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GrampsX9

The Two-And-A-Half-Generation Household

387 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, ImpishMom said:

Yes, it was a general 'you', then was addressing Gramps situation in particular.

Ok, thanks for clarifying!

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On 10/2/2017 at 0:27 AM, GrampsX9 said:

 The DIL in this state has volunteered to drive me to and from surgeries, on condition that my appointments don't clash with hers -- reasonable, this is a plus that I appreciate but haven't used much yet, except for a couple of nearby cataract surgeries before we moved into this house.  As for my current health, I have a kidney mass that might need surgery, otherwise I'm OK, I even run occasionally.

Glad to hear you're generally ok, Gramps!

@ All - Rethinking... Apparently, the  "appointments" Gramps is talking about are for surgeries. Those can/are often scheduled in advance - sometimes months in advance, except for emergency ones. So I doubt this will be a problem, no matter how DIL worded her offer. Gramps clearly found her conditions "reasonable" and seems satisfied w/ the arrangement.

Edited by RoseRed135
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2 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Yes.

Interactions have decreased to near zero.  DS texted me that the dog peed in the house and is "in trouble" (meaning she has been expelled to the walled-in yard and is not to be let into my apartment, the dog's 2nd choice).  That's it for the last 9 days.  Silence. On Sunday, it might be worth asking DS why this happened since it's not the usual.  

But the DIL's parents, with whom I am on good terms, have invited me to a Friday supper where DS, DIL, and GD will also attend, so I will finally get to see their faces and talk to them after 12 days, in the parents' apartment several blocks from here.

Lovely! Are you riding there w/ DS and family?

I hope you'll resist the temptation to complain about not seeing them on this occasion. It might spoil the evening, and I'm sure you don't want that.

 

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2 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

 I'm sure the kids are busy with homework, except the 14 year old GD, who has been pulled out of school because of ADHD and now spends all of her time helping her mother.  

Hold it. A gifted child was pulled out of school at 14 due to ADHD? Was there no help available? I would think she was being homeschooled, but you say she "now spends all of her time helping her mother." So no more education for her, I guess? Does your state actually allow kids to end their schooling at this age, to your knowledge?

Edited by RoseRed135

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5 hours ago, ImpishMom said:

All I can say is, at 11-15, the kids I've known will side w/their parents in a conflict, if it's the parents vs someone outside the nuclear family. 'Closing ranks' if you will. I don't know the kids, obviously, so I have no idea if it's a stage/age thing, if it's their way of dealing w/the conflict and tensions in the house, or what.

I do sincerely doubt that the parents sat down w/the kids and said, "Hey guys! We're going to con Gramps into buying a house, so be extra affectionate w/him until the deal's done, okay?" b/c the vast majority of parents would find the concept of using their children like that as completely repugnant. I also doubt the parents sat down w/the kids and said, "Hey guys, now that we're all moved in, no more hugging Gramps."

Decent parents don't use their children like that, and from what Gramps has said, his ds and DIL are good parents. He thinks they're overprotective, but I've not heard him say anything that would lead me to believe they'd deliberately play mind games w/their children and hurt them that way.

Gramps may not like what's happening btwn him and his ds, but I've not heard anything that says these ppl are terrible parents.

As for refusal to engage, I may have missed that. Ds works 2 jobs, has a wife and 3 kids, and they were gone for the wknd. I'm not sure how much time ds has to engage. If he is choosing not to engage, there may be an element of, "I'm too angry with you right now." and avoidance on the part of the ds. Gramps has downplayed/dismissed the photo debacle, but I suspect that ds and DIL aren't as quick to move past their anger over that situation.

Not all families respond to situations by closing ranks because not all families units are trained to respond that way- But when they do, they close to prevent as well as protect- The sad part of that dynamic is that often times they close in tight to protect someone who is responsible for doing something unsavory, against the law as well as offenses of lesser degrees- Regardless of the severity of the offense, it could be viewed as an unhealthy maneuver- 

As far as what these children might have possibly been told nobody knows for certain- Gramps indicated that he witnessed tight control- His son is both controller and punisher, that much is known- Throwing the photobook away in the trash in front of his dad, not speaking to his father purposefully, banishing the dog to the outdoors only- Not all men who holds down 2 jobs, have a spouse, children as well as other responsibilities behave in such a way-  

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5 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Yes.

