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GrampsX9

The Two-And-A-Half-Generation Household

387 posts in this topic

44 minutes ago, GrampsX9 said:

Unless you go hog-wild with artificial lighting constantly on in every corner, darkness dominates 24 hours a day.

You won't have to go "hog wild"....just strategically place lighting by someone who knows what they are doing!

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I don't know why people keep harping on fixing up the basement.  That is only one of the problems.  Perhaps the easiest to fix, but the other "harder"  problems still need addressed.  Before I spent any time or money redecorating, I would have to have come to some amiable solution with my son regarding the other issues.   Will the son pay his fair share of the rent? (doubtful= see below),  Will the son/ DIL be a "tenants" I could stand to live next to.  This IL relationship is tenuous.  DIL/son tried rug sweeping relationship problems so that they could get a big house  for the cost of utilities in exchange for a few rides and a few dinners.  Now they are living in close quarters and it isn't working out for them either.  It seems to me tempers are starting to flare.  Son is sullen.  GP and he are fighting.  DIL is mad enough about a picture book to cut off the dinners GP is getting.

Whether gramps expectations were realistic or not or "fair" or not, they were his expectations.  And they are not being met.  Gramps had expectations of joint living areas on the first floor, what he was getting was a basement apartment he is banished to, brief dinners 3 times a week, (and what he might get because of a prickly DIL is NO dinners at all._    His GC are not allowed to be alone with him- for whatever reason he isn't "safe".  I don't understand why a mother who is fearful enough to not want her ILs alone with her kids would move into the same house with them.  isn't DIL afraid that the GC might bump into him without her there to "protect" them..  The only reason I can see moving in close proximity to someone who is scary enough that I don't want my kids being alone with them is financial.  Someone wouldn't risk their children's safety-   he can't be that bad or they are desperate financially.. 

Janelle, this is not the DIL, this is the son too.   Who says the son is a mindless twit.  He's the one that's doing this.  Maybe he's forcing his wife to do it and she's the mindless twit.

Maybe son was silent at dinner because he knows this isn't working either.  Maybe he's embarrassed that he manipulated his dad into this situation. 

Edited by skipped
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I see that Gramps feels he isn't be considered at all, including his surroundings. For all that no one's expectations were discussed ahead of time, everyone is unhappy that their own expectations haven't been considered, much less met. DS/DIL are seeing this thru an entirely different lens. 

Honest discussions need to start happening. Perhaps in a counselor's office? 

 

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4 hours ago, skipped said:
13 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Yet DIL and DS (probably just following her lead) were offended by my posting these pics on Facebook!

Who says the son is a mindless twit.  He's the one that's doing this.  Maybe he's forcing his wife to do it and she's the mindless twit.

9 hours ago, JanelleK said:

is DS a mindless twit who only follows his wife? Really? I don't feel that way about my kids and they surely would hate it if I did. 

I asked if Gramps thinks of his son as a mindless twit "just following her lead" (he said it, see above). Sorry, it's indicative of a horrible attitude to blame DIL for DS behavior. He said they were offended, but his son was probably just following her lead. Poppycock.

"He's the one that's doing this" --- doing what??  Just following her lead??  Not unless he's a mindless twit.

To argue/agree with one's spouse, in private, and present a united front, is great. Parents should LOVE to see such behavior from their AC/ACIL. But to call an agreement "probably just following her lead" is depreciating their marriage and the son as a mindless twit. ETA: I have said many times our daughters are not mindless twits, they exercise free will, just as our sons do. None of our kids are mindless twits led by a nose ring or their partners private parts, that's a demeaning thought. No.

BTW, I was talking about fixing the basement in case it wasn't already totally appropriately renovated and the house needs to be sold as a double rental, I said such. OR in case Gramps may want to take charge of making himself feel better in his surroundings. A little extra lighting goes a long ways towards making our basement at home feel cozy, nobody ever complains in our basement TV/play room.

ETA: we have 7 boy GC between 14 and 9, not allowed to be alone together without full on adult supervision - they all lack impulse control, reasoning skills and good judgement. My brother wasn't allowed alone with the kiddies at 12 either (same logic).

 

Edited by JanelleK

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Would someone please explain the difference between united fronts, equally yoked and mindless twits?

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The basement isnt the problem- 

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

Would someone please explain the difference between united fronts, equally yoked and mindless twits?

This is what I've picked up from my years on the board.

