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RoseRed135

Strained and broken relationships... sigh...possible triggers

52 posts in this topic

Is your relationship w/ your AC (adult children) and/or CIL (children-in-law) strained or broken? Or, conversely, do you have a strained  or broken relationship w/ your parents/PILs (parents-in-law)? Perhaps you find yourselves arguing or offending each other a lot? Or maybe you or they have cut back on contact? Perhaps you even fear you're on the verge of total estrangement? Or??

And, if you will, how does this impact the GP/GC relationship, if at all?

Edited by RoseRed135

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My daughter and I had very comfortable, close relationship until the last two/three years.  She had her first child four years ago.   Since she's had her little girl and of course the in-laws live next-door, they are Italian have a cult family atmosphere.  She has now become distant and alienated to our family. All of the traditional things we had no longer exist with them.  It is always about the Ilatian inlaws.  We still do traditions with my other daughter but she has a little girl the same age as this daughter little girl, who's alienated and the Italian family are trying to separate them too. They are very secretive, manipulative, controlling and we truly believe  they have brainwashed her. I was at her home a few years ago when her husband made very negative comments about her girlfriends. In fact one came to see her, who lived four hours away, and he did not want her in the house because he doesn't like her. we see the situation getting worse and more isolation on their part. We really don't know what to do because they're trying to keep our grandchildren distant from us too. However, it is our daughter who is doing this now.

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10 hours ago, Baz45 said:

My daughter and I had very comfortable, close relationship until the last two/three years.  She had her first child four years ago.   Since she's had her little girl and of course the in-laws live next-door, they are Italian have a cult family atmosphere.  She has now become distant and alienated to our family. All of the traditional things we had no longer exist with them.  It is always about the Ilatian inlaws.  We still do traditions with my other daughter but she has a little girl the same age as this daughter little girl, who's alienated and the Italian family are trying to separate them too. They are very secretive, manipulative, controlling and we truly believe  they have brainwashed her. I was at her home a few years ago when her husband made very negative comments about her girlfriends. In fact one came to see her, who lived four hours away, and he did not want her in the house because he doesn't like her. we see the situation getting worse and more isolation on their part. We really don't know what to do because they're trying to keep our grandchildren distant from us too. However, it is our daughter who is doing this now.

Hi again, Baz! Your worry for DD and your relationship w/ her and GD comes through your post, and I truly feel for you. Some of my relatives have married into families that are Italian or half-Italian, including my ODD, and they've always seemed warm and welcoming, as far as I could see. So this "secretive"... "cult family atmosphere" may be specific to SIL's FOO (family of origin). That doesn't make your concerns any easier, I know.

I understand that it must be disappointing to have DD drop all your family traditions. If it's any comfort, we have had other parents come here and say this about their adult DDs or DSs. I'm not clear on whether she and SIL only do his FOO's traditions now or whether they have created their own, as some young families do. Either way, you seem to feel she has been "brainwashed" into it, but is it possible she chose to make these changes for whatever reasons she might have?

SIL's not wanting DD to have her friend in the house is a red flag, no doubt. His FOO's trying to "separate" the 2 cousins is alarming, too, though I'm not sure how they can do this w/o the parents' consent.

Regardless, when it's all put together, it looks bad. But I'm not sure there's much you can do about it except wait for DD to decide for herself that this situation isn't right for her or GD.

For now, all I can suggest is to tread lightly. According to what you said in the other conversation, if I understood correctly, you still get to see DD and GD. Please don't do anything that might disrupt that. In fact, as I mentioned in the other thread, I think it's probably best not to ask for more time w/ them or voice any concerns, at this point (if that's what you have been doing), as difficult and counter-intuitive as this may be. I'm afraid it just might just lead to their cutting back time w/ you and yours even further. Better to zip your lip, IMO (perhaps you already do) and just enjoy whatever visits you have w/  DD and GD. I say this not just b/c I know you want them in your lives, but b/c they may need you if DD ever decides that this isn't working and she wants out for good.

Please keep us posted...