Interactions have decreased to near zero.  DS texted me that the dog peed in the house and is "in trouble" (meaning she has been expelled to the walled-in yard and is not to be let into my apartment, the dog's 2nd choice).  That's it for the last 9 days.  Silence.  I'm sure the kids are busy with homework, except the 14 year old GD, who has been pulled out of school because of ADHD and now spends all of her time helping her mother.  But the DIL's parents, with whom I am on good terms, have invited me to a Friday supper where DS, DIL, and GD will also attend, so I will finally get to see their faces and talk to them after 12 days, in the parents' apartment several blocks from here.

When they contacted you to extend the invitation, did they thank you for the photobook?

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9 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hold it. A gifted child was pulled out of school at 14 due to ADHD? Was there no help available? I would think she was being homeschooled, but you say she "now spends all of her time helping her mother." So no more education for her, I guess? Does your state actually allow kids to end their schooling at this age, to your knowledge?

I think this may be more common than people realize.

My parents pulled my brother (extreme ADD) from school when DB was around 14. Dad wanted/needed to work but couldn't (in his opinion) because mom kept calling dad, all crabby because the head Nun was calling mom to report DB's antics and invite them back to school for another chat. Dad said DB could read the Bible, required books, history text and follow dad a couple of months dawn to dusk. DB would learn as much from working with Dad - as he could in school and he'd get bored without an audience - showing his rear to friends. My brother adored my parents but he hated being away from an admiring crowd. He begged to go back to school after a few weeks, stayed out of detention until he just couldn't (he was in detention a lot - graduated HS as Valedictorian). After that, the threat of working with Dad vs being in school was always out there. My parents played that card often, sometimes successfully.

ETA: HUGE, my brother couldn't do sports if he wasn't in school. Sports rule DBs life.

FYI: not everybody likes to "ride together" we hate it, unless long distances. We arrive/depart on our own schedule vs being schedule-driven by outsiders. NOT that you care about rides together, but anyone insisting on riding together has an unreasonable expectation in my mind. That's your OP, do I have unreasonable expectations? Yes, you have unreasonable expectations for interactions and for AC privacy - by our ACs standards.

Edited by JanelleK

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9 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Yes.

Interactions have decreased to near zero.  DS texted me that the dog peed in the house and is "in trouble" (meaning she has been expelled to the walled-in yard and is not to be let into my apartment, the dog's 2nd choice).  That's it for the last 9 days.  Silence.  I'm sure the kids are busy with homework, except the 14 year old GD, who has been pulled out of school because of ADHD and now spends all of her time helping her mother.  But the DIL's parents, with whom I am on good terms, have invited me to a Friday supper where DS, DIL, and GD will also attend, so I will finally get to see their faces and talk to them after 12 days, in the parents' apartment several blocks from here.

How long ago was the 14 yo pulled from school?

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7 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:
10 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

But the DIL's parents, with whom I am on good terms, have invited me to a Friday supper where DS, DIL, and GD will also attend, so I will finally get to see their faces and talk to them after 12 days, in the parents' apartment several blocks from here.

Lovely! Are you riding there w/ DS and family?

I hope you'll resist the temptation to complain about not seeing them on this occasion. It might spoil the evening, and I'm sure you don't want that.

 

I have not received an invitation to ride with them.  It would be comical if both they and I drive from this house to the parents' apartment in separate cars at about the same time.

Yes, absolutely, I will not "start something" at this occasion.  DIL's mom says, "I don't want to come between you and the kids."  The father (i.e., the other grandfather in this saga) has advanced Parkinson's and seldom talks.

