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RoseRed135

Estrangement - "reasons" v. "excuses?"... possible triggers...

22 posts in this topic

So often when I hear of someone being CO (cut off) by their adult son/daughter, parent, PIL or whoever, I also hear/hear of somebody else asking them if they were given any reasons. And just as often, the answer comes back, "No. I asked for reasons, but all I got were excuses."

But now I'm thinking... What's the difference between "reasons" & "excuses," if any,  in the case of estrangement? How can you (general) tell which is which?

Thoughts? Experiences? Observations?

Edited by RoseRed135
clarity

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RedRose135   All  I can say at this point is they are self centered and forgot the love given them. I think after you marry many seem to let the IL's cloud your vision and at some point you give in. When my oldest tried to make-up with my son my DIL said to her, I'm the one he sleeps with. When my youngest DD tried to get my son to sit and talk he said, "I didn't come up here for this ****."

Six months later my youngest was killed, & he never spoke to her that whole 6 months, and saw her again  in her Coffin. Then my DIL proceeded to go down the family until she alienated him from all of us. She was divorced and told me, I will not take any ****, from him, I'll move back to Florida. So in our minds he takes the **** to keep his daughter. Our 2 girls were VERY close to our son and honestly I think she was jealous of that, she showed it in many ways. A lot of lies, and he caught her himself.

Our DD let her husband throw her DD out, not his, & wanted her in a Foster Home. When we took her in he got mad and HE cut ties with us, and my 3 GR Kids.His parents have $ so money was the deal braker for my DD.You see Money Does Talk.I will say though, my 2 adult children are as much to blame as the IL's because they could and should be resolving this. Our youngest was killed and they both know how it has torn our hearts apart.

I would a open my door to my children, but at this point not my DIL or my SIL. They all pay not 1 bit of attention to ,my Grand-son who has no Mother, shame on them.

So I guess in their eyes it's reason this case. As for my DIL I think her jealousy made it an excuse. For what ever it has broken me and my husbands hearts even more apart. We are parents of 3 children , yet have no children.

Edited by SueSTx
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I think it isn't uncommon for people to find excuses for people they love when something they do is out of line- It happens in almost every kind of relationship, even with pets- When people make excuses for what others do that they love I think of it like them pledging their allegiance to those people, or animal/s- Also people don't necessarily have to have done anything "wrong" to get cutoff, they simply might not be liked for who they are as people- And odd as it may seem some people don't like how other people "get along"- Be it their dynamic or personality, it simply isn't their cup of tea- They might laugh too loud, at too many things or be thought of as entirely too quiet for someone's liking because it isn't what they're used to- So sometimes in order not to get cut off a person has to change something about themselves that's deeply ingrained- Or not- And simply carry on without those people in their lives- Worse could happen, and has for some, which makes people's preferences and tendencies to find excuses at times seem so very trivial when both sides dig their heels in over such stuff- These, to me, are examples of excuses because they're employed to cover flaws-

A reason on the other hand provides a cause, an explanation of what is going wrong and why-

 

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6 hours ago, godsgifts said:

RedRose135   All  I can say at this point is they are self centered and forgot the love given them. I think after you marry many seem to let the IL's cloud your vision and at some point you give in. When my oldest tried to make-up with my son my DIL said to her, I'm the one he sleeps with. When my youngest DD tried to get my son to sit and talk he said, "I didn't come up here for this ****."

Six months later my youngest was killed, & he never spoke to her that whole 6 months, and saw her again  in her Coffin. Then my DIL proceeded to go down the family until she alienated him from all of us. She was divorced and told me, I will not take any ****, from him, I'll move back to Florida. So in our minds he takes the **** to keep his daughter. Our 2 girls were VERY close to our son and honestly I think she was jealous of that, she showed it in many ways. A lot of lies, and he caught her himself.

Our DD let her husband throw her DD out, not his, & wanted her in a Foster Home. When we took her in he got mad and HE cut ties with us, and my 3 GR Kids.His parents have $ so money was the deal braker for my DD.You see Money Does Talk.I will say though, my 2 adult children are as much to blame as the IL's because they could and should be resolving this. Our youngest was killed and they both know how it has torn our hearts apart.

