• Announcements

    • LatoyaADMIN

      What to do if you get a "Wrong Password" message   01/21/16

      You must reset your password (even if you know it's the right one) before you can sign into the community. Thanks to the upgrade, there's an issue with passwords and signing in. The good news is that you can click here: http://community.grandparents.com/index.php?/lostpassword/ to change your password (it'll let you reuse your old one). If you can't reach the email address connected to your account then please contact the admin at latoya@grandparents.com and I'll help you sort it out. 
    • LatoyaADMIN

      Anonymous posting is back   01/21/16

      We've removed the extra step that required you to go to the full-page editor to access the anonymous post option. Now, you can reply to a post and toggle the button to post anonymous (see photo below).    Read more on anonymous posting here:    In short, the mods can see who posts as anonymous, we moderate anonymous posts the same as revealed posts, you can reply anonymously to your own topic, you may report anonymous posts.
GrandNonna

June 21 2017 Hearing

12 posts in this topic

I've felt God in the courtroom with me every time I went. Even on June 21. My status updates in court were all going smoothly. I requested and was granted a witness subpoena  because the individual who was subpoena into court called asking if I want to see her Dec 23 but then cancelled me the hour before claiming she knew where DD lives and she gave hints but refused to give address. I need this to serve documents. The judge told me i would be able to ask her any questions I needed to and explained how this would work.  In court she appeared with my DD and the father. She stepped up to the bench and said she didn't know the physical address only how to get there. She then had my DD stand beside her as she stood between us and spoke for DD asking the judge if DD can file a restraining order against me and was told no. He then asked DD for her address and she whined " I'm uncomfortable with that" famous last words of her tainted friend from L.A. 

I never had my question time and prepared my questions. The judge asked me if I had my petition . I did and was told to serve DD and I did. He told her she had 28 days to answer of which she failed to do. On status update in May no response to the petition therefore the judge told me to prepare my motion and my notice of motion. DD was sitting in a chair in the room reading a book . She fled when I turned around after being ordered to file motion and notice. I had already prepared my documents and walked to the clerks office to upload them. Again saw DD in the viewing room asking for some other documents which I would have givin her . I gave her the notice and the motion for visitation and then stepped back in the doorway . When she turned around I asked do you want to talk to me? She said NO! Because you cause trouble and she walked away . "Famous behavior of my GS father"  As she turned it seemed like she may be pregnant . 

My June 21 hearing came and I brought with me witness to let the courts know the children are always happy when visiting , jumping up and down upon my arrival and aren't ever distressed when with me but always content . I brought document on the fathers spouse in regards to her self harm and a video of GS. Here was my feedback.

Judge: Do you understand the grandparent visitation law?

Me: Yes your honor I do.

Judge: Your daughter doesn't want you to see your grandchildren does she?

Me: No your honor and for no cause.

Judge: I'm going to DENY your motion . I have to stand by what the supreme court rulings are . This is how it is in every state even Ct. 

Me: But what about other considerations your honor? My family relationship and the bond we have had?

Judge: I'm sorry but until this law changes I cannot write an order.

 

All these months I was encouraged by the Judge, his secretary was as shocked as I was and still am. I have since then been in touch and have had live feedback from the district Senator and his legal assistant.I have asked for an in person appointment to bring to the tables this profound law and how it must be revised . The assistant has been in touch with the capitol and they have pulled the portion of the general assembly law that says a Grandparent must show how this is emotionally physically and or psychologically harmful to a child and left it blank. I have submitted what I feel is needed. This law has never been voted on or challenged. This law has some serious constitutional errors in it. My uphill is a nightmare and it is all because of a law that should be written for the best interest of a child and elderly grandparents. There was no question as to WHY the deprivation is taking place. There was no question to the mental stability of the parent . America? No. Third world country if any at all. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GrandNonna said:

I've felt God in the courtroom with me every time I went. Even on June 21. My status updates in court were all going smoothly. I requested and was granted a witness subpoena  because the individual who was subpoena into court called asking if I want to see her Dec 23 but then cancelled me the hour before claiming she knew where DD lives and she gave hints but refused to give address. I need this to serve documents. The judge told me i would be able to ask her any questions I needed to and explained how this would work.  In court she appeared with my DD and the father. She stepped up to the bench and said she didn't know the physical address only how to get there. She then had my DD stand beside her as she stood between us and spoke for DD asking the judge if DD can file a restraining order against me and was told no. He then asked DD for her address and she whined " I'm uncomfortable with that" famous last words of her tainted friend from L.A. 

