• Announcements

    • LatoyaADMIN

      What to do if you get a "Wrong Password" message   01/21/16

      You must reset your password (even if you know it's the right one) before you can sign into the community. Thanks to the upgrade, there's an issue with passwords and signing in. The good news is that you can click here: http://community.grandparents.com/index.php?/lostpassword/ to change your password (it'll let you reuse your old one). If you can't reach the email address connected to your account then please contact the admin at latoya@grandparents.com and I'll help you sort it out. 
    • LatoyaADMIN

      Anonymous posting is back   01/21/16

      We've removed the extra step that required you to go to the full-page editor to access the anonymous post option. Now, you can reply to a post and toggle the button to post anonymous (see photo below).    Read more on anonymous posting here:    In short, the mods can see who posts as anonymous, we moderate anonymous posts the same as revealed posts, you can reply anonymously to your own topic, you may report anonymous posts.
RoseRed135

DIL V. DIL, etc...

22 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Sometimes, it seems, one DS & DIL  (or DD & SIL) pair gets along well w/ their parents/PILs while the other doesn't at all. No doubt, different personalities relate to each other in different ways, but, in some cases, the contrast is very sharp. In fact, occasionally, I've read/heard of one CIL trying to influence another to include/give in to MIL/FIL more often, etc. How does this come about?

Thoughts? Experiences? Observations?

(I know we've talked about this before, but it has been a while and new members have joined us since then.)

Edited by RoseRed135

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

 In fact, occasionally, I've read/heard of one CIL trying to influence another to include/give in to MIL/FIL more often, etc. How does this come about?

Thoughts? Experiences? Observations?

(I know we've talked about this before, but it has been a while and new members have joined us since then.)

Frankly, I think it comes about by ppl thinking they get a say in other's relationships.

Noooope.

Adults who meddle in other's relationships aren't being respectful.

It doesn't matter how close you may be, you DON'T know all the ins and outs of the relationship btwn other adults. Your relationship w/someone isn't the same as their relationship w/someone else.

My mother bragged to anyone that would listen that my sib was her favourite. Her relationship w/him was VASTLY different from her relationship with me, or my other sibs, one of who has been CO for more than a decade, the other has gone CO but come back (last I knew, haven't heard anything in 5 yrs).

Part of it, too, is that when there's a GC/SG dynamic happening, if the SG leaves, it means the target gets shifted on to someone else. Much pressure will be put on the SG to come back, b/c it makes everyone ELSE'S life easier. So, there can be an element of self preservation involved by the person playing Flying Monkey. "Mom/Dad/MIL/FIL is making everyone miserable, get back here so they quit making me nuts."

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ideally, those who are essentially uninvolved in the family conflict would stay neutral. IMO, there is a sense of interconnectedness within family relationships that can make it hard to stay in your own lane when there is conflict. But I agree with Impishmom; no one can know the inner workings of the independent relationships of others, even within their own family.

IMO, meddling in the affairs of others is sometimes well intended, although usually misguided. It's understandable to want peace within one's family, but an AC/CIL who attempts to influence another AC/CIL is intervening where they shouldn't. Not only is it unlikely to improve the situation, it's also likely to cause strife in sibling relationships as well.

I think that some AC feel a sense of duty toward their parents, such that they feel complelled to see to it that their siblings also serve the needs/wants of their parents.

Also, it may be that the parents of AC are responsible for involving their other AC/CIL. Some parents confide too much in one AC about another AC, and inadvertently pull them into the conflict. Or, they may intentionally enlist the support of one AC against another to increase the pressure on the unabiding AC in order to achieve their end.

DH's sister would often pressure us to appease MIL by allowing her to be more involved with our kids. DH asked that SIL not involve herself in the situations, but when the conflict came to a head, she openly sided with MIL. Because of this, DH has almost no contact with her either, and the rift between him is now extended to throughout his family.

In this situation, MIL sees herself as an entitled victim, and SIL supports this. In her mind, she is a rightfully supporting her mother. MIL also IMO, controls her FOO with fear, obligation and guilt, and FIL and SIL are accustomed to bending to her will. Now that DH is not bending, they are attempting to rescue her by doing her bidding. Although SIL has made her own choice to involve herself based on what MIL has told her about the situation, (DH did not shared anything with his sister in hopes that our r/s with her would not be affected), but IMO, MIL had a huge hand in involving SIL in the conflict with us. 

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2017 at 3:00 AM, RoseRed135 said:

Sometimes, it seems, one DS & DIL  (or DD & SIL) pair gets along well w/ their parents/PILs while the other doesn't at all. No doubt, different personalities relate to each other in different ways, but, in some cases, the contrast is very sharp. In fact, occasionally, I've read/heard of one CIL trying to influence another to include/give in to MIL/FIL more often, etc. How does this come about?

