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RoseRed135

When did you first know you were going to have trouble w/ MIL/DIL/whoever?

73 posts in this topic

netty, I'm sorry you found our forums under your circumstances.  I really have no advice since you say you've tried counseling already.  Your son and his BMM are adults and should be able to fend for themselves, but that birthday girl granddaughter of yours is fortunate to have caring grandparents.

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14 hours ago, netty81 said:

I'm new to the site but needing support and guidance. Not sure where to start. Mine isn't a DIL.  She's still a fiance or babymama (BMM). She, my son and grandaughter (GD) moved back home with my husband and I when the GD was 6 mos old (she turns 4 today). The BMM obviously grew up being taught if you can get other people to do it for you or pay for it for you- let them.  They've never had my GD on a schedule, had soda or sweet tea in her sippy cup from day one since she could hold one, gave her so much candy and junk food she won't eat real food.  When she did give her vegetables they were smothered with butter and pancake syrup. Last week GD was put under to have 8 cavities taken care of. I had to finally potty train 4 months ago while they went on a 3day vacation. They keep her up until at least 10pm so she'll sleep late the next day until around 10:30 then it's my son that gets up with her.  (He's not working currently so he and my husband can remodel a house we bought to move them out). BMM sleeps until around 1 or 1:30pm. She doesn't brush her hair or wash her face, only changes her panties after a bath.  She's never in the 3.5 yrs ever ran the vacuum, dusted or done anything to help around the house. She recently started working at a daycare facility (ironic) and was able to take the GD for free.  She took her one day and because GD hasn't been around people because BMM hasn't worked, GD cried in fear until my son had to pick her up.  BMM decided she's not going back to any daycare/preschool until she HAS to go to kindergarten where she won't have to listen to her cry.  I can't convince her that she'll be hurting GD terribly by doing that. My son avoids any confrontations in his life and this is one of them. SInce they're not married I thinks he's afraid she'll take the baby and run, so he keeps quiet.  I could go on and on.  I've tried counseling to get through this. I realize it could be a lot worse but this is killing me just the same.  Anyone out there in a similar situation?

 

Back again, netty. And quoting again, so I can look at what you said while  I'm replying. As you can see, I've bolded some points I especially want to respond to.

Bless you and DH (dear husband) for having taken DS and family in when, as I take it, there was a need. Like Sue, I think, by now, DS and BMM should have figured out how to "fend for themselves." However, since DS is working w/ DH to remodel that house and BMM is now working, too,  they might feel they are "earning their keep." They also may feel DS is "doing his part" by helping to set things up so they can move out. IMO,  it's wonderful that you and DH are willing and able to provide this opportunity for them and GD.

It's clear that you're horrified by many of the choices DS and BMM are making.  And I can see why. Ordinarily, I would say that how they choose to feed their child or arrange her sleeping schedule etc. is totally up to them. They wouldn't be the first parents I ever heard of who kept their baby up late/let their baby sleep late in the morning if they could/preferred to sleep later, etc. But that diet is terribly unhealthy, no doubt! And OMG -  8 cavities in one session! Plus having to put the child "under!" Totally OTT (over the top)!

Have you asked DS and BMM if they plan to do anything different about tooth care now? If not, would you feel comfortable asking them? Even if they don't plan on changing GD's diet... sigh... perhaps they'll take her to the dentist more often, so that they can catch any cavities one or two at a time? I realize that's just the tip of this iceberg, but even that would be an improvement for now, IMO. It doesn't seem likely you can "convince" them of anything, and trying to will probably only create tension. But, hopefully, asking a question would be ok.

I'm not sure how you know so much about BMM's personal hygiene. Is it that obvious? But as far as her failing to vacuum, etc, have you ever asked her to do any household chores? TBF, she might think you don't want this - some people don't like others to do the chores in their home. Then again, she might just think it's a good idea to let "other people do it for you." If that's the case, maybe she "waits" to see if someone will ask. Again, of course, this depends a lot on how well you two interact.

So sorry that counseling doesn't seem to have helped. Perhaps members here can instead. There are definitely others here who have had AC (adult children) and family move in w/ various conflicts as a result. And, hopefully, something in Sue or words will prove helpful, too, even though neither of us are in this same situation.

