, right?

If baby was feeding the majority of the time, again, not great for visiting.

If Mom preferred to snuggle baby, and refused to let others hold baby, are you going to be ok with that, or hurt?

Cause here's the thing: research has proven that Mom holding baby as much as possible, and *not* passing baby around is BETTER for both her AND baby. 

Baby doesn't *need* visitors. Especially heading into cold and flu season. Visitors don't actually benefit baby at all, esp in the early weeks. All baby needs is Mom and, to a lesser degree, Dad (esp if nursing is happening). A lot of parents choose to not have visitors until after baby has had their first needles, and has established some sort of routine.

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48 minutes ago, Grannygreensmith said:

I wasn't gossiping or being cruel. The sons Gf already knew the information I was passing on, as dil had told her personally before me. I felt it should have been me who was offended - I was the last to know! 

It is so strange that im being told to "not talk about this, even with people who already know about it" ... It's a happy thing! why on earth not? 

It is gossip if your son asked you not to repeat it. Gossip is not only about falsehoods or unknowns. Gossip can be just jibber jabbering about other peoples truths. He asked you not to talk. So, don't.

He asked you not to jibber jabber, do the right thing and keep his matters private. Stop.

ETA: I'll give you this, you go big, you've hit almost all the hot buttons.

Edited by JanelleK
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2 minutes ago, JanelleK said:

It is gossip if your son asked you not to repeat it. Gossip is not only about falsehoods or unknowns. Gossip can be just jibber jabbering about other peoples truths. He asked you not to talk. So, don't.

He asked you not to jibber jabber, do the right thing and keep his matters private. Stop.

Isn't passing 3rd party information on 'gossip'?

I'm confused how, if OP was asked to not discuss things, she was passing info on to anyone, b/c if she'd asked to do so, she would've been told no need, gf already knows.

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I think this may be (yet another) chapter of Mismatched Expectations. I'm sorry you are hurt by your DS/DIL's decision for privacy. I am a GM of 8....2 came recently from my son's recent marriage to a woman with 2 kids, he has 3 of his own so that's 5, DD has 1 and DSD (step dau) has 2....The 6 births were all different.

For GS #1 I was in the room at my DD's request. Her DH was too nervous to come to the "business" end of the bed, so I got to cut the cord and my face is the first he ever saw....its part our personal bond. GS#2 was a caesarean after a brutal 27 hour labor. They called when they got to the hospital to stay (I flew in the next day), but the labor was so protracted I got there before the birth...DIL's mom & I peeked thru a window into the OR and watched. GS#3 was a planned C/S for a breech presentation...we planned to be there after the birth, but she kept getting bumped due to emergencies so waited in the waiting room like civilized people. GG#1 I flew to DS' to watch the older child while they were in the hospital. I went to see the new girlie for a few minutes the day she was born, but didn't see her again until they came home. GG#2 the parents did let us know, partly because DSD called to tell me her water broke and wanted to talk it all over to build her confidence. we were not invited to the birth. We saw them in the hospital the next day....hospital staff needed to stick the baby's heel so I sent the parents on a walk around the hospital floor and I held the girlie while she had her blood test. GS #4 was similar to GG#1...DIL's mom & I got the older kids to school/day care then waited patiently in the waiting room until DS came out to share the details.

For my own 2 births, we didn't share the trip to the hospital....I didn't want ANYONE around other than DH. His parents lived 10h away, my mom was 3h away...I have babies like a peasant....3hrs 58min for #1, 3hrs 43min start to finish for #2...didn't need an audience. I didn't discuss either of my pregnancies much. The immediate families knew, which was fine, but I don't like being "discussed"....my life is my life, not the fodder for discussion. When someone asked I always answered the same way "I'm fine", which is the answer you should give when anyone asks about your son...."He's doing well thanks" (bean dip....)