I would a open my door to my children, but at this point not my DIL or my SIL. They all pay not 1 bit of attention to ,my Grand-son who has no Mother, shame on them.

So I guess in their eyes it's reason this case. As for my DIL I think her jealousy made it an excuse. For what ever it has broken me and my husbands hearts even more apart. We are parents of 3 children , yet have no children.

When all someone can offer is, "I didn't come up here for this ****", they're offering an excuse-

Edited by SueSTx
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9 hours ago, Komorebi said:

I think it isn't uncommon for people to find excuses for people they love when something they do is out of line- It happens in almost every kind of relationship, even with pets- When people make excuses for what others do that they love I think of it like them pledging their allegiance to those people, or animal/s- Also people don't necessarily have to have done anything "wrong" to get cutoff, they simply might not be liked for who they are as people- And odd as it may seem some people don't like how other people "get along"- Be it their dynamic or personality, it simply isn't their cup of tea- They might laugh too loud, at too many things or be thought of as entirely too quiet for someone's liking because it isn't what they're used to- So sometimes in order not to get cut off a person has to change something about themselves that's deeply ingrained- Or not- And simply carry on without those people in their lives- Worse could happen, and has for some, which makes people's preferences and tendencies to find excuses at times seem so very trivial when both sides dig their heels in over such stuff- These, to me, are examples of excuses because they're employed to cover flaws-

A reason on the other hand provides a cause, an explanation of what is going wrong and why-

 

Well I guess then my DIL may have been excuse : She argued with my DD all the time and as I said she was jealous of them being close and she lied ALL the time. My DD lent her maternity clothes and when she asked for them back mind you 5 different times she said she didn't have them, didn't know where they were? My DD said just tell me the truth where are my  clothes. Still I don't know.  She lent her 5 things to use with the baby, a swings etc, 3 of 5 came back broken, and they got mad AT her when she asked about it. They said  "Well what do you want us to do buy new ones? " She was so mad she just said no but it would have been nice to tell me you broke them in the 1st place. My son had minor surgery once and when she went to see him w/her 3 yr old she told her he was sleeping  but they could sit out back and she'd let her know when he woke up.  Later my DD had twins and when ever they had a party or some event she lugged the twins to ALL  events what ever age including months. She had a BD party for the twins once and when her brother called and said they could not come because his wife said it  was too far a trip for their DD to ride my DD went nuts and had an argument with him and told him in no uncertain terms after maybe 10 yrs of her lying just what she thought of her. So part of her "excuse" I guess was they were tired of the of the arguing all the time, which was always caused by her lying. There were may incidents with her and my DD I could go into back to the age of  when she was 16,  she was absolutely jealous and just plain lied and lied all the time. We all saw  and heard it but my DD just finally had enough.  By the way, my husband did try and stay out of it and let them handle it, the only thing we did was try and get him to talk with her and some how make up.   

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10 hours ago, Komorebi said:

These, to me, are examples of excuses because they're employed to cover flaws- Or perhaps to hide the real reasons/b/c the person can't bring themselves to give the real reason?

A reason on the other hand provides a cause, an explanation of what is going wrong and why-

 

Thanks Komo! I appreciate the distinction you made.

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Is it possible, people, that sometimes, one person's "reason" is another's  "excuse" and vice versa?

For example, on EGP boards, I've often seen a poster say something like, "DS says it's b/c I gave unsolicited advice. But that's just an excuse. All mom's give advice. That's not a reason to cut a mom off! There must be something else." 

Yet, chances are, DS would say, "No, it not just an excuse.  Unsolicited advice is definitely the reason."

Does that make any sense?

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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RoseRed135   To be honest as far as my DIL she would have found any REASON or EXCUSE to have my son and DD's esp. the oldest to not get along because they were very close. Excuse or reason, he was 30 when they married so by now they WERE all 3 very close, and she told us when she 1st met us how she could not stand her brothers and sister. But then again who knows maybe all that was a lie. All I know is she has torn our entire family apart, and I don't care if I NEVER see HER again, she is NEVER welcome in my home or my life again.