Edited by RoseRed135
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13 hours ago, Baz45 said:

My daughter and I had very comfortable, close relationship until the last two/three years.  She had her first child four years ago.   Since she's had her little girl and of course the in-laws live next-door, they are Italian have a cult family atmosphere.  She has now become distant and alienated to our family. All of the traditional things we had no longer exist with them.  It is always about the Ilatian inlaws.  We still do traditions with my other daughter but she has a little girl the same age as this daughter little girl, who's alienated and the Italian family are trying to separate them too. They are very secretive, manipulative, controlling and we truly believe  they have brainwashed her. I was at her home a few years ago when her husband made very negative comments about her girlfriends. In fact one came to see her, who lived four hours away, and he did not want her in the house because he doesn't like her. we see the situation getting worse and more isolation on their part. We really don't know what to do because they're trying to keep our grandchildren distant from us too. However, it is our daughter who is doing this now.

These things can be very bittersweet when they take place, when traditions change, when people change, when anything changes that we find ourselves feeling sad about- By default we tend to blame others for changes at times when really its just part of life, part of personal growth -- even when mistakes are made or the wool gets pulled over our eyes- We all miss the way someone was, miss them because they died, because they grew up or grew old or even into someone we no longer recognize- You can take refuge in or find comfort in the fact that everyone experiences such dissapointments- You're not alone- :)

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It is difficult to explain the whole situation. Our daughter has come to us  early on in her marriage telling us if we help her with anything, yardwork, or  needs in the house we can't tell her husband, she said he uses it against her. Anything we do is always overtaken by the in-laws.  When our daughters dog died,,who was really her buddy, she called me up a few days later to tell me she isolated her dog for the last two years because her husband didn't want him around. He has done this with several of her friends she's down to maybe two. She would  early on in her marriage tell us, that she had to constantly fight for us. Her little girl not even three was running away from home they had a put a clip lock on the door to stop her from running. During that time she told me in private that her mommy and daddy aren't nice. We don't know how much they've been fighting. Unfortunately, she had him on speaker phone in her car, several times, and I've heard him violently yelling at her and eventually took him off speaker phone. Tradition's are fine but we can't even have a Sunday dinner because every Sundays obligated to the in-laws, every weekend is obligated to some party of the in-laws, her husband never wants to come over to our house and if he is here he's constantly on the phone with his parents. We took them all on a cruise. We weren't even on the boat few hours, and his mother had to buy minutes to talk to him while on the cruise. It's control control control and they have done this to our daughter.  They have literally taken over her life, where she can't make decision.  Most the time now when she talks abusively, we feel it's coming out of his mouth. There is a neighbor that has known both our daughters since third and fifth grade. She is so afraid of the  in-laws that she stays her distance. She helped get our son-in-law's sister out of the house into a battered woman shelter, because of the emotional, physical, sexual abuse.  As I said there's a lot more to this issue. 

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I'm sorry there is even an issue, BUT if she has helped her own sister-in-law get into a shelter, she does know how to remove herself from the same situation.  Many times we hear that a woman just didn't know how to go about leaving.

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On 4/3/2017 at 4:37 AM, Baz45 said:

It is difficult to explain the whole situation. Our daughter has come to us  early on in her marriage telling us if we help her with anything, yardwork, or  needs in the house we can't tell her husband, she said he uses it against her. Anything we do is always overtaken by the in-laws.  When our daughters dog died,,who was really her buddy, she called me up a few days later to tell me she isolated her dog for the last two years because her husband didn't want him around. He has done this with several of her friends she's down to maybe two. She would  early on in her marriage tell us, that she had to constantly fight for us. Her little girl not even three was running away from home they had a put a clip lock on the door to stop her from running. During that time she told me in private that her mommy and daddy aren't nice. We don't know how much they've been fighting. Unfortunately, she had him on speaker phone in her car, several times, and I've heard him violently yelling at her and eventually took him off speaker phone. Tradition's are fine but we can't even have a Sunday dinner because every Sundays obligated to the in-laws, every weekend is obligated to some party of the in-laws, her husband never wants to come over to our house and if he is here he's constantly on the phone with his parents. We took them all on a cruise. We weren't even on the boat few hours, and his mother had to buy minutes to talk to him while on the cruise. It's control control control and they have done this to our daughter.  They have literally taken over her life, where she can't make decision.  Most the time now when she talks abusively, we feel it's coming out of his mouth. There is a neighbor that has known both our daughters since third and fifth grade. She is so afraid of the  in-laws that she stays her distance. She helped get our son-in-law's sister out of the house into a battered woman shelter, because of the emotional, physical, sexual abuse.  As I said there's a lot more to this issue. 

Wow. No wonder you're worried. My heart aches for you! (((Hugs!)))