Edited by Mame925

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9 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

For my own 2 births, we didn't share the trip to the hospital....I didn't want ANYONE around other than DH. His parents lived 10h away, my mom was 3h away...I have babies like a peasant....3hrs 58min for #1, 3hrs 43min start to finish for #2...didn't need an audience. I didn't discuss either of my pregnancies much. The immediate families knew, which was fine, but I don't like being "discussed"....my life is my life, not the fodder for discussion. When someone asked I always answered the same way "I'm fine", which is the answer you should give when anyone asks about your son...."He's doing well thanks" (bean dip....)

I'm the exact opposite. My *shortest* labour was 12 hrs. And that was kid #2. My longest was about 3 days. I just don't do labour and delivery well, LOL

We didn't tell anyone, other than whoever was minding the other kids. Wolf knew that his mother would have been hysterical if he'd let her know, and be calling the hospital continuously. Was not something either of us wanted to deal with.

Heck, he didn't even tell her we were expecting our youngest until after we'd found out it was a boy, and even then wasn't keen on it, b/c he figured (rightly) she wouldn't be pleasant about it.

It was only b/c I wanted to announce we were having a boy on FB, and had a cpl of his family members on my FB list that he finally told her. I was induced 3x, and MIL found out once Wolf was home and made calls that baby had arrived.

Once we were home, we closed ranks. Soonest we had visitors was 10 days or so. We were far too busy, getting to know this new person, kids adjusting, and myself recovering, to deal with hosting guests. 

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I had pneumonia while pregnant with #2....he showed 3 weeks early, I swear I coughed him out...My mom came after each birth. She kept up the house/laundry/cooking...but I felt great and didn't really need her there, but it made the little bit of hosting easier. She wasn't toxic then.

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1 minute ago, Mame925 said:

I had pneumonia while pregnant with #2....he showed 3 weeks early, I swear I coughed him out...My mom came after each birth. She kept up the house/laundry/cooking...but I felt great and didn't really need her there, but it made the little bit of hosting easier. She wasn't toxic then.

Oh, yuck. Being sick when pregnant is awful. 

I never had help at home, until the last two, Wolf took parental leave. 

But, being an introvert, having someone else in the house would've been hard on me, even if they were Mrs. Doubtfire and Mary Poppins rolled into one.

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4 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

But, being an introvert, having someone else in the house would've been hard on me, even if they were Mrs. Doubtfire and Mary Poppins rolled into one.

My cousin lived just down the road so she rescued me by taking Grandma off my hands for dinner and visits ....and after a week I called my sister to just take her away.

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1 minute ago, Mame925 said:

My cousin lived just down the road so she rescued me by taking Grandma off my hands for dinner and visits ....and after a week I called my sister to just take her away.

I don't do well with visitors for hours on a good day. An afternoon, once every cpl of weeks is about my limit. After having a baby? Staying, like, over night? Or even just for several hours?

I seriously would've cried.

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21 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

Isn't passing 3rd party information on 'gossip'?

I'm confused how, if OP was asked to not discuss things, she was passing info on to anyone, b/c if she'd asked to do so, she would've been told no need, gf already knows.

Yep, that's what I tried to say. Or at least I meant that.

Talking about someone who isn't present, about their personal information, is gossip. It seems as if Granny was trying to announce to the girlfriend, kinda for DS/DIL, only to find out that girlfriend already knew. Which means not only was she gossiping, she was going fully against what DS/DIL had asked her to do - not talk to others about their pregnancy.

 

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Thank you for your advice everyone, I can't say that I understand or necessarily agree with how this generation approach parenting, but I see its common for other grandmothers to stay out of their lives and take a big step back. Even though you are right - my expectation of being a grandmother was really very different. This is what I will try to do. 

as I said I've realy tried not to make comments to then, and I have written a lot above, but I wanted to bounce it off a group of like minded people to get  feed back - my apologies if it came across as a lot of issues or somewhat as a rant. I just am feeling anxious about making more mistakes with my daughter in law, and pushing her and my son further away.

 

I had a very strong mother in law myself, and me and my mother were close, so I would have never dreamed of excluding then this way, as I values and respected them and their help, but I do think it's a good thing that the fathers of today are more involved in their children's births and lives.

