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Komorebi

Boy Scout Jamboree

50 posts in this topic

Several posts are hidden for review. They may or may not be restored. Thanks for your patience.

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2 hours ago, Komorebi said:

I am implying that I have no idea whatsoever what the parents expected would result from sending their sons to an event where a man who is labeled a racist is speaking- That aspect of one's personality isn't going to disappear so readily simply because he is speaking to a group of youth - I get what you're saying here, Komo. But, from what I've been reading, it doesn't appear that Trump said anything about race or that any parents complained about his speech being "racist." The criticism seems to be about his speech being "too political," "like a campaign speech," and "inappropriate" for the Boy Scout Jamboree. - The majority of those parents had to know that the president's address to their sons wouldn't go over so well .. I am implying they knew who they were dealing with and went forward anyway -- now they are complaining .. and that's part of the irony ..

One knows that there's a strong chance that it is going to rain but doesn't bring an umbrella and then complains they are wet ..

Edit: Now add that their sons are members of a predominantly white organization ..

Unless, I've missed something, and racism was an issue w/ Trump's speech, then I don't see how the racial makeup of the crowd is a factor. But even if there were racism in his comments, would the fact that it's a largely white organization necessarily make the complaints ironic?  Only, IMO, if the parents deliberately signed their boys up for that reason and/or if the BSA were currently keeping down the number of non-white members.

 

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Rose, thats correct- There was nothing race related in his speech- The irony was that a man who has been labeled a racist was invited to speak to a predominantly white audience .. which struck some of us funny .. 

We also think that the parents, some but not all, had the foresight that the president would offer an unacceptable address at the event- But sent their boys anyway to futher their own political agenda .. so they could then take action after the fact .. which also struck us funny ..

 

 

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Not everyone thinks the way you do. Komorebi.  I think that there are a lot of people in the US that are not as political as it seems that many people on this MILA forum are.

 

I am somewhat political.  BUT  I don't think it would even dawn on me that sending my son to a boy scout jamboree is a political statement.  for me there is much more to a Boy Scout Jamobore  than a POTUS speech.  If I sent my children to the jamboree, I don't think what the president of the United States said would  be something I would even consider.  If Hilary Clinton was the keynote speaker I wouldn't care. The speech is only one part of the event.  And a very small part.  People still attend the college graduation's  of their  children when unacceptable (to them) speakers are scheduled.  If Hilary  was the keynote speaker at my son's college graduation, I would still attend. And that speech is a bigger thing than at the Jamboree. .  If I sent my boys to a Boy Scout jamboree, the last thing on my mind would be the POTUS speaking at the event.  I'd think that would be the case with a huge majority of the attendees.

Edited by skipped
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55 minutes ago, skipped said:

Not everyone thinks the way you do. Komorebi.  I think that there are a lot of people in the US that are not as political as it seems that many people on this MILA forum are.

 

I am somewhat political.  BUT  I don't think it would even dawn on me that sending my son to a boy scout jamboree is a political statement.  for me there is much more to a Boy Scout Jamobore  than a POTUS speech.  If I sent my children to the jamboree, I don't think what the president of the United States said would  be something I would even consider.  If Hilary Clinton was the keynote speaker I wouldn't care. The speech is only one part of the event.  And a very small part.  People still attend the college graduation's  of their  children when unacceptable (to them) speakers are scheduled.  If Hilary  was the keynote speaker at my son's college graduation, I would still attend. And that speech is a bigger thing than at the Jamboree. .  If I sent my boys to a Boy Scout jamboree, the last thing on my mind would be the POTUS speaking at the event.  I'd think that would be the case with a huge majority of the attendees.

Understood, skipped- And I hope you understand that I don't for moment think "everyone" thinks like me- :) 

I've nothing against scouting -- or the BSA- I was a den mother, my son a cub, my daughter was a Brownie- I was a Brownie- My brother a scout, my sister, too- BUT when I created this thread, in the News and Issues section, it didn't even dawn on me that "nobody" else would find it funny that a man who has been labeled a racist gave a speech to a crowd of predominantly white youth- I see it as a bit of comical serendipity in these politically charged, racially tense times-

It was kismet- :) 

 

 

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And ironic .. :)

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***The hidden posts have now been deleted due to content***

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On 7/29/2017 at 4:41 PM, SueSTx said:

I read somewhere and can't find it again that the head honcho for the BSA did say that IF Trump was still president for the jamboree in 2021, that they would probably invite him again because that is what they have always done.

So, IMHO...the complaints couldn't have been to serious to even consider extending another invitation.

Is it more "fake news"...who knows?

Is what "fake news"? I'm not even sure I know what you're referring to, here.

Are you saying that "the complaints were serious" is possible fake news?

Or are you saying "the head honcho says if Trump's president in 2021 he's invited to speak again" is possible fake news?