It definitely sounds as if DD's ILs are controlling. in fact, IMO, they may fit the description of "engulfers " outlined in the book Toxic Inlaws:Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage.. These types of families try to live as if their AC (adult children) never grew up, moved out, got married. And they try to pull their CIL (children inlaw) deep into their suffocating (my word) family dynamic. I'm afraid this is what DD is dealing with and that, unfortunately, they have succeeded, at least for now.

I can see why they seem like a "cult" to you. You're right, IMO, this kind of family is very cult-like.

Sadly, too, DD got away from this several times, only to return, according to what you told us in the other thread. I'm no psychologist, but from what I've read/heard, women often do this (perhaps men, too,) IDK if it's just b/c they still love the guy (there must be something DD "sees" in SIL or she never would have connected w/ him in the first place), b/c he apologizes for whatever drove them away and promises things will be different, other problems outside the marriage drive them back or what. But regardless... sigh... it's a choice the woman makes. For now, it seems that DD has chosen to return to and remain in this marriage. Hopefully, at some point, she will change her mind.

The fact that SIL's sister suffered "emotional, physical, sexual abuse" is very alarming, however, IMO. Especially since GD is now in that environment and has already tried to run away. Did she tell you why she feels "mommy and daddy aren't nice?"

If you are seriously concerned for GD's welfare, you might decide to contact social services. Please realize, however, that you do this at the risk that DD and SIL will find out/suspect that you made the call and cut you out of their lives completely. But if you truly believe you're saving GD, then it might be worth the sacrifice.

Other than that, once again, all I can say is that you'll just have to patiently wait for DD to decide she's had enough. No doubt, that's difficult, but trying to push her to leave (not saying you are) could easily backfire.

 

Edited by RoseRed135
typo
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Baz, it's obvious that there are problems but unfortunately it's just not the "other" family's fault- It may appear that they are solely to blame because quite often as outsiders we just see the results of the dysfunction -- or engulfment- But your daughter is an adult and responsible for her own actions or lack of- It sounds  to me like she knows how to get out of her situation but has chosen not to- Frequently marriages with these dynamics do last a lifetime- Leading her to think or believe it's all "their" fault would only compound her problems- So it would would be best not to encourage it-

Edited by Komorebi

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Neither my husband or I have ever told her to leave him. 4 months after The first granddaughter was born, she came here one night saying she handed him divorce papers. Of course the next day he called her on the phone and wined and dined her to come back,  she did go back and from there on she would tell us some of the stuff that was going on, which was uncomfortable. But we never told her to leave him, has to be her decision. I didn't ask our granddaughter why her mommy and daddy aren't nice.I felt comforting her and giving her a positive reply would not make her feel uncomfortable with me.  Yes, there's something wrong with the in-laws. We had gone to Florida our entire life during spring break because my parents live there. We were going after my husband and I retired and my daughter and my son-in-law would come down and while he was there his parents were on the phone with him 24 7.  They eventually ran down, in-laws, and bought a place. We rent. They told my daughter to make sure we didn't know. There's more to that story of them lying about this but this last winter my husband and I were there in February. My daughter and son-in-law went down to the in-laws for Almost a month also in February they're only an hour away and our daughter would not answer her phone, would not answer a text and will not come to see us. They again took over something we've done.  Money is why we think she is staying along with him n maybe threats by his him.  

Edited by Baz45
Forgot to ad, the in laws had never been to Fl., they just ran down n bought.

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GM Grandparent(s).  I have three grandchildren, all living in the Pacific North West .  Due to the distance, there is no relationship if any.  My husband passed three months ago, and the relationship is more distant than before he passed away.   My 'son' told me to slit my throat, told me to die, and then said all I think about is money (I recently reached out to him so I could contribute to the college fund and he said he didn't feel comfortable taking any money).  News flash, when someone passes, the financial portion is one of the biggest knots to tie.  Even when I send the grandkids gifts, I rarely get any acknowledgement from them.  Of course there's a lot more to write, but for now I will let it rest.  I've decided that I MUST disconnect myself from them.  I'm tired of letting them make me cry.  My husband is probably looking down on me and telling me to ''leave them alone''.  Thanks for listening.