It's still honestly a little bit hard to comprehend for me.

Im going to keep researching all the points you have mentioned. 

I only have sons (although some step daughters) and I wonder - is it this difficult for mothers of girls too? when my third son was born my mother in law told me "a daughter is your daughter all of your life but a son will be lost when he gets a wife." Her words are very relevant to me now - I wonder what would have happened if I had a daughter : (

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My mom was only there when one of my sister's children was born. Now, my sister and her family live in New Zealand and we are in Canada. My BIL's mom lives with the family but I think she just dropped my sister at the hospital for DNe1 and I don't think she went at all with the other two.

TRIGGER 

With DNi my sister's membranes ruptured at 28 weeks and she spent 6 weeks on the hospital. DNi spent a couple weeks in NICU as she was born ~34 weeks but she's now 3 and is fine. Mom came to stay with the family for some time as DNe1 was only 3 and DNe2 was only 17 months so she thought they could use the extra help. I don't think she was there for the birth though.

Hubby and I would like to have more children and I don't think I'd want my parents there right then. FIL is VLC/CO so I for sure will not have him. MIL and SFIL live in England so I'd want to wait at least 3 months before they come due to different germs. DSD is almost 12 and might even be over at her mom's when I would have to go to the hospital so she might not even need care. If she did we have friends who could stay with her.

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@Grannygreensmith - Glad you raised these questions here, instead of arguing w/ DS and DIL! As you're noted, you're not the only GP who has faced/is facing these issues or has these concerns. Many GPs have come to these boards w/ the same kinds of questions.

IMO, PPs have given you excellent advice. Still, I have some thoughts to add...

I disagree w/ the idea that a baby is only an addition to the new parents' family unit or that it's not at all "about you.". IMO, each newborn is a happy (I hope) addition to the extended family, too, on both their mother's and father's side.  I'm w/ you there. And hey, it is about you, to some degree - you're becoming a GM, you're DS is having his first child, etc - all very exciting, IMO!

But the parents get to/have to decide what info to give out and when to allow others around their new baby. They need to do what they think is best for themselves and their own core family. Those concerns come first, I believe - everybody and everything else comes second.

Meanwhile, I recently had the experience of not knowing a new cousin was on the way till she was actually born and the parents made the announcement on FB.  It seems the parents felt there was too much talk about their 1st baby, both on FB and off - one aunt even announced the birth on FB before DS and DIL got a chance to do so themselves! So this time, they only told a handful of close relatives - the GPs, aunts and uncles - and swore them to secrecy until they were ready to make an FB their own FB announcement. I so understand this. As wonderful as FB is, I agree w/ Janelle that this kind of technology has caused a problem where L&D are concerned.

Also, I've heard of some parents keeping relatively quiet about a pregnancy if there's a problem or they think there might be. I hope this isn't the case w/ your DS and DIL and I don't mean to worry you. Just listing another reason why some parents prefer not to share the news w/ a lot of people or share all that much information.

Also, please remember, as PPs have said, back when we had our children, most people didn't know a newborn had arrived until after the parents called the GPs, etc. The specter of extended family filling the waiting room is relatively new and some parents, I think, are finding  the idea/experience overwhelming, for one reason or another.

As for birth center or home births, I hope it will ease your mind if I tell you that one of my DD's friends had her baby in a birth center (in water, etc.) and everything went fine. She and her DH say they would never do it any other way! Not for everyone, of course, but please trust DS and DIL to make the choice that works best for them.
 

 

 

Edited by RoseRed135
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P.S.  And sometimes, I think,  some parents go secretive when plan to do things very differently than many of their relatives did/do and they are trying to avoid upsetting them or dealing w/ a lot of questions/arguments. Even you, in all your excitement and joy, have "pressed for a due date" and tried to tell them how to announce the birth (announcing on FB is very common now, BTW). And though you were wise enough to hold your tongue about the possibility of a birth center, or at home birth, you're "shocked" and "scared" about it. (Perhaps it would have been better if they hadn't told you yet... sigh...) I'm sure you're not the only one who has expressed doubts about their plans. This may be the reason they wish to keep things under wraps as much as possible.