Sorry, too, that you're going through this. But glad you brought your concerns here - probably better than trying to argue about these issues w/ DS or BMM. (((Hugs!)))

 

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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She recently started working at a daycare facility (ironic) and was able to take the GD for free.  She took her one day and because GD hasn't been around people because BMM hasn't worked, GD cried in fear until my son had to pick her up.  BMM decided she's not going back to any daycare/preschool until she HAS to go to kindergarten where she won't have to listen to her cry.  I can't convince her that she'll be hurting GD terribly by doing that.

It sounds as if BMM is being incredibly selfish here - more concerned about her own discomfort than helping GD learn to socialize w/ her little peers. Or could it be that she feels more deeply for her child than you think? After all, there must be other kids at daycare who cry for one reason or another, and, apparently, BMM can stand that.

Regardless, it definitely seems, as you suggest, that GD needs to be around other people more, especially other kids.  Is there a nearby park/playground where she could meet/see other kids sometimes? If so, perhaps you and/or DS (when he's not working on the house) could take her there while BMM is at work?

I had to finally potty train 4 months ago while they went on a 3day vacation.

While later potty training doesn't seem to be so unusual today, DS and BMM appear to be somewhat neglectful, overall. TG the child has you in her life!

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12 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

It's clear that you're horrified by many of the choices DS and BMM are making.  And I can see why. Ordinarily, I would say that how they choose to feed their child or arrange her sleeping schedule etc. is totally up to them. They wouldn't be the first parents I ever heard of who kept their baby up late/let their baby sleep late in the morning if they could/preferred to sleep later, etc. But that diet is terribly unhealthy, no doubt! And OMG -  8 cavities in one session! Plus having to put the child "under!" Totally OTT (over the top)!

Have you asked DS and BMM if they plan to do anything different about tooth care now? If not, would you feel comfortable asking them? Even if they don't plan on changing GD's diet... sigh... perhaps they'll take her to the dentist more often, so that they can catch any cavities one or two at a time? I realize that's just the tip of this iceberg, but even that would be an improvement for now, IMO. It doesn't seem likely you can "convince" them of anything, and trying to will probably only create tension. But, hopefully, asking a question would be ok.

 

I'm not sure how you know so much about BMM's personal hygiene.

 

 

I actually started paying for regular dental checkups know they weren't brushing. Two cavities were found at that time. They at least started brushing after that and SOME of the candy stopped.  It was a the preop xray prior to fixing them that they found the other cavities.

Actually is was my GD personal hygiene I was referring to.  The BMM doesn't do these things for the GD- brush hair, wash face or make her change her little panties every day.

To be fair, NO I haven't spoken to BMM about helping around the house.  I was raised to just pitch in and help with what you could. Guess I just take it for granted that it should be human nature to do so.

 

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5 hours ago, netty81 said:

I actually started paying for regular dental checkups know they weren't brushing. Two cavities were found at that time. They at least started brushing after that and SOME of the candy stopped.  It was a the preop xray prior to fixing them that they found the other cavities.

Actually is was my GD personal hygiene I was referring to.  The BMM doesn't do these things for the GD- brush hair, wash face or make her change her little panties every day.

To be fair, NO I haven't spoken to BMM about helping around the house.  I was raised to just pitch in and help with what you could. Guess I just take it for granted that it should be human nature to do so.

 

This young woman was obviously raised in a very different way from you. That said, your DS should be the one to tell her she should be pitching in as an adult in the household at least to take care of their laundry, sleeping areas, cleaning the bathroom and making sure their stuff is controlled in the common areas of the house. If he hasn't/won't, you'll need to just draw her in and let her know what she needs to do. 

For your little GD, I'm so happy she has you....are you able to go to 'story time' at the local library? This would be a way to start exposing her to other groups of kids. She most likely will bloom quickly from a safe environment, maybe even arrange a playdate with one child from that group at a park so she starts gaining confidence from a small group situation. Since you had to potty train, just keep going with personal hygiene...start teaching her grooming skills.

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5 hours ago, netty81 said:

I actually started paying for regular dental checkups know they weren't brushing. Two cavities were found at that time. They at least started brushing after that and SOME of the candy stopped.  It was a the preop xray prior to fixing them that they found the other cavities.

Bless you for paying for the dental checkups! And glad DS and BMM have improved their care of GD's teeth/health. Wish it could be better, but, IMO, even this much change is worthwhile.