There is no explanation. Some CIL behave inappropriately.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my perspective and personal DIL experience:

I have had the pleasure of having 2 great women in my life as MILs. Ive been told by them and by others that i have been thought of in high regards as a DIL.

Ive had the pleasure of having a beautiful kind hearted but strong personaility for a DIL, who ive often said that if it were up to me to choose for my son, she would be my pick. Not because I get along with her, but because she is good for my son and he is good for her.

Then there is DIL #1 (soon to be ex). That has been a whirlwind of emotions for me ranging from complete dislike and anger to loving and accepting her and back to just ready for some kind of normal again but civil relationship because she is my GS awesome Mom.

Now with all of that being said, I do think its possible that the one in the family that seems to everyone else to be the hardest to form a relationship is just that....obstinate because they can be. As was told to me long ago....EVERYBODY Cant Be Wrong. Ive ponder on those words many a time over many a year now. They ring true.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2017 at 5:46 PM, INCOGNITO said:

There is no explanation. Some CIL behave inappropriately.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

Meaning the CIL who doesn't get along w/ the PILs or the one who tries to intervene/interfere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! A broad variety of views in just a handful of posts! And all very thought-provoking, IMO!

@Parenting3 - You especially cover a lot of ground. I'd like to add that, sometimes, a sibling or siblingIL doesn't see the problem w/ the mom/MIL (or dad/FIL) until they experience it themselves or make the connection w/ issues they're having. To an extent, this happened to me where DB was concerned. To be clear, he and DM weren't CO and I never got in the middle of their arguments. But I often saw the situation through DM's eyes (she was the one confiding in me). And it wasn't till I realized that her efforts to influence DB's choices were as out of line as her efforts to influence mine that I began to see his side of things. The issues were vastly different - that's why I didn't see the similarity for a long time - but the dynamic was the same. Granted, no matter what they "see," IMO, a 3rd party shouldn't get in the middle (barring concerns about abuse, of course).

@Weesheart75 - No doubt, it could sometimes be a simple matter of one family member/IL could just be a difficult person.

Meanwhile, I take it that ODS and DIL#1 are getting a divorce. Sorry it came to that though I know, in the end, he might be better off. Glad to hear that there's a much better situation w/ DIL#2! And how delightful that you enjoyed both your MILs and that they both held you " in high regards as a DI!" :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2017 at 3:00 AM, RoseRed135 said:

I've read/heard of one CIL trying to influence another to include/give in to MIL/FIL more often, etc. How does this come about?

There is no explanation. ^^ Some CIL behave inappropriately.

12 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Meaning the CIL who doesn't get along w/ the PILs or the one who tries to intervene/interfere?

 

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks for clarifying, Incog!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I don't think meddling into relationships ever ends well.   DH and I were on the receiving end of this from DH's DB, DH's cousin and DH's aunt - which all had one common theme - what we weren't doing for MIL that we should be doing.  I can easily understand how this happened - MIL complained to them, they - being fiercely loyal to her and already highly challenged in the perspective department  - acted on her behalf and told us what we should be doing for MIL - mainly voiced to DH.  MIL went through great lengths to keep her hands clean and feign ignorance about all of this and let her posse do the dirty work, although she got caught a couple time and of course in her rage session last year when she lost the ability to check herself revealed everything.   This stuff will eventually catch up to you, I firmly believe! 

I struggle with a somewhat related situation in which a betrayal happens to one person you know by another person you know and staying in your lane since you don't know the full story and never will.   In this case, I have a hard time understanding how a relationship can continue with the person who betrayed the other person and in that respect I am not able to say that I would always stay in my lane.  For example, I read an advice column a few years back in which a man wrote in about his 10 year estrangement with his parents which happened after his wife, who had been married to this man for over a decade during which they struggled with fertility, had an affair with this man's brother, whom she left her husband for and married and had two kids.  The parents of these two sons took a Switzerland like approach - they stayed in their lane and did not take sides, which the betrayed son had a huge problem with, causing him to cut them off (as well as his DB and ex wife).  The parents - who had an active relationship with their other son, DIL and 2 kids - wrote to this son over the years trying to reach out and reconnect with him which he refused.  He wrote into the advice column mainly wanting a reality check Re: whether he was being too unrelenting with his parents who weren't part of the betrayal.

In this case, I felt so much empathy for the betrayed son, and completely understood why he cut his parents off, and agreed with him, but in doing so, aren't I asking the parents to get out of their lane and pick a side and in effect meddle into the relationships between these 2 sons and the DIL which they didn't do? 