Edited by oscarsmaman

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On 7/30/2017 at 8:16 PM, Komorebi said:

Rose, thats correct- There was nothing race related in his speech- The irony was that a man who has been labeled a racist was invited to speak to a predominantly white audience .. which struck some of us funny .. 

We also think that the parents, some but not all, had the foresight that the president would offer an unacceptable address at the event- But sent their boys anyway to futher their own political agenda .. so they could then take action after the fact .. which also struck us funny ..

 

 

Who's "us"? I don't see anyone else on here who can find the punchline in your joke, except you. And instead of explaining the punchline and why it's funny, you keep saying the same word-salad over and over, misusing "irony" and blathering about history, while trying to discredit a kids' organization whose membership once included our last president, who was black.

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So, IMHO...the complaints couldn't have been to serious to even consider extending another invitation.

Is it more "fake news"...who knows?  quoting myself and answering oscar

IF...the parent complaints to the head office of the BSA were many and very accusatory, why would the "boss" state that the current POTUS "probably" be invited again in four years IF he was still in office?

AND...how bad and how many were the complaints?

The news industry IMHO is not trusted anymore and all their stories are up for question.

All that being said...how dare the man give a political campaign type speech to the BSA group or any group of children not of voting age...That is now appropriate.

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I think it's inappropriate.  I think the guy doesn't have a filter.  But really, this isn't going to scar these kids for life.  I wonder how many of them were playing on their I phones during the speech.  And if they were listening even care.    How many of the actual attendees complained vs their parents.

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4 hours ago, oscarsmaman said:

Who's "us"? I don't see anyone else on here who can find the punchline in your joke, except you. And instead of explaining the punchline and why it's funny, you keep saying the same word-salad over and over, misusing "irony" and blathering about history, while trying to discredit a kids' organization whose membership once included our last president, who was black.

To be clear when I said us I was referring those of us discussing it offline- I'll leave the rest of that post alone- :)  I still see humor in the situation-

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I don't think what he did was inappropriate because it was flat out wrong- I won't mention the rest of what I thought of the event anymore .. :)

I don't know if kids forget encounters with presidents, but also think such encounters impact each a bit differently- I'm sure some whose parents support the president, and are vocal about it at home, will consider the event a positive experience- Same goes for those that don't -- support him and are vocal at home-

The news isn't always a reliable source, but the BSA did offer an apology- That news in particular isn't fake- As far as how many complaints they (BSA) received, I've no idea- Does anyone? But according to the BSA's apology, people must have complained:

"I want to extend my sincere apologies to those in our Scouting family who were offended by the political rhetoric that was inserted into the jamboree."

 

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While I don't see the humor in OP's post, I do agree that the BSA has a history of discrimination.  And it's not something that is ancient history.  It's pretty recent.  Until this decade the BSA had bans on granting membership to LGBTQ people and had a ban on LGBTQ leaders.  I think it was only as recently as 2015 that the BSA voted to lift that ban on LGBTQ leaders.  And while the national ban has been lifted I understand that there are still local groups that do not allow LGBTQ members or leaders.  So, personally, I would never allow my son or daughter to join an organization like the BSA, that discriminated against the LGBTQ community.  I would not want those disgusting values to be taught to my children.  So, I do not find it at all ironic that an organization that has a very recent history of discrimination would relish having someone like the current resident of the WH speak at their event.  Wow, what a shock that an organization like the BSA (that has a history of LGBTQ discrimination) would have a person like 45 (who announced a ban on transgender members of the military via twitter) to speak at their Jamboree and that they would invite him back.  Color me not at all surprised.  

Something @SueSTx said stuck out to me.  It's this notion of "fake news."  Sue, I think you have some good questions about how many parents complained and why the BSA would invite POTUS back if he's still in office for their next Jamboree.  I'm curious about those things too.  I have no idea how many parents complained but it seems like enough did for the BSA to offer an apology to them.  So, probably not an insignificant amount.  As for your other question, I imagine the reason they would give would be that it's tradition to invite the sitting POTUS to speak and they feel that tradition is important.  Or it could be that they don't really care that POTUS offended people because they are big fans of his.  Who knows?  But I'm curious as to why you would assume the stories are fake news because these questions aren't answered.  Oftentimes, I have additional questions while reading stories but I wouldn't necessarily assume that a news article is "fake news" because my questions weren't answered in the article.  I'm curious as to why you would assume it's a "fake news" story if those questions aren't answered already.  

I've always thought of "fake news" as those websites that "publish" nonsense like the stories about the people Hillary and Bill allegedly murdered with their own bare hands or (for a more recent example) the PIzzagate story.  Websites that don't have a well-known history in journalism and are pretty recent and exist only on the web and look like sites run by angry dudes sitting around in their underwear who have nothing better to do than publish BS stories to rile up people on extreme ends of the political spectrum.  One of my dear friends from high school has a history of reading these sorts of stories regularly and she'd rant on about all the people Hillary murdered and it was very sad to see.  She totally bought the PIzzagate story because a bunch of losers who have nothing better to do than weave conspiracy theories on 4chan convinced her that Pizzagate was real.  That nonsense is "fake news' in my opinion.  It just seems like the term "fake news" is thrown around a lot these days.  