United fronts- a couple is always united in front of others even if they are not.  ( It may or may not be playacting.)

Equally yoked- Both parties have a say in all decisions (unless it's in regard to the children's immunizations in which case the mother has the say)

Mindless twit- A husband is never a mindless twit.  He either 1) is actually truly on board 2) needs to be convinced to be on board and caves.  It is his freewill to change his mind.  The fact that the wife pressures him in anyway has no bearing on that or 3) refuses to be on board.  Now the fact that the husband is not a mindless twit is a problem.  Sooo...he is called a DuH and marriage counseling is in order (and maybe shopping to find the counselor who agrees with the wifes POV) .  It is now the counselors job to get him on board.  If he still is not a mindless twit--- and the counselor can't convince hime-it's divorce time.

Edited by skipped
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2 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Would someone please explain the difference between united fronts, equally yoked and mindless twits?

United front - The joint position that a couple presents to others. If they disagree, they work it out privately, decide on a position and then present that to the other person/people. Parents, as I'm sure you know, are often advised to present a united front to their kids on any given issue (bedtime, curfews, etc.). By the same token, couples are often advised to present a united front to anyone else.

Equally yoked - Was this expression used in this thread? Or anywhere else on the board? If so, please point me to it, as I don't recall seeing it here. Did some googling, but all I could find were religious definitions speaking about people who share a religious faith ("equally yoked") and those who don't ("unequally yoked"). It is sometimes used, apparently, to suggest that married couples should be "equally yoked" as Christians. I suppose that's a kind of "united front," but only in one sphere of life (religion).

Mindless twits - as I understand it - idiots who can't think for themselves and just go along w/ what someone else says they should do/say/think/feel. Example: a spouse who seems to present a united front w/ the other spouse, but really is "just going along" w/ the other spouse' ideas.  In fact, often when their AC/CIL present a joint position, parents will say their AC is "just going along" w/ their CIL.  But just as often, some posters will ask them if this means they feel their AC is a mindless twit.

Edited by RoseRed135
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17 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

United front - The joint position that a couple presents to others. If they disagree, they work it out privately, decide on a position and then present that to the other person/people. Parents, as I'm sure you know, are often advised to present a united front to their kids on any given issue (bedtime, curfews, etc.). By the same token, couples are often advised to present a united front to anyone else.

Equally yoked - Was this expression used in this thread? Or anywhere else on the board? If so, please point me to it, as I don't recall seeing it here. Did some googling, but all I could find were religious definitions speaking about people who share a religious faith ("equally yoked") and those who don't ("unequally yoked"). It is sometimes used, apparently, to suggest that married couples should be "equally yoked" as Christians. I suppose that's a kind of "united front," but only in one sphere of life (religion).

Mindless twits - as I understand it - idiots who can't think for themselves and just go along w/ what someone else says they should do/say/think/feel. Example: a spouse who seems to present a united front w/ the other spouse, but really is "just going along" w/ the other spouse' ideas.  In fact, often when their AC/CIL present a joint position, parents will say their AC is "just going along" w/ their CIL.  But just as often, some posters will ask them if this means they feel their AC is a mindless twit.

I included equally yoked with the hope of possibly shedding some light on Gramps circumstance-

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3 hours ago, JanelleK said:

mindless twit "just following her lead"

Please don't put words in my mouth.  Regarding a single issue, I said he was probably just following her lead.  I did not say he is a mindless twit.

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22 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I included equally yoked with the hope of possibly shedding some light on Gramps circumstance-

Oh, I see.... b/c of the possible religious issue, I take it...

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1 hour ago, skipped said:

This is what I've picked up from my years on the board.

United fronts- a couple is always united in front of others even if they are not.  ( It may or may not be playacting.)

Equally yoked- Both parties have a say in all decisions (unless it's in regard to the children's immunizations in which case the mother has the say)

Mindless twit- A husband is never a mindless twit.  He either 1) is actually truly on board 2) needs to be convinced to be on board and caves.  It is his freewill to change his mind.  The fact that the wife pressures him in anyway has no bearing on that or 3) refuses to be on board.  Now the fact that the husband is not a mindless twit is a problem.  Sooo...he is called a DuH and marriage counseling is in order (and maybe shopping to find the counselor who agrees with the wifes POV) .  It is now the counselors job to get him on board.  If he still is not a mindless twit--- and the counselor can't convince hime-it's divorce time.