As for those "newborn baby cuddles," oh, I know what you mean. But again, the parents have a right to invite you (and others) to visit/see baby whenever they're ready (it might be sooner than you think). All I can say is, for your own peace of mind, please don't focus on the idea of "newborn baby cuddles." Rather, just think about meeting that new GC and "baby cuddles," in general. You'll get plenty of them, no doubt, if you respect/continue to respect the parents' wishes. :)

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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5 hours ago, Grannygreensmith said:

I wasn't gossiping or being cruel. The sons Gf already knew the information I was passing on, as dil had told her personally before me. I felt it should have been me who was offended - I was the last to know! 

It is so strange that im being told to "not talk about this, even with people who already know about it" ... It's a happy thing! why on earth not? 

But I'm a little confused here... If GF "already knew" DIL is pregnant, what info were you "passing on?"  Perhaps DS doesn't want you to relay any additional info he gives you, regardless if the person is one of those few who know about the pregnancy or not?

If you and GF were discussing info you both already had - and you knew you both had the same info - then I admit, I don't get why DS objected. But perhaps it's b/c he's concerned that people might be criticizing his and DIL's choices behind their backs? If so, I can understand his not liking the image of, say, one person exclaiming, "I can't believe they might have a home birth!" and the other agreeing, "I know, it's a terrible idea!" (Not suggesting that this is what you and GF were saying, just that this is the kind of this DS might be afraid of.) Personally, if this is the case, I think he's going too far in trying to control people's conversation, but I get why. 

Sigh... Granny, I get that it hurt to be the "last to know" and I'm so sorry about that.

Also, I know it's hard not to talk about this exciting coming event. But please, from now on, stick to talking about it here. :)

Edited by RoseRed135

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I think the "back in my day" argument about GP being present and super involved in a pregnancy and childbirth is a lot of evisionist history.

When I was born (early 80s) my mom and everyone she knew were only allowed one support person in delivery, and that was very new (same for my mil, who had my FIL present). Ultrasound technology was I hear dif and you certainly couldn't have guests. Prenatal care offered little in the way of detail. For example, gender reveal? That wasn't even readily available until my 2nd sibling was born in the mid-90s and not super reliable until my youngest sibling was born in the early 2000s. So what loss is being lamented here?

I also was very private about my pregnancies. I did experience a loss before getting pregnant with my oldest, and that absolutely colored my wishes about subsequent pregnancies, but I was also very put off by the behavior of the GP and family members surrounding us. Everyone wanted extremely personal information and to "feel included" to make themselves feel special and there was a huge disregard for my privacy (posting details of my pregnancy and delivery on Favebook wihout my permission), my physical autonomy (unwanted belly touching and inviting strangers to touch my belly). Wih the next born, we, like our son and DIL, answered questioned about my pregnancy with "fine." Which was true, I was fine. What I was NOT was entertainment for the extended family. Including the grandmas who typically responded to details about the pregnancy (uncomplicated and easy) with either anxiety, criticism, or endless push for more and more personal info.

I tried to be very open and sharing while pregnant with my oldest, but  it quickly became clear that other people expected to live their expectations for my pregnant and child, through me, at my expense. 

We did not announce either pregnancy on FB until the babies had arrived; our logic was that if someone either was not active enough in our lives that they were not specifically told of the pregnancy by one of us or a GP, then they didn't need to know. My MILs old work aquaintence living 1000 miles away, with whom she hasn't had a real conversation in 10 years, does not need to know I'm pregnant. 

Because I had lost a baby and am a very private person, I would have waited until after 20 wks to tell anyone, but I always showed early, so we told our parents around 15wks and did allow them to share the news....which was a compromise for me. I didn't want to announce that early but it was ok.