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1 minute ago, godsgifts said:

RoseRed135   To be honest as far as my DIL she would have found any REASON or EXCUSE to have my son and DD's esp. the oldest to not get along because they were very close. Excuse or reason, he was 30 when they married so by now they WERE all 3 very close, and she told us when she 1st met us how she could not stand her brothers and sister. But then again who knows maybe all that was a lie. All I know is she has torn our entire family apart, and I don't care if I NEVER see HER again, she is NEVER welcome in my home or my life again.

I hear you!

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11 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Thanks Komo! I appreciate the distinction you made.

Rose, I think if someone offers an excuse, it's an excuse- Could they offer an excuse instead of a reason? Yes, I think they can- Excuses aren't fake reasons, they're just excuses- When people say "real reason" what do they mean? 

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11 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Is it possible, people, that sometimes, one person's "reason" is another's  "excuse" and vice versa?

For example, on EGP boards, I've often seen a poster say something like, "DS says it's b/c I gave unsolicited advice. But that's just an excuse. All mom's give advice. That's not a reason to cut a mom off! There must be something else." 

Yet, chances are, DS would say, "No, it not just an excuse.  Unsolicited advice is definitely the reason."

Does that make any sense?

 

Yes, I think you made sense- :)

The last straw is only 1 straw- So it certainly could seem like it was only 1 thing that caused a cut off but I think it's usually the weight of all the other straws including the last- If all those other straws weren't discussed I think it only stands to "reason" why that last straw could look like an excuse- Then again people have different thresholds and 1 time of 1 thing happening could do it, but the "reason" why it only took 1 thing to do it is because of a low threshold, too- And by low threshold I mean lack of tolerance for one thing or another- Sometimes people like this are just as hard on themselves as they are on others, which is something to consider too- 

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12 hours ago, godsgifts said:

Well I guess then my DIL may have been excuse : She argued with my DD all the time and as I said she was jealous of them being close and she lied ALL the time. My DD lent her maternity clothes and when she asked for them back mind you 5 different times she said she didn't have them, didn't know where they were? My DD said just tell me the truth where are my  clothes. Still I don't know.  She lent her 5 things to use with the baby, a swings etc, 3 of 5 came back broken, and they got mad AT her when she asked about it. They said  "Well what do you want us to do buy new ones? " She was so mad she just said no but it would have been nice to tell me you broke them in the 1st place. My son had minor surgery once and when she went to see him w/her 3 yr old she told her he was sleeping  but they could sit out back and she'd let her know when he woke up.  Later my DD had twins and when ever they had a party or some event she lugged the twins to ALL  events what ever age including months. She had a BD party for the twins once and when her brother called and said they could not come because his wife said it  was too far a trip for their DD to ride my DD went nuts and had an argument with him and told him in no uncertain terms after maybe 10 yrs of her lying just what she thought of her. So part of her "excuse" I guess was they were tired of the of the arguing all the time, which was always caused by her lying. There were may incidents with her and my DD I could go into back to the age of  when she was 16,  she was absolutely jealous and just plain lied and lied all the time. We all saw  and heard it but my DD just finally had enough.  By the way, my husband did try and stay out of it and let them handle it, the only thing we did was try and get him to talk with her and some how make up.   

It sounds to me like your son's hands are tied- He loves his child- When he said what he did to you and your husband he simply could have said something like, "Mom, Dad, I understand we have unresolved issues but today I'm just here to see the both of you"- He may have come to see the both of you because he needed a break from the situation at his home if it is as stressful as you describe- He simply might be frightened, he might not be thinking about anything else but losing his child- I'm not supporting his method by any means, just trying to describe where his head might be at- He could also be feeling broken inside but is totally reluctant to discuss it because as soon as he tries he thinks his world will fall to pieces considering all that has taken place prior to the loss of his sister, her death, and everything that has followed since- That's an awful lot for one person to hold inside-

One time I had a serious discussion with my daughter and son in-law about the children- He said something along the lines of what your son did- "I dont have to sit here and listen to .." but my daughter put her hand on his knee and looked into his eyes and said, "Yes, "we" do"- And they did- It's so easy for anyone to go on the defensive when the truth hurts- I did my best to point out matters that were of concern as well as encourage to the best of my own ability, all things considered ..