 

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My maternal grandmother was born about 1902.  Piecing together what few details we heard as children, her parents apparently got a divorce when she was about 10 years old.  Her father got remarried and had another family, but granny had little or no contact with him or them.  When I was in high school, we met my granny's half sister.  She was a really nice lady and my granny and she became great friends in their retirement years.

Other than that, there was no other divorce on either side of my family.  When I realized I needed to divorce my first husband, it was hard to make that decision and be the "first".  After a long hospital stay after an accident, I went to stay with my parents for a long recovery period.  I had a cousin going to seminary at the time and we had several long discussions about divorce.  After my recovery, I did file... but my family knew nothing about it until it was final.  I really didn't know how to approach the issue.  My grandmother was supportive after the fact, but I really didn't give anyone the chance to be supportive during the process.

For many people, a troubled marriage is a private affair and the info is kept close to the vest...that is why so many people are so surprised when they find out about a couple divorcing.  It does seem as if divorce in a community often runs in cycles, I think sometimes people get the courage to end a bad marriage once a friend has taken the final step.

IS it possible that your daughter is concerned about actually getting a divorce?  Being divorced?  Is there a stigma in your family about being divorced?

Baz45, I'm not saying to come right out and say, "Honey if you need to file for a divorce we support you" or anything along those lines.  My kids weren't aware of the fact that I had been divorced when their Dad and I married until they were in high school.  My daughter brought up the subject of divorce in general one day while we were in the pool.  I shared a few bare facts and I don't know that we ever discussed it again. 

When my GD was in the fourth grade, her parents were separated for a few months.  Papers were filed but they got back together before it became final.  Recently my now teenaged GD mentioned the fact that I was once divorced to me.  Apparently my DD and she had had a conversation.  I didn't question her as to why she would ask me about divorce.

In this day and age where about 50% of marriages do end in divorce and many couples are choosing to just not get married, I do hope that we are not giving some young girls in families that have no record of divorce the idea that being divorced is taboo or even the impression that divorce is the answer to all disagreements within a marriage.

If you can see signs of physical abuse on your daughter or the grandkids, you might need to confront/comfort her and ask if there is anything you can do to help.  Make it known that you are willing and able to support her in any decision she makes and then let her be an adult and make her own decisions.  Being too helpful can also backfire.  We have very little contact with our DD after their separation, not because we weren't supportive of her, but IMHO because she is sorry she shared so many details with her Dad.  She and son-in-law kissed and made up and DD refused to have a conversation with her Dad and help him to understand why they are still together although our son-in-law did come to us and have a chat.

There can be a fine line in these decisions.

 

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1 hour ago, Baz45 said:

Neither my husband or I have ever told her to leave him. 4 months after The first granddaughter was born, she came here one night saying she handed him divorce papers. Of course the next day he called her on the phone and wined and dined her to come back,  she did go back and from there on she would tell us some of the stuff that was going on, which was uncomfortable. But we never told her to leave him, has to be her decision. I didn't ask our granddaughter why her mommy and daddy aren't nice.I felt comforting her and giving her a positive reply would not make her feel uncomfortable with me.  Yes, there's something wrong with the in-laws. We had gone to Florida our entire life during spring break because my parents live there. We were going after my husband and I retired and my daughter and my son-in-law would come down and while he was there his parents were on the phone with him 24 7.  They eventually ran down, in-laws, and bought a place. We rent. They told my daughter to make sure we didn't know. There's more to that story of them lying about this but this last winter my husband and I were there in February. My daughter and son-in-law went down to the in-laws for Almost a month also in February they're only an hour away and our daughter would not answer her phone, would not answer a text and will not come to see us. They again took over something we've done.  Money is why we think she is staying along with him n maybe threats by his him.  

I didn't think you encouraged her to leave, nothing you said even remotely suggested that- I just don't think that in passing conversation with your daughter that it would be beneficial to the situation to encourage her to think that it's all her inlaws -- as in all their fault- Just a suggestion- You mentioned it being their fault-

I can relate to her situation, to yours and husband's, even to the inlaws having experienced similar in the past- And the money might be one reason why she stays- It's not uncommon- But again, it's her decision to make -- not her husband's, not her inlaws- It's a tough situation for all involved- The only remedy is to lead your (general) own life, vent here or other places online when the spirit moves you, be yourself, be a good listener and understanding when your daughter calls or visits- What else can you do? If you try to get her to change it would be doing the same thing that they're trying to do which would just compound the problem-      

 

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On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 7:33 PM, RoseRed135 said:

Is your relationship w/ your AC (adult children) and/or CIL (children-in-law) strained or broken? Or, conversely, do you have a strained  or broken relationship w/ your parents/PILs (parents-in-law)? Perhaps you find yourselves arguing or offending each other a lot? Or maybe you or they have cut back on contact? Perhaps you even fear you're on the verge of total estrangement? Or??