My mother behaved hidiously regarding my delivery, demanding to be present and informing me that she would show up anyway and that she had a right to be there, making scenes at both of my baby showers as she tried to enlist people to make me let her be there. I ultimately told her that if she showed up at my hospital room, I would have her removed by security and under no circumstances was she welcome at the hospital at all, ever. My husband and my doula are the only folks, apart from medical staff, present at my births. As I see it, only people who are useful and needed should be in a delivery room, and anxious spectator grandmothers, DM or MIL, don't qualify. I know you said you'd just like to be in the waiting room, but why? Why not just wait to come to the hospital/home when you're called? Let your DS and DIL have their baby, let them bond, let DIL recover a bit and nurse and have a shower, eat, and feel human again before entertaining guests who just want to hold he baby?

I had hospital births but delivered in water, with midwives,  and would deliver in a birth center if I had the option. Low risk births don't need heavy medical intervention to be safe.

I also did not want grandma help when I brought my babies home. I came into parenthood with a lot of baby care experience and breastfed, so handing off night feedings wasn't feasible. Also, I didn't find ANY of the grandmas to be helpful on my postpartum periods, bc they were so consumed with THEIR expectations and so overwhelmed with THEIR emotions and so prickly about being important and needed on their narrow terms that were all about themselves. 

Traditionally, a woman would often become a grandmother while still having younger children at home herself. She was not so removed from baby care and childbirth. She came to help, actually help, not be entertained or have her ego stroked by offering "help" that is, in fact, code for being underfoot and unhelpful in the name of feeling needed. That was my experience with my DM and mil and the experience of my of my peers. Not to mention things just change, something are done differently. These days, as with my MIL, 30 years separated her last birth and the birth of my oldest. Both mil, my own mother and most of our aunts of a similar age had very altered, rose colored memories of birth and infancy and their "advice" was not only outdated but based on remembered fantasy. My MIL also breastfed but seemed to have no memory of how often BF babies ate and we were constantly at war over her perception that I was "playing keep away" with "her grandchild" when all I was doing was feeding my days old newborn in my own home. I asked her once about sleep and she said she didn't remember her babies waking at night, ever. My FIL chimed in that they most certainly DID wake and MIL replied "oh, but waking with my babies was always a joy."

Not helpful. Thanks. Which is fine, except if I didn't ask for the grandmas experiences or opinion, I was excluding them and being disrespectful of their wisdom. Great.

It sounds like you want to be "included" as a spectator, as if this is some kind of carnival ride and that's not ok. Your expectations for how you get to interact with our DILs pregnancy, labor, and childbirth (all serious physical experiences for her and huge life change for your DS and DIL...not so much for you) are largely irrelevant. It's not happening to you directly...yes, your family is changing and becoming a GP is exciting and also a life change...but it's not  on par with the changes and risks associated with carrying/birthing a baby and becoming a parent.

Remember, their pregnancy a bd childbirth experience isn't about you. It just isn't. If you want to help, then be helpful, ask what is can do and listen, be respectful, be calm and relaxed and easy and  objective. You'll be the refreshing exception.

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Please understand that not being included is not the same as being excluded.  Excluded implies that you belong somewhere and you are being kept out. 

Here we are discussing the private medical information of your DIL.  Yes, it is about your grandchild, but before that it is their child and your DIL's body.  

The thing is, we have the ability today to have information in an instant.  That doesn't mean that we need to have information in an instant.  When I was born in the 80s, my parents called their parents from a pay phone at the hospital.  It was a BIG deal when my Dad got a car phone in the late 80s- the kind that was the size of a lunch box, had a cord, and needed to be plugged in all the time. 

When my oldest was born, I had a pager.  Calls were screened at the nurse's station and nobody could bother the laboring mom, unless they had my pager number. 

By the time my DD was born almost 10 years ago, cell phones were everywhere.  Texting was a pain in the butt, still using the number pad.  DH's phone was ringing constantly, all night long.  

Contrast this to today.  Are they really doing things differently, or is it a case of "they could call because they have their phones". 

