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RoseRed135

Racial demographics and what they mean (if anything)... sensitive issues...

20 posts in this topic

In the "Confederate Statues..." thread, both Komorebi and Mame shared some statistics about the racial diversity - or lack of it - in various areas. IMO, that raises the question - Is social segregation on the same level w/ legal segregation? IOWs, is segregation as serious when not established by law and when, in fact, there are laws against discrimination in housing?

Also, if the racial makeup of much of the U.S. is an unbalanced as the Wikipedia map presented (in the Statues thread) suggests, why do we hear so much about whites "becoming a minority" in this country?

I realize these are sensitive issues, but I trust that everyone understands that the GP.com guidelines still apply.

Edited by RoseRed135

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From the article How We Are Ruining America by David Brooks Op-Ed columnist, Opinion Pages, New York Times:

"Over the past generation, members of the college-educated class have become amazingly good at making sure their children retain their privileged status. They have also become devastatingly good at making sure the children of other classes have limited chances to join their ranks."

And:

"Status rules are partly about collusion, about attracting educated people to your circle, tightening the bonds between you and erecting shields against everybody else. We in the educated class have created barriers to mobility that are more devastating for being invisible. The rest of America can’t name them, can’t understand them. They just know they’re there."

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In other words, it's an acceptable form of hoarding -- practiced by the same folks who categorize hoarding in the sickness category .. ! Ha!

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This is an opinion piece based on interpretation of the facts; this in itself is not fact. There are a significant of people in education (me included) working toward leveling the field. 

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I don't even know if any of my four grandparents finished high school. 

My dad is one of seven sons.  One of them went to college and was an officer in the service.  I know my dad went to night school after WWII and finished high school.  I can remember seeing his 'books' and him studying.  My sisters are over 10 years younger  and he always told them he couldn't read and for some strange reason they believed him.  Strange since he was always reading when they were little.  My mother graduated high school in the mid forties before they met and married.  All six of us finished high school and a couple of us obtained college hours while in the service. 

There are nine grandchildren and two chose to stop with associates degrees but are still talking about finishing as soon as they know what they want to be when they "grew up", six went straight through and two even have a masters.  The only college drop out, went back several years ago and is now an RN.  I can't remember anyone ever telling my kids they couldn't go to college because their parents didn't.

MY opinion is that kids think education is as important as their parents lead them to believe it is.  At a very young age, I started talking to my two about finishing high school, going to college,finding good jobs, getting married, buying a house and having babies.  I was blessed! 

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For myself & my sister there was always the expectation of finishing high school. The parent's generation was able to find jobs that had built in training. For instance you started in the file room or mail room and as you showed promise you were promoted and maybe stayed with the company for decades. That's not true these days. Or you took a civil service exam and started somewhere with some training offered. DsD has a Masters in child welfare, she works for CPS in a supervisory role, makes good money. DD has been picking at her degree for 2 decades, but she's a smart girl and is recognized by her company as an asset worth keeping, she manages 1MIL square feet of commercial space making big money. DS is a Navy Chief...and most of the way finished with a degree in Electronic Engineering, done online...when he separates from the Navy, he'll have his degree, but has already been headhunted by a research firm near his family's home for very big $$$ because they have worked with his unit on a civilian contract basis and like what they see.

If nothing else, they were taught to go after what they wanted...each found their way.

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People make choices where they live. More minorities living in one state or city does not define segregation. It's insulting to the minorities in my family, to say barriers to mobility are being created, when clearly people select for their own reasons.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

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10 hours ago, Komorebi said:

From the article How We Are Ruining America by David Brooks Op-Ed columnist, Opinion Pages, New York Times:

"Over the past generation, members of the college-educated class have become amazingly good at making sure their children retain their privileged status. They have also become devastatingly good at making sure the children of other classes have limited chances to join their ranks."

And:

"Status rules are partly about collusion, about attracting educated people to your circle, tightening the bonds between you and erecting shields against everybody else. We in the educated class have created barriers to mobility that are more devastating for being invisible. The rest of America can’t name them, can’t understand them. They just know they’re there."

How does Affirmative Action figure in here? Hasn't that openrd doors of opportunity to dozens of people who, unfortunately, would have been denied otherwise due to their race, etc?

10 hours ago, Mame925 said:

This is an opinion piece based on interpretation of the facts; this in itself is not fact. There are a significant of people in education (me included) working toward leveling the field. 

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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I'm not a fan of Affirmative Action. I find it demeaning to everyone involved. 

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1 hour ago, INCOGNITO said:

People make choices where they live. More minorities living in one state or city does not define segregation. It's insulting to the minorities in my family, to say barriers to mobility are being created, when clearly people select for their own reasons.

Anonymous poster hash: ea945...f93

I do understand how such a suggestion, or claim, could be taken as an insult- It can also be understood that people make choices where they do not want others to live, too- Based on income, race, ethnicity, overall appearance, credit score, background check results, type of car, if they have children, so forth- Clearly there is no barrier if one wishes to live where they decide to and can -- for whatever reason- But a person also might finally decide to live where they can after attempting to secure a place where they would have preferred to live- If one prefers to live in a diverse area, they more than likely could- The opposite is also true-

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

How does Affirmative Action figure in here? Hasn't that openrd doors of opportunity to dozens of people who, unfortunately, would have been denied otherwise due to their race, etc?