And, if you will, how does this impact the GP/GC relationship, if at all?

My son and I ALWAYS had a strong relationship.   Even after he married.  Then ...its like someone turned a SWITCH ON and he went nuts on me.  My husband and I were visiting, and he just started verbally beating me up.  I was stunned.  He said such horrible things to me.  Recently BEFORE his father died, that's when he told me to die die and slit my throat.  Also saying that I show no empathy towards him (not true, if I do, then he says I'm being silly).

Do I fear him?  Yes to some degree.  I wouldn't put it past him to physically hurt me. 

He in part blamed me for his fathers passing.  He blamed me for choosing the hospital we went to when my husband began his illness.  He blames me for almost EVERYTHING.  He can twist the truth around - like a merry go round. 

He DEMANDED to ''overnight'' his dads will.  And because he demanded it, I refused to send it to him.

He screams at me - AND I think his wife has something to do with this.  Everything is ALWAYS about her.  She's so ''stuck'' on herself, that she has tunnel vision. 

What saddens me the most is they keep me away from communicating with my three grandchildren.  When I asked for FACETIME with them...its rarely ''convenient'' for anyone.  I'm NOT begging anymore.  I'm changing my will and leaving all of it to my grandchildren.  That's it...the END GAME>

P.S. My son is a VERY VERY heavy Marijuana user.  I think this is part of the problem.  I'm done.  I'm tired of crying.

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Shoshanna, I am sorry about your husbands death and your sons off the rail behavior.  Is there any legal reason your son needs to see his fathers will?

When my FIL passed, we never saw the will.  When MIL passed, then it went to probate.

If one of my adult children ever told me to slit my throat and die,  that would be the last conversation I had with them unless I knew they had a mental issue and I was in a position to get them some help.

We do not have to put up with abuse from anyone.  I can understand why you are done.

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2 hours ago, Baz45 said:

Neither my husband or I have ever told her to leave him. Good! 4 months after The first granddaughter was born, she came here one night saying she handed him divorce papers. Of course the next day he called her on the phone and wined and dined her to come back, - Very common, apparently, in these situations, as I said earlier-   she did go back and from there on she would tell us some of the stuff that was going on, which was uncomfortable. I can imagine! AC don't always realize how this affects parents. So sorry! But we never told her to leave him, has to be her decision. Did you criticize him to her though? That would be a very understandable reaction to her complaints, but unfortunately, might be why she is now blocking your calls. Or she just may feel she has told you "too much."  I didn't ask our granddaughter why her mommy and daddy aren't nice.I felt comforting her and giving her a positive reply would not make her feel uncomfortable with me. Very wise, IMO.  Yes, there's something wrong with the in-laws. We had gone to Florida our entire life during spring break because my parents live there. We were going after my husband and I retired and my daughter and my son-in-law would come down and while he was there his parents were on the phone with him 24 7.  They eventually ran down, in-laws, and bought a place. We rent. They told my daughter to make sure we didn't know. There's more to that story of them lying about this but this last winter my husband and I were there in February. My daughter and son-in-law went down to the in-laws for Almost a month also in February they're only an hour away and our daughter would not answer her phone, would not answer a text and will not come to see us. They again took over something we've done.... Sigh... Money is why we think she is staying along with him n maybe threats by his him.... Sigh again... 

Baz, I think you and DH are handling this situation as well as you can. I just hope DD comes to a point where she decides to leave for good, and sooner rather than later. I trust she knows the proverbial "light" is always "on" in your home for her and GD and that the "door is always open" to them.

I hope SIL isn't physically abusive to DD, the way that Sue's first H was. But, as you can see, she has some experience w/ a bad marriage and the difficulties of leaving it. Other members here also have had the experience of being in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage/relationship or are parents to DDs who have. Hopefully, more of them will come in here to talk w/ you.

You and yours will be in my thoughts and prayers (if ok). Especially DD and GD.