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5 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Not all families respond to situations by closing ranks because not all families units are trained to respond that way- But when they do, they close to prevent as well as protect- The sad part of that dynamic is that often times they close in tight to protect someone who is responsible for doing something unsavory, against the law as well as offenses of lesser degrees- Regardless of the severity of the offense, it could be viewed as an unhealthy maneuver- 

As far as what these children might have possibly been told nobody knows for certain- Gramps indicated that he witnessed tight control- His son is both controller and punisher, that much is known- Throwing the photobook away in the trash in front of his dad, not speaking to his father purposefully, banishing the dog to the outdoors only- Not all men who holds down 2 jobs, have a spouse, children as well as other responsibilities behave in such a way-  

Komo, there is no evidence anywhere in this thread of inappropriate or "unsavory" behavior being alluded to from either side. Even with your reasoning I think you are muddying the waters of Gramps' issues. My experience with the Mormon faith is that it is family centric, patriarchal and can be exclusionary to nonmembers of the faith no matter the relationship. DS/DIL have put themselves on a double edged sword by soliciting/accepting help from Gramps. I can see where it is very confusing for him. 

Gramps, have a good time Friday night. Bring the mama a box of chocolates & some flowers. Sorry for the papa, a dear friend of mine is also dealing with Parkinsons....so sad to watch this formerly vibrant man (an entertainer by trade) be reduced to shuffling along as a shell of his former self and preserve his dignity.

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A post in this thread has been hidden for review.  It may or may not be reopened.

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9 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hold it. A gifted child was pulled out of school at 14 due to ADHD? Was there no help available? I would think she was being homeschooled, but you say she "now spends all of her time helping her mother." So no more education for her, I guess? Does your state actually allow kids to end their schooling at this age, to your knowledge?

I thought the beauty of home schooling was the fact that it can be done in less time than conventional school and also taught outside of conventional hours.  

Maybe a child and parent are both night owls and they find midnight is the best time for them to do their schooling.

The simple rules for individual states to home school can be found online.  I have several friends that have home schooled their own children and many now hold college degrees.  One is even now a college professor.

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I don't know how GP would know how much studying is going on upstairs if he is practically cut off from them.  

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8 hours ago, Komorebi said:

When they contacted you to extend the invitation, did they thank you for the photobook?

They did not explicitly thank me, I think they know the political situation.  But they gave the impression that they liked it.

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3 hours ago, Mame925 said:

Komo, there is no evidence anywhere in this thread of inappropriate or "unsavory" behavior being alluded to from either side. Even with your reasoning I think you are muddying the waters of Gramps' issues. My experience with the Mormon faith is that it is family centric, patriarchal and can be exclusionary to nonmembers of the faith no matter the relationship. DS/DIL have put themselves on a double edged sword by soliciting/accepting help from Gramps. I can see where it is very confusing for him. 

Gramps, have a good time Friday night. Bring the mama a box of chocolates & some flowers. Sorry for the papa, a dear friend of mine is also dealing with Parkinsons....so sad to watch this formerly vibrant man (an entertainer by trade) be reduced to shuffling along as a shell of his former self and preserve his dignity.

Mame, the focus of that first paragraph was specific to that particular exchange, no names mentioned, just behaviors and situations- The second paragraph addressed Gramps-

Considering you've some knowledge of the Mormon faith, as does Gramps I believe, how much if at all did their faith play into the behavioral switch?

Completely agree with the thoughtful gesture re: bringing flowers-

 

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I have promised to bring drinks. :-)

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On 10/3/2017 at 9:34 AM, BSW said:

I think Gramps is looking for an extended family arrangement with his DS/DIL/GK, and they are not.    It doesn't make Gramps a bad person for wanting more family inclusion.  It doesn't make DS a bad person for wanting more separation and autonomy, but it does make this living arrangement incompatible.  I do think that DS seized the opportunity to get Gramps to pay for his living expenses, as afterall he was conditioned to Gramps treating him like a man-child by paying his bills even before this fiasco of a living arrangement.

As I said it is time for Gramps to cut the financial umbilical cord and release his DS into the world so he can be a responsible adult who takes care of himself and his family.  It is the greatest gift you will give this man in training.  Give DS notice that you are selling the place, so he can find housing that he can afford with the money he and DIL make, sell the place and move to a place that accommodates your needs, such as an over 55 living community that offers transportation to dr appts, etc. and be free of this.  After the dusts settles as there will be quite a dust up from these changes and new boundaries, you both will be in better places.

Yes, I could just exist somewhere.  I've done it before.  For some reason, I'm more needy for family now.