Someone on this forum responded to one of my posts some time ago and it opened my eyes and my heart at the same time- It completely shifted my view- And I will love that member for the rest of my life for reaching out to me when they did, saying what they did in the kind, simple manner that they did- It changed my life- So I hope you keep coming back here too to express how you feel about things as you have been doing and hopefully someone will say something to you that assists in lifting your burden as it did mine- You've been through so much, my heart goes out to you-  

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12 hours ago, Komorebi said:

It sounds to me like your son's hands are tied- He loves his child- When he said what he did to you and your husband he simply could have said something like, "Mom, Dad, I understand we have unresolved issues but today I'm just here to see the both of you"- He may have come to see the both of you because he needed a break from the situation at his home if it is as stressful as you describe- He simply might be frightened, he might not be thinking about anything else but losing his child- I'm not supporting his method by any means, just trying to describe where his head might be at- He could also be feeling broken inside but is totally reluctant to discuss it because as soon as he tries he thinks his world will fall to pieces considering all that has taken place prior to the loss of his sister, her death, and everything that has followed since- That's an awful lot for one person to hold inside-

One time I had a serious discussion with my daughter and son in-law about the children- He said something along the lines of what your son did- "I dont have to sit here and listen to .." but my daughter put her hand on his knee and looked into his eyes and said, "Yes, "we" do"- And they did- It's so easy for anyone to go on the defensive when the truth hurts- I did my best to point out matters that were of concern as well as encourage to the best of my own ability, all things considered ..

Someone on this forum responded to one of my posts some time ago and it opened my eyes and my heart at the same time- It completely shifted my view- And I will love that member for the rest of my life for reaching out to me when they did, saying what they did in the kind, simple manner that they did- It changed my life- So I hope you keep coming back here too to express how you feel about things as you have been doing and hopefully someone will say something to you that assists in lifting your burden as it did mine- You've been through so much, my heart goes out to you-  

Well that is exactly how I feel his hands are tied, it's his child or else. She does lie so much GOD knows what all she has said to him. I've come to live with it and he has to live with his part of it. One sad part is not seeing his baby sister for 6 months before she died with his comment to her, plus seeing  her crying at the kitchen table. If someday he calls or knocks on my door he is more than welcome with open arms, I love him and I miss him. I raised him almost be myself for 4 yrs while my husband was in the Marines, we were very close.  I do appreciate your comments just they about hit the nail on the head. I have to deal with the pain of the loss of my DD and that is where my love and energy goes, she deserves all I can give her, she did not have a choice to leave me. Thanks for you kind words.  

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34 minutes ago, godsgifts said:

Well that is exactly how I feel his hands are tied, it's his child or else. She does lie so much GOD knows what all she has said to him. I've come to live with it and he has to live with his part of it. One sad part is not seeing his baby sister for 6 months before she died with his comment to her, plus seeing  her crying at the kitchen table. If someday he calls or knocks on my door he is more than welcome with open arms, I love him and I miss him. I raised him almost be myself for 4 yrs while my husband was in the Marines, we were very close.  I do appreciate your comments just they about hit the nail on the head. I have to deal with the pain of the loss of my DD and that is where my love and energy goes, she deserves all I can give her, she did not have a choice to leave me. Thanks for you kind words.  

Yes, the greatest medicine for such a tragedy is never ending love- You will be in my thoughts-

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8 hours ago, godsgifts said:

Well that is exactly how I feel his hands are tied, it's his child or else. She does lie so much GOD knows what all she has said to him. I've come to live with it and he has to live with his part of it. One sad part is not seeing his baby sister for 6 months before she died with his comment to her, plus seeing  her crying at the kitchen table. If someday he calls or knocks on my door he is more than welcome with open arms, I love him and I miss him. I raised him almost be myself for 4 yrs while my husband was in the Marines, we were very close.  I do appreciate your comments just they about hit the nail on the head. I have to deal with the pain of the loss of my DD and that is where my love and energy goes, she deserves all I can give her, she did not have a choice to leave me. Thanks for you kind words.  