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On 4/3/2017 at 8:40 AM, Shoshanna said:

GM Grandparent(s).  I have three grandchildren, all living in the Pacific North West .  Due to the distance, there is no relationship if any.  My husband passed three months ago, and the relationship is more distant than before he passed away.   My 'son' told me to slit my throat, told me to die, and then said all I think about is money (I recently reached out to him so I could contribute to the college fund and he said he didn't feel comfortable taking any money).  News flash, when someone passes, the financial portion is one of the biggest knots to tie.  Even when I send the grandkids gifts, I rarely get any acknowledgement from them.  Of course there's a lot more to write, but for now I will let it rest.  I've decided that I MUST disconnect myself from them.  I'm tired of letting them make me cry.  My husband is probably looking down on me and telling me to ''leave them alone''.  Thanks for listening.

 

First, my deepest condolences on the loss of your DH (dear husband).

Secondly, I'm so sorry about the way DS (dear son) - or maybe not-so-dear- S right now - has been treating you. It must hurt terribly, especially since he told you to "slit (your) throat and die."  (((Hugs!)))

Please realize that he is probably grieving, too. Is it possible that he just hasn't been able to accept the loss of his dad? Sounds like he's lashing out - blaming you, the hospital, etc - everything but accept the reality that this is just how things go, sometimes. I'm no therapist, but I've read that "anger" is often one of the stages of grief, and that may be what S is experiencing right now though I realize he may not be a direct heir, etc. . As I understand it, this will pass, in time. Also, I get your feeling that you're "done." But please reconsider... Maybe you should just give him some space for a while - don't call, write, ask for FT, etc - and chances are, the anger will dissolve and he'll reach out to you again... Patience... This will be good for you, too, IMO, b/c, as you say, yourself, you shouldn't be in a position where they 'make (you) cry."

About the will - When my DM (dear mother) passed away, the lawyer told me that every heir (my DB and me) was supposed to get a copy of the will. Perhaps someone has told this to S and that's why he's asking. He shouldn't "DEMAND" it, of course, but as I said, he may just be very angry about his dad's passing, right now. Nor should he ask you to send the actual will - a copy should be enough, according to what that attorney told me. However, I recommend that you check w/ the lawyer for DH's will and go by his answer, not S' emotions or yours.

In fact, I don't think you should make any decision about your own will while you're still grieving, yourself. Maybe, eventually, you will change your will. But please give yourself more time before you definitely decide. Or if you do change it now, please realize, you may, in the not-so-distant future, decide to change it back.

ETA: Meant to say also - glad you brought your concerns to us! Welcome!

On 4/3/2017 at 10:30 AM, Shoshanna said:

My son and I ALWAYS had a strong relationship.   Even after he married.  Then ...its like someone turned a SWITCH ON and he went nuts on me.  My husband and I were visiting, and he just started verbally beating me up.  I was stunned.  He said such horrible things to me.  Recently BEFORE his father died, that's when he told me to die die and slit my throat.  Also saying that I show no empathy towards him (not true, if I do, then he says I'm being silly).

Do I fear him?  Yes to some degree.  I wouldn't put it past him to physically hurt me. 

He in part blamed me for his fathers passing.  He blamed me for choosing the hospital we went to when my husband began his illness.  He blames me for almost EVERYTHING.  He can twist the truth around - like a merry go round. 

He DEMANDED to ''overnight'' his dads will.  And because he demanded it, I refused to send it to him.

He screams at me - AND I think his wife has something to do with this.  Everything is ALWAYS about her.  She's so ''stuck'' on herself, that she has tunnel vision. 

What saddens me the most is they keep me away from communicating with my three grandchildren.  When I asked for FACETIME with them...its rarely ''convenient'' for anyone.  I'm NOT begging anymore.  I'm changing my will and leaving all of it to my grandchildren.  That's it...the END GAME>

P.S. My son is a VERY VERY heavy Marijuana user.  I think this is part of the problem.  I'm done.  I'm tired of crying.

 

Edited by RoseRed135
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23 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

First, my deepest condolences on the loss of your DH (dear husband).

Secondly, I'm so sorry about the way DS (dear son) - or maybe not-so-dear- S right now - has been treating you. It must hurt terribly, especially since he told you to "slit (your) throat and die."  (((Hugs!)))