Actually is was my GD personal hygiene I was referring to.  The BMM doesn't do these things for the GD- brush hair, wash face or make her change her little panties every day.

Sorry I misread this part earlier ^^^.  IDK whether BMM is lazy or simply has some different standards than you do. I know it must hurt and frustrate you to see GD go w/o changing her panties for a day or two and w/ messy hair, etc.... sigh... But as long as the overall health issues are being taken care of (teeth, diet), you probably need to let these other things go. If any serious problems arise (I hope not), of course, that's a different story.

To be fair, NO I haven't spoken to BMM about helping around the house.  I was raised to just pitch in and help with what you could. Guess I just take it for granted that it should be human nature to do so.

Well, I guess it's not in everybody's nature, certainly not BMM's.  Would you feel comfortable asking her to take on a few household chores? Come to think of it, since she and DS both now work outside the home (BMM at the daycare center, DS on the house), perhaps you could ask him to pitch in, too (unless he already does)? In fact, perhaps, at some point, you, DH, DS and BMM could all sit down and work out a household task chart.  But you might want to see how DS and BMM react to the idea of pitching in first/if you get any resistance to this request.

Here's hoping things get better over time...

 

 

 

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But you might want to see how DS and BMM react to the idea of pitching in first/if you get any resistance to this request.

I got resistance from my kids when they were kids....I told them that everyone who lives here is automatically responsible for helping with the upkeep of our home and that it would be the same when they have roommates or have their own homes. Everyone participates. There is no maid service. Everyone worked in our house (DH & I had jobs, kids' job was doing well in school) so everyone had to help make it work. 

You will get resistance. Stand your ground.

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I thought it was after our family only small wedding, both of ours second marriage, with all of our children when afterwards she would not go eat with all of us, but, invited my husbands kids to go with her and my sil, I've since learned it was earlier when my DH and I were dating and I gave her a beautiful set of picture frames for her Birthday that she had written me a thank you note which said she would be thinking of just the perfect photos and perfect spot for them, only to have them out for display, proudly in the guest bathroom with photos of my husbands ex wife !  

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Well, that sure sent a "message".

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I'm a new member, starting today. The first time I saw warning signs, was when my pregnant dil and I was at a department store and I was looking at a car seat for my car. She said casually, "I don't think you're going to need one" I didn't reply, as not to say the wrong thing. I'd never had a wreck, nor a speeding ticket. 

That was 11 years ago, and sure enough, I was never allowed to drive with my granddaughter while she was a baby. I have, however, got to drive with her 2 times after she got older. 

 

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Welcome Mimi...I have driven often with DD's daughter and never with either of DILs two which is fine with me.  I can't imagine the guilt if something did happen.  I'd rather not take the risk.

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On 3/11/2017 at 7:43 PM, Tired2 said:

I thought it was after our family only small wedding, both of ours second marriage, with all of our children when afterwards she would not go eat with all of us, but, invited my husbands kids to go with her and my sil, I've since learned it was earlier when my DH and I were dating and I gave her a beautiful set of picture frames for her Birthday that she had written me a thank you note which said she would be thinking of just the perfect photos and perfect spot for them, only to have them out for display, proudly in the guest bathroom with photos of my husbands ex wife !  

Wow.

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14 hours ago, Mimitomyangels said:

I'm a new member, starting today. The first time I saw warning signs, was when my pregnant dil and I was at a department store and I was looking at a car seat for my car. She said casually, "I don't think you're going to need one" I didn't reply, as not to say the wrong thing. I'd never had a wreck, nor a speeding ticket. 

That was 11 years ago, and sure enough, I was never allowed to drive with my granddaughter while she was a baby. I have, however, got to drive with her 2 times after she got older. 

 

Delighted to have you join us Mimi!

It must have been very disappointing to realize you weren't going to get to drive your then-baby GD anywhere. I'm sorry about that, but glad you've gotten to drive her since then.

Please rest assured it's not unusual for new moms to prohibit anyone from driving baby, except for themselves and the dad, no matter how clean their driving record. You were not alone. We hear about this often on this site. My own DD (dear daughter) wouldn't let me drive either of her kids while they were infants. My own DM (dear mom) avoided letting anyone but her and my dad drive us kids anywhere till we were about 16, I have a cousin who was the same way. Hopefully, the driving issue is the biggest one you'll ever have w/ DIL. :)

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On 2/15/2017 at 2:23 PM, ImpishMom said:

Ah. I don't make that leap. To me, "No man will ever control me again." is on par with, "No man will ever abuse me again." It doesn't translate into the person saying that as becoming controlling or abusive themselves.