I never had my question time and prepared my questions. The judge asked me if I had my petition . I did and was told to serve DD and I did. He told her she had 28 days to answer of which she failed to do. On status update in May no response to the petition therefore the judge told me to prepare my motion and my notice of motion. DD was sitting in a chair in the room reading a book . She fled when I turned around after being ordered to file motion and notice. I had already prepared my documents and walked to the clerks office to upload them. Again saw DD in the viewing room asking for some other documents which I would have givin her . I gave her the notice and the motion for visitation and then stepped back in the doorway . When she turned around I asked do you want to talk to me? She said NO! Because you cause trouble and she walked away . "Famous behavior of my GS father"  As she turned it seemed like she may be pregnant . 

My June 21 hearing came and I brought with me witness to let the courts know the children are always happy when visiting , jumping up and down upon my arrival and aren't ever distressed when with me but always content . I brought document on the fathers spouse in regards to her self harm and a video of GS. Here was my feedback.

Judge: Do you understand the grandparent visitation law?

Me: Yes your honor I do.

Judge: Your daughter doesn't want you to see your grandchildren does she?

Me: No your honor and for no cause.

Judge: I'm going to DENY your motion . I have to stand by what the supreme court rulings are . This is how it is in every state even Ct. 

Me: But what about other considerations your honor? My family relationship and the bond we have had?

Judge: I'm sorry but until this law changes I cannot write an order.

 

All these months I was encouraged by the Judge, his secretary was as shocked as I was and still am. I have since then been in touch and have had live feedback from the district Senator and his legal assistant.I have asked for an in person appointment to bring to the tables this profound law and how it must be revised . The assistant has been in touch with the capitol and they have pulled the portion of the general assembly law that says a Grandparent must show how this is emotionally physically and or psychologically harmful to a child and left it blank. I have submitted what I feel is needed. This law has never been voted on or challenged. This law has some serious constitutional errors in it. My uphill is a nightmare and it is all because of a law that should be written for the best interest of a child and elderly grandparents. There was no question as to WHY the deprivation is taking place. There was no question to the mental stability of the parent . America? No. Third world country if any at all. 

 

 

 

Wow. Thanks for updating us, GN! I'm so sorry you were disappointed yet again. I'm especially sorry b/c you feel you were misled by the judge. 

Me: But what about other considerations your honor? My family relationship and the bond we have had?...

The assistant has been in touch with the capitol and they have pulled the portion of the general assembly law that says a Grandparent must show how this is emotionally physically and or psychologically harmful to a child and left it blank.

So I take it that the prior GP/GC relationship is no longer a factor in your state's visitation law? And that no one informed you of this until after your motion was denied? Somebody dropped the ball there. How awful! My heart goes out to you!

This law has some serious constitutional errors in it.

This ^^^ and the removal of the passage mentioned above are probably among the reasons the judge couldn't write an order for you. That doesn't make the situation any better for you, I know. But I hope it helps to realize he wasn't being deliberately cruel or thoughtless towards you.

My uphill is a nightmare and it is all because of a law that should be written for the best interest of a child and elderly grandparents.

No doubt, this is "a nightmare" for you. (((Hugs!))) If a parent wrote this ^^^^, however, they might very well say "the best interest of a child and their parents."  In the end, I think, the law has to focus on what's best for the child, period. But there's often an assumption that the parents have the child's best interest in mind. And, of course, the parents have some basic rights over their kids that GPs just don't have. So it doesn't surprise me that this is an "uphill" battle for you as a GP. That would be true in almost any state - possibly all of them, from what I understand.

It seems as if you intend to keep fighting, "uphill" or not. Hope you continue to keep us posted!