 

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Maybe not fake/false...but just exaggerated!  Hubby watches Fox and CNN nearly all day.  It is amazing the stories that are reported there and on MSN, but when 'googled' there is barely a story at all...or go to snopes and they are mostly false.

So to me...if it isn't real/true or mostly than it is "fake".

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1 hour ago, SueSTx said:

Maybe not fake/false...but just exaggerated!  Hubby watches Fox and CNN nearly all day.  It is amazing the stories that are reported there and on MSN, but when 'googled' there is barely a story at all...or go to snopes and they are mostly false.

So to me...if it isn't real/true or mostly than it is "fake".

I would be very interested to know which stories CNN, Fox and MSN/MSNBC extensively reported that were later disproven on Snopes.

It's sad that the BSA address was considered such a big news story, but the way POTUS conducted (or rather, misconducted) himself was unavoidably newsworthy.

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6 hours ago, britomart said:

 

While I don't see the humor in OP's post, I do agree that the BSA has a history of discrimination.  And it's not something that is ancient history.  It's pretty recent.  Until this decade the BSA had bans on granting membership to LGBTQ people and had a ban on LGBTQ leaders.  I think it was only as recently as 2015 that the BSA voted to lift that ban on LGBTQ leaders.  And while the national ban has been lifted I understand that there are still local groups that do not allow LGBTQ members or leaders.  
 

Points taken. But the OP seemed to be focusing on race, not sexual orientation or gender identity.

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6 hours ago, britomart said:

 

But I'm curious as to why you would assume the stories are fake news because these questions aren't answered.  Oftentimes, I have additional questions while reading stories but I wouldn't necessarily assume that a news article is "fake news" because my questions weren't answered in the article.  I'm curious as to why you would assume it's a "fake news" story if those questions aren't answered already.  

 

I know this question was in response to Sue's comments and that she already answered it herself. But I'm thinking the accusation of "fake news" is heard so often, these days, that it would be easy, IMO, for someone to say about any news story, in effect, "Hmmm... Something doesn't add up here - could it be more fake news?" A sign of the times, perhaps, unfortunately.

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Re: "fake news" on major TV channels - Apparently, Fox is currently being accused of a fake news story. I'm at the library where I can't C & P. But if you google "fake news stories on fox" or "fake news and fox" or even just "fake news fox," you'll see a number of articles on it.

In fact, this has given me the idea for a new thread in The Great Debate forum:

 

 

Edited by RoseRed135
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IT's interesting to me that those who deny there is such a thing as fake news, have way before Trump was even on the scene, accused FOX news of "fake news".

I think of this analogy.  Trump is to fake news as Clinton is to "a vast right wing conspiracy".

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On 8/2/2017 at 3:43 PM, skipped said:

 

I think of this analogy.  Trump is to fake news as Clinton is to "a vast right wing conspiracy".

Meaning, simply, that they each are known for (among many other things, of course) the respective claims? Or that each has made widespread claims about something? Or??

Edited by RoseRed135

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7 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Meaning, simply, that they each are known for (among many other things, of course) the respective claims? Or that each has made widespread claims about something? Or??

Using a partial true comment to blame shift.  Thereby completely not taking ANY responsibility for their own behavior.  Do I think there is fake news- Yes.  Do I think the right likes to point out what bad things the left have done- yes (and visa versa).   But whenever anyone points out anything they've done that's not kosher- both  it as a political ploy to shift responsibility.

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29 minutes ago, skipped said:

Using a partial true comment to blame shift.  Thereby completely not taking ANY responsibility for their own behavior.  Do I think there is fake news- Yes.  Do I think the right likes to point out what bad things the left have done- yes (and visa versa).   But whenever anyone points out anything they've done that's not kosher- both  it as a political ploy to shift responsibility.

Ok, I got it skipped. Thanks!

Edited by RoseRed135
typo

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Many people regardless of their age have given up on making an effort to keep up on what's going in the world by watching, reading or listening to the news- Not because every news story is fake, but since forever a large part of news coverage is either half truths or half lies -- but not the entire story, perhaps- News can't be the truth for the most part- It can't be because a major portion of reporting involves reporting government activity -- and every government on earth is run by people who lie- And these people who lie influence the media corporations and the media corporations influence the reporters working for them- Together they all aim to influence the general population because x percentage of the general population votes as well as buys -- buys into their stories, buys products they advertise- As a result they buy into war, the killing of innocent people, the displacement of innocent people whose stories don't get reported by most news outlets-

Reporters who are hellbent on telling the truth are part of a very small group that either wouldn't get hired as a reporter for well known news outlets or as a result of their compulsion to report the truth were fired- But they're out there-

 

Edited by Komorebi

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