I just wanted to add that I think sometimes people enter into the circles of our lives and we can't see the reason behind how that came to be no matter how hard we try, no matter how we twist and turn the circumstances around in our minds to make sense of it-  And its frustrating (to put it mildly..) to witness the destruction unfold-

Edited by Komorebi
hope that post makes some sense now that i edited it .. :)
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I think i would rather hear reasons or excuses than to never know why I was pushed out.  So to me I would take either.  In my situation I spend a lot of time wondering what i did wrong.  I am just treated poorly and treated like I am not even in the room or I am not acknowledged when I speak and talked over.  And I am blamed for household appliances being broken while visiting haha.  

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Now in thinking about the initial question a reason to me is more of a statement of facts that lead up to any given situation.  An excuse to me is something a person says to be excused from the fault of a situation.

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18 hours ago, Gramster58 said:

I think i would rather hear reasons or excuses than to never know why I was pushed out.  So to me I would take either.  In my situation I spend a lot of time wondering what i did wrong.  I am just treated poorly and treated like I am not even in the room or I am not acknowledged when I speak and talked over.  And I am blamed for household appliances being broken while visiting haha.  

That's so funny! The very same thing happened to me LMAO .. I went through a period of happening to be the person using something when it quit- Of course if something quit when someone else was using it, it was normal or the thing was old, defective, whatever- But never them! hahahah .. thanks for sharing that! :)

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I think sometimes, 'excuse' translates to, "I don't agree with their reasons, so therefore, they aren't the true reasons."

For some folks, there's simply no reason that would ever be valid.

I know someone who's child has been fed their allergen three times in a row at their grandparent's home, so the child is no longer allowed at the grandparent's, and grandparents are forbidden from bringing food into child's home.

But it's just an *excuse*, according to the grandparent. The REAL reason is that their CIL *hates* them, and wants to ruin their family.

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On 8/10/2017 at 2:52 PM, Gramster58 said:

 And I am blamed for household appliances being broken while visiting haha.  

 

On 8/11/2017 at 9:37 AM, Komorebi said:

That's so funny! The very same thing happened to me LMAO .. I went through a period of happening to be the person using something when it quit- Of course if something quit when someone else was using it, it was normal or the thing was old, defective, whatever- But never them! hahahah .. thanks for sharing that! :)

I have to say.... DH quit working on his FOO's computers, appliances, electronics etc. when after several times of fixing things for them, when the item broke 6 months later or longer they would blame it on him. WTH? He'd fix an item, make it better for them, save them money, not charge them for time or parts, and MONTHS or YEARS later they'd come back to him and say he broke it because he was the one who worked on it. It took a few times but he totally quit working on anything for any of them. He only worked on things for them he knew how to and did and got paid to do for a living and had been doing it for YEARS. They had a LOT of nerve. Now they have to hire a "professional who is not family" and pay a small fortune to fix or replace items. We are better off though. No longer being taken advantage of in this way at least.

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20 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

 

I have to say.... DH quit working on his FOO's computers, appliances, electronics etc. when after several times of fixing things for them, when the item broke 6 months later or longer they would blame it on him. WTH? He'd fix an item, make it better for them, save them money, not charge them for time or parts, and MONTHS or YEARS later they'd come back to him and say he broke it because he was the one who worked on it. It took a few times but he totally quit working on anything for any of them. He only worked on things for them he knew how to and did and got paid to do for a living and had been doing it for YEARS. They had a LOT of nerve. Now they have to hire a "professional who is not family" and pay a small fortune to fix or replace items. We are better off though. No longer being taken advantage of in this way at least.

It just strikes me so funny how that works- Something could be a complete relic from the turn of the century or worse, from China, and they're like nope, you broke it .. hahaha .. 

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On 8/9/2017 at 8:12 AM, RoseRed135 said:

Is it possible, people, that sometimes, one person's "reason" is another's  "excuse" and vice versa?

For example, on EGP boards, I've often seen a poster say something like, "DS says it's b/c I gave unsolicited advice. But that's just an excuse. All mom's give advice. That's not a reason to cut a mom off! There must be something else." 

Yet, chances are, DS would say, "No, it not just an excuse.  Unsolicited advice is definitely the reason."

Does that make any sense?

EGP is willfully misunderstanding. Or purposefully, your choice.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

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