 

Edited by BSW
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geez, BSW. That poor guy. He's in a no-win situation, all the way around, betrayed by his wife with his DB.

The guy might need decades before he can approach his parents, and maybe he can never reconcile with his DB. I'd be surprised if he could.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On June 12, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Weesheart75 said:

From my perspective and personal DIL experience:

I have had the pleasure of having 2 great women in my life as MILs. Ive been told by them and by others that i have been thought of in high regards as a DIL.

Ive had the pleasure of having a beautiful kind hearted but strong personaility for a DIL, who ive often said that if it were up to me to choose for my son, she would be my pick. Not because I get along with her, but because she is good for my son and he is good for her.

Then there is DIL #1 (soon to be ex). That has been a whirlwind of emotions for me ranging from complete dislike and anger to loving and accepting her and back to just ready for some kind of normal again but civil relationship because she is my GS awesome Mom.

Now with all of that being said, I do think its possible that the one in the family that seems to everyone else to be the hardest to form a relationship is just that....obstinate because they can be. As was told to me long ago....EVERYBODY Cant Be Wrong. Ive ponder on those words many a time over many a year now. They ring true.

Oh, wow. So it didn't work out? Wasn't she the one who was incredibly immature and didn't even drive when she married? The one whose parents doted on her and infantilized her? She was a doozy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, oscarsmaman said:

Geez, BSW. That poor guy. He's in a no-win situation, all the way around, betrayed by his wife with his DB.

The guy might need decades before he can approach his parents, and maybe he can never reconcile with his DB. I'd be surprised if he could.

I completely understand if this guy never reconciles with his DB after such a betrayal, but I have mixed emotions regarding the parents.  The parents did not betray their son.  They appeared to try to stay in their lane and not meddle into the issues between their 2 sons and their DIL, which is usually the smart way to go, yet their son cut them off.  On one hand I understand why the son did this, but on the other hand, the parents weren't part of this betrayal, so why are they getting the same treatment as their other son and DIL who actually did the betraying?

 

Edited by BSW
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BSW said:

I completely understand if this guy never reconciles with his DB after such a betrayal, but I have mixed emotions regarding the parents.  The parents did not betray their son.  They appeared to try to stay in their lane and not meddle into the issues between their 2 sons and their DIL, which is usually the smart way to go, yet their son cut them off.  On one hand I understand why the son did this, but on the other hand, the parents weren't part of this betrayal, so why are they getting the same treatment as their other son and DIL who actually did the betraying?

 

Because the guy is their son, too, he undoubtedly feels a sense of betrayal that his DB can essentially "steal his wife" and they would prefer to play happy family with the guy who stole his wife (who appears to have happily been stolen and betrayed the guy, too).

And who knows, maybe the guy was always a jerk to his wife, you know? And the DB can love her better. But it's still pretty shady. My heart really aches for him if he wasn't a jerk to his wife, and the DB was always the GC. That would add a layer of betrayal to his parental alienation.

It's a sad, but interesting, complex situation. I see your point, where the parents didn't outright betray him. They're just indirectly betraying him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help but feel sorry for the parents of these two men also.  They stayed in their lane and refused to take sides during the breaking up storm.  They remained Switzerland.  The 'wronged' son broke off relationship with his parents because they didn't take his side.  The parents were doing what we often advise here..stay out of your ACs business.  They tried to reconnect for 10 years and the 'wronged' son wanted nothing to do with them.  In his eyes, the fact that they had an ongoing relationship with the 'sinners' meant that they took their side.

While I can 100% sympathize with the estranged son, why should these parents loose both sons and their grandchildren over this?  What did they do wrong to deserve no contact with either son?

Just like being the "easy" one doesn't guarantee a relationship, neither does staying in your own lane.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 6/13/2017 at 9:46 AM, BSW said:

The parents of these two sons took a Switzerland like approach - they stayed in their lane and did not take sides, which the betrayed son had a huge problem with, causing him to cut them off (as well as his DB and ex wife).  The parents - who had an active relationship with their other son, DIL and 2 kids - wrote to this son over the years trying to reach out and reconnect with him which he refused.  He wrote into the advice column mainly wanting a reality check Re: whether he was being too unrelenting with his parents who weren't part of the betrayal.

It seems as if the parents lost a relationship with one son, because they didn't choose to take sides from Switzerland.

I'm not thinking parents should get out of their lane, pick a side, meddle in their sons' fuss, even though it's sad and messy.

ETA:  I wonder how the pillow talk about DIL/XWife sounds?