 

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4 hours ago, Grannygreensmith said:

Thank you for your advice everyone, I can't say that I understand or necessarily agree with how this generation approach parenting, but I see its common for other grandmothers to stay out of their lives and take a big step back. Even though you are right - my expectation of being a grandmother was really very different. This is what I will try to do. 

as I said I've realy tried not to make comments to then, and I have written a lot above, but I wanted to bounce it off a group of like minded people to get  feed back - my apologies if it came across as a lot of issues or somewhat as a rant. I just am feeling anxious about making more mistakes with my daughter in law, and pushing her and my son further away.

 

I had a very strong mother in law myself, and me and my mother were close, so I would have never dreamed of excluding then this way, as I values and respected them and their help, but I do think it's a good thing that the fathers of today are more involved in their children's births and lives.

It's still honestly a little bit hard to comprehend for me.

Im going to keep researching all the points you have mentioned. 

I only have sons (although some step daughters) and I wonder - is it this difficult for mothers of girls too? when my third son was born my mother in law told me "a daughter is your daughter all of your life but a son will be lost when he gets a wife." Her words are very relevant to me now - I wonder what would have happened if I had a daughter : (

Hi! It's all really pretty simple- They are a different generation of parents and we are a different generation of grandparents- We have to manage to learn how to navigate the changes as do they- You mentioned social media- Our parents and grandparents didnt have to navigate social media and its impact did they? So really, any expectations regarding wanting anything to do with birthing being old school can be tossed out the window -- except for the baby of course- And I say that in all seriousness because regardless of all that has changed babies continue to be born, and it doesn't get any more old school than that!

My daughter gave birth at home and in the hospital- Neither is safer or more dangerous- Something can go right or terribly wrong in both places-

My son inlaw isn't lost and neither is his brother! Their mom is very much a part of their lives, big time!

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7 hours ago, Grannygreensmith said:

Not selfish as such, but birth can be so dangerous. If something was to go wrong, surely it's better for it to go wrong in a hospital surrounded by doctors? I'm worried that dil or the baby will be hurt or worse by having her baby at home.

Perhaps I should say that As a mother I can't imagine putting my babies life at risk so that I could have a more pleasant experience. 

 

You are having a hard time with this, so I don't want to "pile on", but I have to say, chances are they sensed you would react this way and it's part of why they didn't want to discuss it with you. Their baby, their choices. But I do suggest you do some research - it is not necessarily easier or more pleasant for the mom. "baby friendly" birth centers/hospitals are all about what is best for baby. What is best for baby is near constant contact with mom and dad and frequent breastfeeding. That means no sleep for Mom and Dad. Also, if you didn't breastfeed - it can be very painful at first. Mom is fully exposed while learning to get baby latched on - she does not want an audience for this. Mom is not at a spa. Sending baby to a nursery for someone else to feed, diaper & hold while they cry is much easier on Mom.

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2 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

But I'm a little confused here... If GF "already knew" DIL is pregnant, what info were you "passing on?"  Perhaps DS doesn't want you to relay any additional info he gives you, regardless if the person is one of those few who know about the pregnancy or not?

If you and GF were discussing info you both already had - and you knew you both had the same info - then I admit, I don't get why DS objected. But perhaps it's b/c he's concerned that people might be criticizing his and DIL's choices behind their backs? If so, I can understand his not liking the image of, say, one person exclaiming, "I can't believe they might have a home birth!" and the other agreeing, "I know, it's a terrible idea!" (Not suggesting that this is what you and GF were saying, just that this is the kind of this DS might be afraid of.) Personally, if this is the case, I think he's going too far in trying to control people's conversation, but I get why. 

Sigh... Granny, I get that it hurt to be the "last to know" and I'm so sorry about that.

Also, I know it's hard not to talk about this exciting coming event. But please, from now on, stick to talking about it here. :)

Thank you for your kind advice, rose red. I'm working hard to learn more and study. 