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rose ,

The manipulation that I have observed is enough to send someone to have their head examined. I don't know why I feel this way but i do . Seems like when I filed my petitions ... within 2 weeks the law changed. And without looking it up I can remember. In 2013 the law said that if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law that GP MAY  file petition. Then things worked out after mediation and we DD and I , moved on from 2013 to 2014 until  the father with the developmental disability as his lawyer puts it  for her 35 year old client , interfered again with visits and GD complained about his shower interludes with her which led me back to court . Again within 2 weeks after my Dec 2015 petition the law changed to read if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law a GP MAY NOT file petition. Ok maybe I am wrong but if a law takes me one year to get an live feedback answers from my district Senator and his legal assistant then how on earth can someone get this law changed so fast and in such a perfectly timed manner? Now I know that the putitive fathers late great grandmother's third husband is involved with the republician commission and makes contributions but can it be? Is it possible that he or someone he knows is doing something? And why on earth do I have to follow the new laws when I filed under an old one? Tomorrow I drop off my petition to the Senators office and am asking for an in person meeting with him as well as the Governor who I wrote to on Friday . I am sad just thinking  about the abuse and the words and how my GK's have had to contend, how DHS is worthless and only upsetting to families and do nothing when they are most needed. (((( Hugs)))) to you too and thank you .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Sigh...

Meanwhile, you're welcome, GN! And thanks for the hugs in return!

ETA: I'm sure the effectiveness of DHS and similar agencies depends on the state, the specific agency, itself, and the individual agents.

Edited by RoseRed135

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 7:32 PM, GrandNonna said:

I've felt God in the courtroom with me every time I went. Even on June 21. My status updates in court were all going smoothly. I requested and was granted a witness subpoena  because the individual who was subpoena into court called asking if I want to see her Dec 23 but then cancelled me the hour before claiming she knew where DD lives and she gave hints but refused to give address. I need this to serve documents. The judge told me i would be able to ask her any questions I needed to and explained how this would work.  In court she appeared with my DD and the father. She stepped up to the bench and said she didn't know the physical address only how to get there. She then had my DD stand beside her as she stood between us and spoke for DD asking the judge if DD can file a restraining order against me and was told no. He then asked DD for her address and she whined " I'm uncomfortable with that" famous last words of her tainted friend from L.A. 

I never had my question time and prepared my questions. The judge asked me if I had my petition . I did and was told to serve DD and I did. He told her she had 28 days to answer of which she failed to do. On status update in May no response to the petition therefore the judge told me to prepare my motion and my notice of motion. DD was sitting in a chair in the room reading a book . She fled when I turned around after being ordered to file motion and notice. I had already prepared my documents and walked to the clerks office to upload them. Again saw DD in the viewing room asking for some other documents which I would have givin her . I gave her the notice and the motion for visitation and then stepped back in the doorway . When she turned around I asked do you want to talk to me? She said NO! Because you cause trouble and she walked away . "Famous behavior of my GS father"  As she turned it seemed like she may be pregnant . 

My June 21 hearing came and I brought with me witness to let the courts know the children are always happy when visiting , jumping up and down upon my arrival and aren't ever distressed when with me but always content . I brought document on the fathers spouse in regards to her self harm and a video of GS. Here was my feedback.

Judge: Do you understand the grandparent visitation law?

Me: Yes your honor I do.

Judge: Your daughter doesn't want you to see your grandchildren does she?

Me: No your honor and for no cause.

Judge: I'm going to DENY your motion . I have to stand by what the supreme court rulings are . This is how it is in every state even Ct. 

Me: But what about other considerations your honor? My family relationship and the bond we have had?

Judge: I'm sorry but until this law changes I cannot write an order.

 

All these months I was encouraged by the Judge, his secretary was as shocked as I was and still am. I have since then been in touch and have had live feedback from the district Senator and his legal assistant.I have asked for an in person appointment to bring to the tables this profound law and how it must be revised . The assistant has been in touch with the capitol and they have pulled the portion of the general assembly law that says a Grandparent must show how this is emotionally physically and or psychologically harmful to a child and left it blank. I have submitted what I feel is needed. This law has never been voted on or challenged. This law has some serious constitutional errors in it. My uphill is a nightmare and it is all because of a law that should be written for the best interest of a child and elderly grandparents. There was no question as to WHY the deprivation is taking place. There was no question to the mental stability of the parent . America? No. Third world country if any at all. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry for the out come of your court hearing.  I  know when we went to court with the dead beat BF of our Gr-son the Judge made the comment the child belongs with the Natural Parent. He let the drugs and all the fighting w/my daughter just go over his head and out the window.  We think what saved us was the Phycologist, his I might add, who did his evaluation and knew in his heart he was a drugged up fueled dead beat, who did beat our DD and we were afraid of the drugs and that he would beat out GR-son. He also knew the BF DID have a temper and a short FUZE.  He told the dead beat Dad to go in the Court and he'd request the Judge give us all 50% Custody and the Judge finally agreed saying. OMG   "Because your daughter WAS KILLED I'll grant you the 50% Custody."  What the Phycologist did was, make the BF feel he might loose ALL custody because of his reputation, but he was actually helping us win some Custody, NOT THE JUDGE.  