I love your sentence, "It is the greatest gift you could give this man in training."  But there is an even simpler way to give him this gift.  Why go through the nightmare (mental and financial) of a move?  Why not just disappear from this world.  And leave the vast majority of my estate, through uncontestable channels, to my angelic daughters. 

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31 minutes ago, GrampsX9 said:

I have promised to bring drinks. :-)

Bring the flowers anyway....

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22 minutes ago, GrampsX9 said:

Why not just disappear from this world.  And leave the vast majority of my estate, through uncontestable channels, to my angelic daughters.

Seriously? So you'll punish your son from the next world? No, just no.

And if you are serious consider  Call 1-800-273-8255, it's the national suicide hotline. 

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What about your two lovely daughters and their families?  Would you really leave them in a mental nightmare?

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2 hours ago, SueSTx said:

I thought the beauty of home schooling was the fact that it can be done in less time than conventional school and also taught outside of conventional hours.  

Maybe a child and parent are both night owls and they find midnight is the best time for them to do their schooling.

The simple rules for individual states to home school can be found online.  I have several friends that have home schooled their own children and many now hold college degrees.  One is even now a college professor.

I understand about homeschooling, Sue. But Gramps originally said GD was doing nothing but "helping her mother." That's not "homeschooling," obviously. That's why I was wondering if this was ok.

But Gramps has since mentioned that there has been talk of "homschooling" and "homework." So that sheds a different light on the situation, IMO.

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@GrampsX9 - You've now been given the suicide hotline twice and a the link to a suicide prevention website. Please get in touch w/ one of these (I think calling the hotline would lead to more immediate help).

Please don't opt for a permanent solution to a problem that may be resolved in time.

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33 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

I understand about homeschooling, Sue. But Gramps originally said GD was doing nothing but "helping her mother." That's not "homeschooling," obviously. That's why I was wondering if this was ok.

But Gramps has since mentioned that there has been talk of "homschooling" and "homework." So that sheds a different light on the situation, IMO.

And honestly....if Gramps hasn't been in the day-to-day loop, how does he know if the GD is being homeschooled, tutored, or 'nonschooled'? (it's a thing). 

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38 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

And honestly....if Gramps hasn't been in the day-to-day loop, how does he know if the GD is being homeschooled, tutored, or 'nonschooled'? (it's a thing). 

Exactly. The Nuns likely had no idea what my brother was learning when he was pulled out of school. They were NOT there with Dad and DB. And the Nuns didn't dare tell my parents what to do or hold opinions about my brother's education. I guess they knew it was NONE of their business as long as DB was safe with Dad and out of their hair/habit for a bit.  ;)

Edited by JanelleK
unkind word

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1 hour ago, GrampsX9 said:

Yes, I could just exist somewhere.  I've done it before.  For some reason, I'm more needy for family now.

I love your sentence, "It is the greatest gift you could give this man in training."  But there is an even simpler way to give him this gift.  Why go through the nightmare (mental and financial) of a move?  Why not just disappear from this world.  And leave the vast majority of my estate, through uncontestable channels, to my angelic daughters. 

Don't do that, Gramps- Just don't- Call one of the numbers provided or 911- Speak freely to whoever receives your call because you life depends on it- Decide to live-

I understand how you feel and believe the needs that you've expressed in this thread are valid and have been extremely difficult to deal with ALL things considered- And I can't apologize enough, ever, for any of the suggestions offered that your problems could be solved with colorful scatter rugs and lava lamps- But you've a light inside you to guide you through difficult times- I know this is true due to the way in which you express yourself here online as well as the way in which you've described your expression of love to those in your every day life- Your situation isn't hopeless, but I would be lying if I tried to convince you that it wasn't difficult- I feel I'm certain that you must be nervous about Friday night- And if that's true, please reach out to someone in real life to talk to before you go if you think you could use a confidence boost- You aren't doing anything wrong- But that doesn't mean that you won't decide to take another avenue in the future- I will be thinking of you tonight and will ask a friend to think about you too -- because it's what we do- It brings me comfort to know someone is sending me love or I'm sending it to them- I wish you peace this evening-  

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