Please realize that he is probably grieving, too. Is it possible that he just hasn't been able to accept the loss of his dad? Sounds like he's lashing out - blaming you, the hospital, etc - everything but accept the reality that this is just how things go, sometimes. I'm no therapist, but I've read that "anger" is often one of the stages of grief, and that may be what S is experiencing right now. As I understand it, this will pass, in time. Also, I get your feeling that you're "done." But please reconsider... Maybe you should just give him some space for a while - don't call, write, ask for FT, etc - and chances are, the anger will dissolve and he'll reach out to you again... Patience... This will be good for you, too, IMO, b/c, as you say, yourself, you shouldn't be in a position where they 'make (you) cry."

About the will - When my DM (dear mother) passed away, the lawyer told me that every heir (my DB and me) was supposed to get a copy of the will. Perhaps someone has told this to S and that's why he's asking. He shouldn't "DEMAND" it, of course, but as I said, he may just be very angry about his dad's passing, right now. Nor should he ask you to send the actual will - a copy should be enough, according to what that attorney told me. However, I recommend that you check w/ the lawyer for DH's will and go by his answer, not S' emotions or yours.

In fact, I don't think you should make any decision about your own will while you're still grieving, yourself. Maybe, eventually, you will change your will. But please give yourself more time before you definitely decide. Or if you do change it now, please realize, you may, in the not-so-distant future, decide to change it back.

ETA: Meant to say also - glad you brought your concerns to us! Welcome!

 

:aggressive:

Edited by RoseRed135
b/c a comment was added to quoted post

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@Shoshanna, I feel your grief, my dear DH passed two years ago after a nearly 10 year illness. We had/I have strong relationships with our kids (2 mine, 1 his), so things have moved along smoothly.

We have a Living Trust, which contains the wills, end of life wishes, deed to the house, my car, bank accounts, etc. The first beneficiary level was to each other with the kids secondary (divided equally). There is no room for arguments over money. That said, I actually told my kids that I plan to spend it all. They are all good with that. There will be no probate, that's what the trust avoids. I have been dividing his belongings as I see fit. The changes I've made to the now solo trust is that the kids are primary beneficiaries, my sister has power of attorney over medical issues (don't want to burden the kids with that) and the 9GK are secondary beneficiaries divided equally. Just the sale of my house will give them a generous gift. 

My sister & her DH also have a trust, but are leaving it equally to their 4 GK rather than their 3 kids. Relationships with 2 of the kids have been rocky at times, but generally stable and very stable with the 3rd, but she's married to an extremely lazy man. Sis would rather see that the GK get a hand up in life.

Consider setting up a trust. Your attorney can act as executor if you name the GK as beneficiaries or you can name an executor. Put everything in it. Everything can stay in the trust until the GK reach the age of your choice for distribution. 

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21 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hi again, Baz! Your worry for DD and your relationship w/ her and GD comes through your post, and I truly feel for you. Some of my relatives have married into families that are Italian or half-Italian, including my ODD, and they've always seemed warm and welcoming, as far as I could see. So this "secretive"... "cult family atmosphere" may be specific to SIL's FOO (family of origin). That doesn't make your concerns any easier, I know.

I understand that it must be disappointing to have DD drop all your family traditions. If it's any comfort, we have had other parents come here and say this about their adult DDs or DSs. I'm not clear on whether she and SIL only do his FOO's traditions now or whether they have created their own, as some young families do. Either way, you seem to feel she has been "brainwashed" into it, but is it possible she chose to make these changes for whatever reasons she might have?

SIL's not wanting DD to have her friend in the house is a red flag, no doubt. His FOO's trying to "separate" the 2 cousins is alarming, too, though I'm not sure how they can do this w/o the parents' consent.

Regardless, when it's all put together, it looks bad. But I'm not sure there's much you can do about it except wait for DD to decide for herself that this situation isn't right for her or GD.

For now, all I can suggest is to tread lightly. According to what you said in the other conversation, if I understood correctly, you still get to see DD and GD. Please don't do anything that might disrupt that. In fact, as I mentioned in the other thread, I think it's probably best not to ask for more time w/ them or voice any concerns, at this point (if that's what you have been doing), as difficult and counter-intuitive as this may be. I'm afraid it just might just lead to their cutting back time w/ you and yours even further. Better to zip your lip, IMO (perhaps you already do) and just enjoy whatever visits you have w/  DD and GD. I say this not just b/c I know you want them in your lives, but b/c they may need you if DD ever decides that this isn't working and she wants out for good.

Please keep us posted...