In general I agree with you.  However, I can see Justa's side in this because that is EXACTLY how my MIL was.  Her marriage to FIL was by all accounts and absolute train wreck. (Twice.)  And while I've gotten different versions from different people based on their perspectives, I think Its a reasonable statement to say that there was some verbal abuse, probably on both sides.  But I can see truly that she was controlled and abused in some ways, truthfully.  I don't actually doubt that.  

HOWEVER, now she uses the "No one will ever control me again." as an excuse to have complete and utter control over anyone else.  At this point "Controlling" her means the same thing as Not letting her have control.  If we set up a boundary we were trying to control her.  If we said no to a visit, we (Okay evil DIL ME) were being controlling. 

I'm not trying to discount what she probably went through with FIL, I'm sure it was damaging.  However, 20+ years ago it is still her excuse to treat everyone basically like garbage.  If ever called on the way she speaks to people its "Well, I was never that way until I met FIL." and that was the end of it, that made it okay. Perhaps if she had actually had some therapy she could have been in a different situation, but she feels therapy is for crazy people so will not ever do it.  We haven't had contact with her in almost 6 years but from what I'm hearing, absolutely nothing has changed other than she sounds to have gotten more aggressive.  

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Now to answer the actual question of this thread:

Its actually ridiculous how many signs there were, how many things I should have picked up on.  Its embarrassing, honestly.

1. Her indifference when DH told her we were getting married.  Followed up the next day at her irritation about us getting married when there really was no reason to get married. (Because I wasn't pregnant.  Why would you need to get married if you aren't pregnant?)

2. Her showing up at my house telling me what to clean, how to clean (Standing there watching me do it.) How to cook, what I was doing wrong.  (Keeping in mind I worked full time and her son lived there as well.  Of course cooking and cleaning needed to be my responsibility.)  

3. Calling me on my 5 year wedding anniversary to let me know how unfair it was that I hadn't had children yet.  Everyone was waiting on me to grow up and be ready because they knew DH was ready, and he deserves to have kids.  That by 5 years it had just gotten ridiculous.  (We were trying but having fertility problems so this conversation was especially enjoyable for me.) I sat and listened like an idiot.  And for some reason thought things would be better with her when I had kids.  AHAHAHAHA.  

 

So those are some of the times I SHOULD have realized what I was dealing with .  The thing that made me ACTUALLY made me realize what i was dealing with:

ODD was 4 months old and had just started rolling.  DH went to change a messy diaper. (We have a policy for diaper changes.  Whoever touched the kid last bears the responsibility of the diaper.  Parent wise, of course, we don't extend this to others.)  So he changed her in her crib, but had not gotten used to the fact that she could roll.  SO as I'm sure you guessed, there was a bit of a mess.  Frankly, I started to crack up, I thought it was funny.  But MIL was over and she just laid into him.  Called him a "piece of *something gross* " " a loser", "this is something your father would have done done." and just went on and on for about 5 or 10 minutes.  Finally reigned herself in and said she had taken things too far and she was sorry.  But honestly the fact that NO ONE thought this was odd (DH and both BILs were there as well.)  or even seemed disturbed about it was so telling to me.  Such a huge reaction over something so completely minor (not to mention something that didn't affect her at all, its not like I would have had her clean the mess up.)  I realized then that she was far less balanced than I realized.

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When she tried to mold me into a mini her without regard for who I am and what my likes and dislikes are. Second time I met MIL she had bought me a leopard print top, and wet look jeans. She continued doing this for a long time, even though I always said "thats sweet, but this isn't my style, thanks". She STILL does this, and I have NEVER taken a single item of clothing she's bought for me, because they are not for me - they are for some fantasy DIL she still thinks one day will magically appear instead of me, her quiet, distanced DIL who prefers black clothes.