The hell with the drugs, beatings, the hell with All grand children are known to have a better life if Grand Parents are in their lives. We thought the Judge was as much a DB as the DB BF.  I know the laws are tough on Grand-Parents, but really when drugs alcohol or neglect are involved, the Courts need to take a better look at the Parents.

I know with our GR-DD when she turned 16 wanted to go home and we fought it. They said she's old enough to decide, REALLY !!. We said, "But the Step-Dad  even said, He doesn't have to change and he won't change."  They sent her home, and low and behold we got her back heart broken again. They just did not care, just get her OUT OF THE SYSTEM. She tried 1 more x but after reporting him for punching my Gr-son in the eye, they threw her out. So she ended up w/us until she was 18.  

My husband said he would never do another thing concerning CYF or Foster Care, they just threw her back to the wolf.  

Hugs for your sad heart.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/6/2017 at 4:32 PM, GrandNonna said:

 

Judge: Do you understand the grandparent visitation law?

Me: Yes your honor I do.

Judge: Your daughter doesn't want you to see your grandchildren does she?

Me: No your honor and for no cause.

Judge: I'm going to DENY your motion . I have to stand by what the supreme court rulings are . This is how it is in every state even Ct. 

Me: But what about other considerations your honor? My family relationship and the bond we have had?

Judge: I'm sorry but until this law changes I cannot write an order.

 

All these months I was encouraged by the Judge, his secretary was as shocked as I was and still am. I have since then been in touch and have had live feedback from the district Senator and his legal assistant.I have asked for an in person appointment to bring to the tables this profound law and how it must be revised . The assistant has been in touch with the capitol and they have pulled the portion of the general assembly law that says a Grandparent must show how this is emotionally physically and or psychologically harmful to a child and left it blank. I have submitted what I feel is needed. This law has never been voted on or challenged. This law has some serious constitutional errors in it. My uphill is a nightmare and it is all because of a law that should be written for the best interest of a child and elderly grandparents. There was no question as to WHY the deprivation is taking place. There was no question to the mental stability of the parent . America? No. Third world country if any at all. 

 

 

 

((Hugs))

i am sad for you that the judge lead you on when he was clearly fully aware of the Supreme Court ruling in Troxel that a parent has the constitutional right to control his or her child's associations without interference from on the state.

it sounds like the judge was recognizing the CT law chapter 815 sec 46b-59 that says any person may submit a verified petition to the superior court for the right of visitation. He was helping you through the court process but when it came time for a decision to be made he had to consider the Troxel decision along with all of the other factors. 

it may have been kinder for him to have told you that if your daughter said no you wouldn't win your case. But then it might have appeared that he wasn't allowing you to petition the court or was trying to influence your decision to excercise your right to petition the court.

it appears that to override Troxel you might have had to prove with clear and convincing evidence that in addition to a parent-like relationship that the denial of visitation would cause the Child real and significant harm which is defined as neglected or uncared for defined in CT law 46b-120 (6) and (8). But you pointed out earlier that CPS has already been involved and the claims were unfounded, so it would be hard to prove neglect after CPS said the parent was fit.

I think it shameful when lawyers give false hope when they already know what the legal standing is to win a case. Unfortunately for us layman it can be very challenging to see the whole legal picture. The judge was likely making rulings to help your case move forward, and not making a decision on the final case until you got to that point. But once you got there he had to follow current law.

It sounds like you are now requesting a change in state law. I'm curious, knowing that you can't change Troxel, what changes are you proposing to the law.

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2017 at 9:26 PM, GrandNonna said:

Hi Rose ,

The manipulation that I have observed is enough to send someone to have their head examined. I don't know why I feel this way but i do . Seems like when I filed my petitions ... within 2 weeks the law changed. And without looking it up I can remember. In 2013 the law said that if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law that GP MAY  file petition. Then things worked out after mediation and we DD and I , moved on from 2013 to 2014 until  the father with the developmental disability as his lawyer puts it  for her 35 year old client , interfered again with visits and GD complained about his shower interludes with her which led me back to court . Again within 2 weeks after my Dec 2015 petition the law changed to read if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law a GP MAY NOT file petition. Ok maybe I am wrong but if a law takes me one year to get an live feedback answers from my district Senator and his legal assistant then how on earth can someone get this law changed so fast and in such a perfectly timed manner? Now I know that the putitive fathers late great grandmother's third husband is involved with the republician commission and makes contributions but can it be? Is it possible that he or someone he knows is doing something? And why on earth do I have to follow the new laws when I filed under an old one? Tomorrow I drop off my petition to the Senators office and am asking for an in person meeting with him as well as the Governor who I wrote to on Friday . I am sad just thinking  about the abuse and the words and how my GK's have had to contend, how DHS is worthless and only upsetting to families and do nothing when they are most needed. (((( Hugs)))) to you too and thank you .