Edited by JanelleK
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, JanelleK said:

It seems as if the parents lost a relationship with one son, because they didn't choose to take sides from Switzerland.

I'm not thinking parents should get out of their lane, pick a side, meddle in their sons' fuss, even though it's sad and messy.

ETA:  I wonder how the pillow talk about DIL/XWife sounds?

Yes, the parents had an active relationship with the other son, DIL and their 2 kids.  The betrayed son did not give a lot of history so you don't know about the relationships in this family prior to the betrayal or the actions of the parents after the betrayal which probably played a factor in the cut off.  This story reminds me of what happened between Vice Prez Joe Biden's two sons.  One son died leaving behind a wife and 2 kids, and soon thereafter their other son left his wife (and mother of his three kids) for his (deceased) brother's wife.   I recall the Bidens making a public announcement about their support for this new relationship, and I thought wow hearing that must really suck for the DIL and her three kids who lost their husband/dad to this other woman who was their sister in law/aunt.   I think this situation called for a lot more discretion. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2017 at 6:51 PM, SueSTx said:

I can't help but feel sorry for the parents of these two men also.  They stayed in their lane and refused to take sides during the breaking up storm.  They remained Switzerland.  The 'wronged' son broke off relationship with his parents because they didn't take his side.  The parents were doing what we often advise here..stay out of your ACs business.  They tried to reconnect for 10 years and the 'wronged' son wanted nothing to do with them.  In his eyes, the fact that they had an ongoing relationship with the 'sinners' meant that they took their side.

While I can 100% sympathize with the estranged son, why should these parents loose both sons and their grandchildren over this?  What did they do wrong to deserve no contact with either son?

Just like being the "easy" one doesn't guarantee a relationship, neither does staying in your own lane.

Sometimes, there are no foolproof answers... sigh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 6/15/2017 at 8:23 PM, BSW said:

Yes, the parents had an active relationship with the other son, DIL and their 2 kids.  The betrayed son did not give a lot of history so you don't know about the relationships in this family prior to the betrayal or the actions of the parents after the betrayal which probably played a factor in the cut off.  This story reminds me of what happened between Vice Prez Joe Biden's two sons.  One son died leaving behind a wife and 2 kids, and soon thereafter their other son left his wife (and mother of his three kids) for his (deceased) brother's wife.   I recall the Bidens making a public announcement about their support for this new relationship, and I thought wow hearing that must really suck for the DIL and her three kids who lost their husband/dad to this other woman who was their sister in law/aunt.   I think this situation called for a lot more discretion. 

It goes almost w/out saying that the Joe Bidens probably didn't want to risk losing another DS, even if in a different way. OTOH, I totally get what you mean about DIL and their 3 GC. IDKY the Bidens felt a public announcement had to be made. But I'm not a public figure or married to one - maybe the scenario would look different to me if I were.

I wonder what their relation ship w/ DIL (or I suppose it's XDIL at this point) and the GC is like now...

ETA: Googling shows me they have GC w/ the other DIL (and their deceased DS), too. So whichever way they turned, they stood to lose/damage their relationship w/ a set of grands. IMO, that underscores the idea that their focus was on maintaining a relationship w/ their remaining DS... difficult choices,,, sigh...

Edited by RoseRed135
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hunter Biden got kicked out of the naval reserve for cocaine. He was reported to be on Ashley's List. He depleted marital funds on alcohol, drugs, and prostitutes. His wife probably kicked him out for cause, but I think it is reasonable for his dad to support him through all his addiction issues.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are posts by a mom who defended her son having an affair and a child with another woman, while still married. There didn't seem to be any outcry for her dils feelings. Parents defend their own.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The parents of the two brothers were really in a no win situation, IMO. It seems like their approach was intended to avoid choosing between their two sons, but by staying neutral, the choice was made for them and they lost one anyway. Had they done things differently, and condemned their offending DS, it would presumably have cost them their relationship with him. A betrayal like this is an ugly thing, but because they didn't condemn it, does it mean they were condoning it? By not abandoning the offending son, did they forsake the betrayed son?

As a parent, I can't imagine the difficulty of being in this position. A parent's love is generally unconditional; even prisons are full of people whose mothers still love them. I'm not sure that it's reasonable for an AC to expect his or her parents to turn their back on their other DS. I honestly don't think I could sacrifice a relationship with one of my children for the sake of loyalty to another, or for an error in judgement such as this. However, it would be disappointing to watch one of your own child disregard the feelings of a sibling to this extent. This is a heartbreaking story, and an example of the unfortunate ripple effect broken relationships can have within a family. 

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now