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On 2017-04-05 at 4:11 PM, Mimitomyangels said:

I'm a new member, starting today. The first time I saw warning signs, was when my pregnant dil and I was at a department store and I was looking at a car seat for my car. She said casually, "I don't think you're going to need one" I didn't reply, as not to say the wrong thing. I'd never had a wreck, nor a speeding ticket. 

That was 11 years ago, and sure enough, I was never allowed to drive with my granddaughter while she was a baby. I have, however, got to drive with her 2 times after she got older. 

 

Generally speaking, unless you're a parent, or regular child care provider, you wouldn't need a carseat. Has nothing to do with your ability as a driver, but simply not something that would be used, or used frequently enough to justify the expense. And since they expire, why buy something that would simply collect dust?

I genuinely can't think of the last time my kids were in a vehicle driven by anyone but my husband. It's not about not trusting ppl, but I'm at home so it's just not something that's come up, since a sitter isn't needed, and if it is, my eldest dd is at home still.

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I've always been a hands on grandma, but never thought to buy a car seat for my car. I didn't drive anyone around until they were at least two...just never came up. Now car seats are moved from the parents' cars to mine for the littles. I did buy a booster when #1 was ready for it since it fit easily in the trunk when not in use...

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Posted (edited)

On 4/5/2017 at 9:11 PM, Mimitomyangels said:

I'm a new member, starting today. The first time I saw warning signs, was when my pregnant dil and I was at a department store and I was looking at a car seat for my car. She said casually, "I don't think you're going to need one" I didn't reply, as not to say the wrong thing. I'd never had a wreck, nor a speeding ticket. 

That was 11 years ago, and sure enough, I was never allowed to drive with my granddaughter while she was a baby. I have, however, got to drive with her 2 times after she got older. 

 

Hi Mimi! I'm a DIL as well and if my PILs ever suggest buying a car seat, I will tell them the same. To me, it just comes with a whole set of expectations that the grandparent will be a regular babysitter, and I believe if that's not the case, the grandparent will begrudge the parents for buying a car seat that is never used - when the parents never agreed to anything of the sort. 

I have a 2 year old nephew that I sometimes babysit, and when I do, I just take his mom's car to drive him, and let her take mine. Honestly, it would be such a hassle to have a car seat permanently installed in my car when it's so rarely used!

I really don't think this is something you should take personally or a sign of trouble to come. Most young parents feel this way.

Edited by Bluesdetoi

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The first time I realized MIL was going to be an issue wasn't when she went completely nuts when we were planning our wedding demanding that the wording on the wedding invitation be what she wanted, that she sing at the wedding, that her golden child be the best man and MC ... basically that the wedding focus on her and her by proxy as much as possible, it actually happened a long time before, when my wife and I were still dating and I barely knew MIL / FIL at all having only met them a handful of times ...

MIL had borrowed a bunch of photographic slides from someone in a neighboring city (90 minutes drive away). This person needed their slides back and MIL heard that I knew them (they were an acquaintance of my parents). The conversation that followed was too bizarre for words;

MIL: I hear you know SlidePerson.

dm1984: Yeah, I've met him a couple of times.

MIL: I've borrowed some slides from him and need to return them, could I give them to you and you return them when you see him next ?

dm1984: The last time I saw him was over 5 years ago, I really don't see him socially at all.

MIL: But if I gave them to you, you could just drive over and return them ?

dm1984: I mean, I could, but that's a long drive, I don't have any reason to be in CityX.

MIL: But if you don't do it, then I'll have to !

dm1984: ....

I was stumped. I still can't follow her `logic'.

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Posted (edited)

This "type" of person has no logic other than do what I asked...because I don't wanna.  (And, yes to them it was a request not a demand and you really want to follow through because you are so nice.)

Edited by SueSTx

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On 3/11/2017 at 4:43 PM, Tired2 said:

I thought it was after our family only small wedding, both of ours second marriage, with all of our children when afterwards she would not go eat with all of us, but, invited my husbands kids to go with her and my sil, I've since learned it was earlier when my DH and I were dating and I gave her a beautiful set of picture frames for her Birthday that she had written me a thank you note which said she would be thinking of just the perfect photos and perfect spot for them, only to have them out for display, proudly in the guest bathroom with photos of my husbands ex wife !  

Good one, my knowledge came from similar incidents!

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1 hour ago, Hamary said:

Good one, my knowledge came from similar incidents!

I am so sorry, yet relieved to know I'm not alone!

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