I didn't actually tell the gf anything she didn't know, or me either. But I suppose dil felt that we were gossiping and talking about her. Dil is closer to the gf than she is me, and I just admit I was hoping the gf would let some info slip. But generally we were just talking about how happy news it is etc, and about an upcoming doctors appointment dil has.  

One point my son did touch on was that "how do we know we can trust you?" Which I thought was ridiculous, but maybe in hindsight I can see why. 

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42 minutes ago, Grannygreensmith said:

Thank you for your kind advice, rose red. I'm working hard to learn more and study. 

I didn't actually tell the gf anything she didn't know, or me either. But I suppose dil felt that we were gossiping and talking about her. Dil is closer to the gf than she is me, and I just admit I was hoping the gf would let some info slip. But generally we were just talking about how happy news it is etc, and about an upcoming doctors appointment dil has.  

One point my son did touch on was that "how do we know we can trust you?" Which I thought was ridiculous, but maybe in hindsight I can see why. 

Don't assume that it's just your DIL that feels you were gossiping. Seems pretty clear, esp with, "How do we know we can trust you?" that your son feels that way, too.

So, you tried to announce the news for them, and when that didn't work, you tried to go around their boundary and pump the gf for more information than they'd given you.

You really do need to start respecting their boundaries. The more you push, the less you're going to get, and this will have a long term impact on the relationship you have w/your ds, DIL and gc.

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10 hours ago, SueSTx said:

 And I totally agree, wait for an invitation to meet the baby.  Our grandson is nearly 5 months old and we have only seen him three times.

I think Sue touched on something. Many GPs first visit the baby in the hospital for a few minutes, we always have (I do realize not all GPs see baby in the hospital). But when many new babies go home, no visitors come to the house for several weeks-months.

One GS was born in early June, about 3 months ago, we saw him 5 minutes in the hospital, he was crying and all scrunchy looking. Fast forward to Labor Day, DIL is likely feeling slightly better, they brought him out for Birthday cake and ice cream, we were surprised to see them. He was content/happy being worn by DIL and quite cute, not scrunchy looking. My advice, you have all the time in the world, don't start thinking you have a baby timeline. Your son and DIL have a baby timeline, while you sit quietly, wait patiently and color, no baby-grabbing.

PRY probably found the most obvious (once it's pointed out, below) your son suspected you'd react negatively, as you are. 

2 hours ago, PinkRedYellow said:

I have to say, chances are they sensed you would react this way and it's part of why they didn't want to discuss it with you.

2 hours ago, Grannygreensmith said:

One point my son did touch on was that "how do we know we can trust you?" Which I thought was ridiculous, but maybe in hindsight I can see why. 

The other thing that hits me is that your son may be fussing at DIL to keep you from being CO or VLC. Can you see how if he was advocating for you, found out you gossiped (going against their rule/boundary) he would say "how do we know we can trust you?"

1 hour ago, ImpishMom said:

Don't assume that it's just your DIL that feels you were gossiping.  Your son told you he disapproves.

You really do need to start respecting their boundaries. The more you push, the less you're going to get, and this will have a long term impact on the relationship you have w/your ds, DIL and gc.  THIS, in a nutshell.

ETA To the below - skipped said: If my son said something like that to me and if I really wanted to know the answer- I'd have to counter it with  "what do you mean how do you know if you can trust me. "   And listen to the answer.  GREAT idea, you know the answer, so listen.

I have to wonder if a lot of this secretness is due to relationship issues.  Mame- in your examples- if I recall correctly- you had relationship issues with both your ML and your mother.  I'm wondering how much that had to do with you limiting information.  It's not at all bad to keep your own information private and expect the same from others. So, if someone thinks being selective in dispensing information is a negative thing, well, they are wrong, imo. Loose lips and all.

 

Edited by JanelleK
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The "how do I know we can trust you" comment  would be a BIG red flag tome reagarding our relationship.  You know you can trust me because you've had x (insert the age of the AC) years of dealing with me- that's how you know.    Saying something like that means Obviously you DON'T trust me.  I'd have to examine myself and figure out if they have just cause to not trust me.   If my son said something like that to me and if I really wanted to know the answer- I'd have to counter it with  "what do you mean how do you know if you can trust me. "   And listen to the answer.