 

Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing

"Through this rule, HUD proposes to provide HUD program participants with more effective means to affirmatively further the purposes and policies of the Fair Housing Act, which is Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968. The Fair Housing Act not only prohibits discrimination but, in conjunction with other statutes, directs HUD's program participants to take steps proactively to overcome historic patterns of segregation, promote fair housing choice, and foster inclusive communities for all. As acknowledged by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) and many stakeholders, advocates, and program participants, the current practice of affirmatively furthering fair housing carried out by HUD grantees, which involves an analysis of impediments to fair housing choice and a certification that the grantee will affirmatively further fair housing, has not been as effective as had been envisioned. This rule accordingly proposes to refine existing requirements with a fair housing assessment and planning process that will better aid HUD program participants fulfill this statutory obligation and address specific comments the GAO raised. To facilitate this new approach, HUD will provide states, local governments, insular areas, and public housing agencies (PHAs), as well as the communities they serve, with data on patterns of integration and segregation; racially and ethnically concentrated areas of poverty; access to education, employment, low-poverty, transportation, and environmental health, among other critical assets; disproportionate housing needs based on the classes protected under the Fair Housing Act; data on individuals with disabilities and families with children; and discrimination. From these data, program participants will evaluate their present environment to assess fair housing issues, identify the primary determinants that account for those issues, and set forth fair housing priorities and goals. The benefit of this approach is that these priorities and goals will then better inform program participant's strategies and actions by improving the integration of the assessment of fair housing through enhanced coordination with current planning exercises. This proposed rule further commits HUD to greater engagement and better guidance for program participants in fulfilling their obligation to affirmatively further fair housing. With this new clarity through guidance, a template for the assessment, and a HUD-review process, program participants should achieve more meaningful outcomes that affirmatively further fair housing."

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2013/07/19/2013-16751/affirmatively-furthering-fair-housing

 

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Um... I was talking about Affirmative Action regarding colleges and jobs, Komo. I realize there are still barriers and glass ceilings, of course. And I take it your earlier post was suggesting that social efforts to segregate can be as damaging as legal ones?

Edited by RoseRed135

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Affirmative Action, the GI Bill, readily available loans and scholarships, have all contributed to a society where a college education desired was widespread achievable since the 50-60s. Racial diversity in an area has very little bearing on college attendance, ime. 

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4 minutes ago, PattyGram said:

Affirmative Action, the GI Bill, readily available loans and scholarships, have all contributed to a society where a college education desired was widespread achievable since the 50-60s. Racial diversity in an area has very little bearing on college attendance, ime. 

But greater racial diversity among college students might have a bearing on racial diversity in various careers, etc? My comments about Affirmative Action were in response to Komo's about "privileged status."

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DH took loans for undergrad and advanced degrees. His family is from the bottom 10 percent, no grads. No problem, he found his way without "privilege". 

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DH came from the lower 25%, xH & I were probably around 50%..strictly blue collar....xH paid for some of his, the rest was GI Bill....DH & I paid for ours. Thru grants and us, all 3 of our kids had the opportunity for college without debt. It's doable...

The kids I work with now are a mixed bag, mostly from the 0-25%, a few with more with greater privilege. We're trying to teach them how to get the biggest bang for their educational buck. A 4year degree isn't essential in the real world...One of my students wanted to own a 'beauty bar'...so we made a plan. 1) Cosmetology school 2) Experience in a salon 3) Small business mgmt course at the community college....bing, bang, boom....setting goals and making the plans to reach them. 

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We've lived in US metro areas on streets named to honor African Americans (iow, AA neighborhoods). We've lived where we were white minority in a US city. DH has lived where he was spit on because of his job choice (his employer hires without regard to race or privilege). We all make what we can of our lives, regardless of living in a racially diverse area or being "privileged". 

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3 hours ago, PattyGram said:

DH took loans for undergrad and advanced degrees. His family is from the bottom 10 percent, no grads. No problem, he found his way without "privilege". 

Patty, some people haven't a clue to where to begin, and to them, that's a paralyzing problem-

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No one told us where to begin, but we asked questions until somebody helped.  Asking questions is cheap no matter what color you are.

DS kept going to the counselors office.  Even after changing colleges three times, he lost no credits...all extras were added to his elective list.  Even working, being on workers comp. going to rehab (had two surgeries) etc...it took him 4 1/2 years + 3 summers, but he finished with only a small loan which he had a CD to cover.  As parents, we only paid his car insurance, bought him a few clothes and his toiletries etc.  We are not rich and he is white, but not privileged in anyway.

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... Yet, I'm sure some employers find ways around anti-discrimination laws. And I have no doubt that there are glass ceilings in some jobs/careers that keep people from going beyond a certain level (or make it harder to) b/c of race or gender, etc. For those reasons, I'm not totally doubting Brook's quoted comments. But I do believe that there are more opportunities, today, for a more diverse range of people than there were in the days when it was legal to discriminate. JMHO.

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