My personal knowledge of DHS is similar to worse- Depending on the area in which you live and their workload it can sometimes take years to get them into court and even then its possible that they will provide the parent neglecting the child more time to comply- However, a parent with a pattern of neglecting their child will find it difficult to comply which may cause them to cave and relinquish custody of the child-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The key word here is "MAY"....which is subjective. Had the wording been "SHALL" you would stand a real chance of being successful. Unlikely the laws were changed just to spite you, but the timing just made things so much harder on you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

The key word here is "MAY"....which is subjective. Had the wording been "SHALL" you would stand a real chance of being successful. Unlikely the laws were changed just to spite you, but the timing just made things so much harder on you. 

But "may" is referring to the ability of a person to file a case - not win it. 

A person may file a petition...means you have the option to ASK for visitation.

a person shall file a petition....means you are required to ask for visitation-even if you don't want it. 

The "petition" is the question to the judge "will the government force a parent to hand over their children to a non parent who is requesting it, for a period of time/visitation?"

once you have the right to ask the question, you have to follow the prescribed rules of how to ask it (serving documents, motions, etc). Once it is asked in the proscribed manner then the judge uses a set of laws and previouse court cases (Troxel included, it seems) to decide the answer.

so Grandnonna won grandparents rights- the right of a grandparent TO ASK the government to use its power to force a parent against the parents wishes to temporarily hand over the child. This is what visitation is. 

what she didnt like was the answer that the judge/government gave her. No, the state of CT  will not use their power to force this particular parent to go against the parents wishes on who is allowed to associate with their child.

i wish more people understood the process and what they are required to prove to a judge, and the reasoning a judge is required to use when determining their answer, so they could make an informed decision before the go down that road.

I am disappointed and angry that so many relationships become irreparable because the conflict escalates to a court level. It gives a lot of false hope and many grandparents may have won the ultimate goal - a relationship with their grandchildren - if they had tried to repair the relationship with the parents. Once you sue someone in court it will be very hard to repair the relationship.

My MIL has done some horrible things but I try very hard to understand and build boundaries so we don't make the relationship irreparable. I believe that she tries to do the same occasionally. If she didn't the situation would now be in complete CO. If she sued me and DH, I don't think either one of us could repair that rift. 

Grandnonna, my heart aches for you. You truly love your grandchildren and I hope that you are somehow able to find peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

Did this factor into it?  https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/cgabillstatus/cgabillstatus.asp?selBillType=Bill&which_year=2017&bill_num=7244

If you google "Grandparents Visitation Bill Wins House Approval" and "Daniela Altimari" there is an article regarding it-

 

It appears that this bill would have given some grandparents a separate standard for winning visitation as long as the parents weren't together. GP in that situation would no longer have to show a parental relationship. Instead they would have the burden of proof to show that they have been denied visits, that visitation would not interfere with the relationship btwn the child and parents, and the child's parents are unfit or a compelling circumstance to overcome the presumption that the parent made the right decision. This bill did not pass the Senate so it did not become law. It looks like the session ended so it can't move forward.

it appears that there are concerns about its constitutionality in light of the CT Supreme Court's recognition of Troxel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 2013 the law said that if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law that GP MAY  file petition.... Again within 2 weeks after my Dec 2015 petition the law changed to read if a putitive father HAD NOT established legal paternity in a court of law a GP MAY NOT file petition.

I agree that the operative word in the first instance is "MAY" and that another operative word in both instances is "file." I'm afraid I don't understand what the above contrast has to do w/ your case, though, GN. I take it to be about the PGPs (paternal grandparents) and whether or not they may file for visitation if the child's father/their son hasn't "established legal paternity." Since you're a MGP (maternal grandparent), I don't see how either of these rulings affected your case. Am I missing something?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now