I have to wonder if a lot of this secretness is due to relationship issues.  Mame- in your examples- if I recall correctly- you had relationship issues with both your ML and your mother.  I'm wondering how much that had to do with you limiting information.

ETA- I think your problems are much worse than them refusing to give information about the baby..  Not trusing someone is a BIG issue.

Edited by skipped
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17 minutes ago, skipped said:

The "how do I know we can trust you" comment  would be a BIG red flag tome reagarding our relationship.  You know you can trust me because you've had x (insert the age of the AC) years of dealing with me- that's how you know.    Saying something like that means Obviously you DON'T trust me.  I'd have to examine myself and figure out if they have just cause to not trust me.   If my son said something like that to me and if I really wanted to know the answer- I'd have to counter it with  "what do you mean how do you know if you can trust me. "   And listen to the answer.

I have to wonder if a lot of this secretness is due to relationship issues.  Mame- in your examples- if I recall correctly- you had relationship issues with both your ML and your mother.  I'm wondering how much that had to do with you limiting information.

I'm sure it can have an impact, but I don't think that's always the case.

Some folks just prefer to keep medical info private.

Just b/c a woman is pregnant doesn't mean anyone else is entitled to details. She's still a person, not just an incubator. Folks wouldn't demand the details of her pap smear, or her regular check up...just b/c she's pregnant doesn't mean extended family gets to be privvy to all the details of her drs appts either.

I mean, this info train thing is fairly new. Wasn't that long ago that "We're pregnant!" was followed by, "Baby's here!" was the norm, b/c there *wasn't* other info to give. Heck, they weren't even *allowed* to say, 'pregnant' on TV that long ago (I Love Lucy, anyone?) Dads were left out in waiting rooms. Now, folks want to know gender, attend ultrasounds, etc. Even expect to be at the birth. I've had friends who's Moms got VERY upset that they chose *not* to find out the gender, even demanding that they get it written down, sealed in an envelope and given to *her*, so SHE would know, and she promised not to tell them. Like...what? Why would Grandma be entitled to know the gender when the parents don't?

I think folks, in general, have gotten used to more information, and a regular stream of it, and sometimes the fact that hey, this is someone's personal info gets lost in the eagerness/excitement of a new baby on the way. Thing is, "Everything is fine." *is* enough information, for anyone that isn't the woman's partner.

Myself, I'll never freaking forget a coworker, with whom I had a good relationship, asking how dialated I was. Uh, whut? My cervix is definitely NOT a topic for lunch room conversation, thanks.

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There is a worst case scenario here and then there is the best case scenario.

Part of the worst case scenario... you've mentioned before about 'Facebook stalking' your step daughter and finding out information, then have made the suggestion to your DH about fighting for grandparents rights, and have questioned siblings/relatives about her. Now, connect the dots and see how that looks to an outsider like your DIL and to your DS. You've looked nosey, have interrogated people and have seemed entitled to children you don't know. Worst case scenario is you've completely ruined trust with your DS with this and with more actions of questioning them, and talking behind dils back for hopes of slipping information. Not good. Yes you DS has years of trust with you, but trust is easily lost and hard to earn back. This can account for the secretiveness, the lack of trust, and keeping you at arms length. In order to protect themselves from you.

Best case scenario, DIL is just a private person. Perfectly normal, and even though you have years of experience with your DS it's good to keep in mind that you don't have that with your DIL. You have made some faux paus with questioning them, talking behind her back, voicing opinions.. but all can be fixed if you just respect the boundaries they BOTH have placed, stop the questioning, and lay back. Won't it be great when they give you info freely rather than you having to force it out of them? 

Lower expectations to nilch, and when you get more than nilch you can be pleasantly surprised and happy. Respect boundaries. Stop questioning. Stop opinions when not asked for them.

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