Good advice, above, to tread lightly and zip your lips.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

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I think sometimes, the person in an abusive/controlling relationship stays because of the kids. In some situations, better to have mom around than leave child/ren alone with dad and IL's to control and manipulate more for any length of time. Not willing to give up every other weekend and holidays where there is little to no protection. Hope that makes sense. At least until abuse can be documented and proven and parental rights taken away from the abuser, sometimes staying may feel like the only choice.

I do think that divorce and it being taboo plays a part as well. No one wants to be the first in their family.

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14 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

I think sometimes, the person in an abusive/controlling relationship stays because of the kids. In some situations, better to have mom around than leave child/ren alone with dad and IL's to control and manipulate more for any length of time. Not willing to give up every other weekend and holidays where there is little to no protection. Hope that makes sense. At least until abuse can be documented and proven and parental rights taken away from the abuser, sometimes staying may feel like the only choice.

I do think that divorce and it being taboo plays a part as well. No one wants to be the first in their family.

Not to mention that, sadly, violence often escalates when the abused victim attempts to leave the relationship. In some cases this can escalate to homicidal violence, which would leave the children effectively with no parents (one dead, the other in jail).

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16 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

I think sometimes, the person in an abusive/controlling relationship stays because of the kids. In some situations, better to have mom around than leave child/ren alone with dad and IL's to control and manipulate more for any length of time. Not willing to give up every other weekend and holidays where there is little to no protection. Hope that makes sense. At least until abuse can be documented and proven and parental rights taken away from the abuser, sometimes staying may feel like the only choice.

I do think that divorce and it being taboo plays a part as well. No one wants to be the first in their family.

 

1 hour ago, agnurse said:

Not to mention that, sadly, violence often escalates when the abused victim attempts to leave the relationship. In some cases this can escalate to homicidal violence, which would leave the children effectively with no parents (one dead, the other in jail).

Both ^ so true -- and so absolutely saddening-

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On 4/3/2017 at 4:37 AM, Baz45 said:

There is a neighbor that has known both our daughters since third and fifth grade. She is so afraid of the  in-laws that she stays her distance. She helped get our son-in-law's sister out of the house into a battered woman shelter, because of the emotional, physical, sexual abuse.  As I said there's a lot more to this issue. 

Rereading your posts, I realize I'm a little confused about some things. Is the neighbor mentioned here^^^^ your neighbor or theirs? And why, if you feel comfortable telling us, is she "so afraid of the in-laws?" Also, was it this neighbor  or your DD who helped SIL's sister out of the house?

You might want to see if DD's ILs fit the description given here:

 

 

 

@Shoshanna- How are you doing?

Edited by RoseRed135

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The neighbor is near the IL's.  I did not know they lived their until our SIL's sister told me they got her out of the house to a Battered women's shelter.  I was not sure what I was hearing was true, so I took a ride over to the neighbor and spoke with her.  The neighbor confirmed everything our SIL's sister told me.  Our SIL's sister told me her parents are toxic.  Everything with their children needs to evolve around them.  They are wanting the grandchildren to do the same.  These IL's are controlling, manipulative and overwhelming and remember live next door. They have screwed up almost every holiday as everything evolves around them.  We feel our daughter doesn't have a choice being that her husband is verbally abusive if she does not do what he says. This is how our daughter has become but that seems an off and on thing with her. 

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12 hours ago, Baz45 said:

The neighbor is near the IL's.  I did not know they lived their until our SIL's sister told me they got her out of the house to a Battered women's shelter.  I was not sure what I was hearing was true, so I took a ride over to the neighbor and spoke with her.  The neighbor confirmed everything our SIL's sister told me.  Our SIL's sister told me her parents are toxic.  Everything with their children needs to evolve around them.  They are wanting the grandchildren to do the same.  These IL's are controlling, manipulative and overwhelming and remember live next door. They have screwed up almost every holiday as everything evolves around them.  We feel our daughter doesn't have a choice being that her husband is verbally abusive if she does not do what he says. This is how our daughter has become but that seems an off and on thing with her. 

Ok, thanks for clarifying! The ILs definitely sound awful!

Sorry about the verbal abuse. Very likely, it's influencing DD's choices, sad to say, as you suspect.

But the "on and off" factor suggests to me that there's still a part of her that's resisting this dysfunctional dynamic. Hopefully, that part will prevail in the end.

 

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