It does appear that sometimes the majority leans towards thinking that people, in general, think for themselves- In other words, one is free to decide to "go along" with their spouse should they choose -- therefore, aren't mindless- The trouble arises when it's suggested that a son or daughter chose to "go along"- And then the majority shifts to who cares if they are or are not, they are not mindless twits- And if that decision to "go along" has a negative impact, it isn't anyone's business to discuss it- Wha? 

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9 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

Oh, I see.... b/c of the possible religious issue, I take it...

Yes-

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14 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Please don't put words in my mouth.  Regarding a single issue, I said he was probably just following her lead.  I did not say he is a mindless twit.

Neither did I.

I asked if you thought he just followed DIL, as a mindless twit? From the bits you write about DIL (below), it seems fairly obvious that you believe she is at the root of whatever problems you're having - that DS is just doing her bidding, with no mind of his own.

On 9/21/2017 at 11:56 AM, GrampsX9 said:

 I have been cut off from the GC’s.  (And God only knows what DIL has said to them about me.)  Do you have reason to think she talks unfavorably about you to their kiddies? Really????

On 9/21/2017 at 0:24 PM, GrampsX9 said:

And now it seems that even the meal invitations will stop because the DIL is deeply offended that I sent a photo book of this family to her parents without her permission. You said your Son threw the book away.

On 9/21/2017 at 1:02 PM, GrampsX9 said:

DIL is very easy to offend because she is overprotective of her children and herself. One persons overprotective is another persons normal, I get this because my MIL was an overprotective nut, but she and FIL found her actions normal and loving.

On 9/22/2017 at 5:09 AM, GrampsX9 said:

DIL is super protective and probably fears that I may poison their minds in some way. She has them trapped, your Son has no say?

ETA: Granted, because of all of the perceived "issues" - we'd probably bite the bullet, make sure the entire home is perfect, rent the bottom out at going rate, cut losses. Rentals sell well rented - pity sake, put it for sale and move on to a place you truly find comfortable from the get-go.

Edited by JanelleK

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I thought his daughter in-inlaw threw the book away, in front of him when he was working outdoors in the yard, no? By him I mean Gramps-

Edited by Komorebi

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43 minutes ago, GrampsX9 said:

Please don't put words in my mouth.  Regarding a single issue, I said he was probably just following her lead.  I did not say he is a mindless twit.

Are you suggesting that he "goes along to get along?" (I know you didn't use those words either.) If so, you wouldn't be the first parent to believe their AC was "following" their CIL's "lead" to keep peace at home. I don't think that means they necessarily see their AC as a "mindless twit" - just someone who is trying to protect their marriage.

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4 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I thought his daughter in-inlaw threw the book away, in front of him when he was working outdoors in the yard, no? By him I mean Gramps-

15 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

But back to the photo book.  I ordered two copies, one for them and one for DIL's parents.  While I was working outside, DS walked out and, in front of me, dropped their copy into the trash.  

If nothing else, DS/DIL are remarkably inconsiderate. 

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Just now, Mame925 said:

If nothing else, DS/DIL are remarkably inconsiderate. 

Thank you for clearing that up, Mame- And, yes, if nothing else remarkably inconsiderate- Completely agree-

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39 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

It does appear that sometimes the majority leans towards thinking that people, in general, think for themselves- In other words, one is free to decide to "go along" with their spouse should they choose -- therefore, aren't mindless- The trouble arises when it's suggested that a son or daughter chose to "go along"- And then the majority shifts to who cares if they are or are not, they are not mindless twits- And if that decision to "go along" has a negative impact, it isn't anyone's business to discuss it- Wha? 

IMO, this topic deserves a thread of its own. So I've created one in MIL Anon:

 

@GrampsX9 - A couple of posters have suggested you dissolve the current living situation and move out. Would you consider it?

Edited by RoseRed135

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31 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

If nothing else, DS/DIL are remarkably inconsiderate. 

I don't like a lot of their behavior either. But I'm not clear on whether or not Gramps knew about DIL's feelings about candid shots before he created the album. If he did, then, sad to say, DS might have trashed it in front of him deliberately - a way of saying, "This is what happens when you give us things you know we don't want." Still very harsh, IMO, especially when Gramps has given DS and family a roof over their heads. But done w/ a purpose.

If Gramps didn't know how DIL felt till after the album-trashing, then, IMO, it was just plain rude/inconsiderate.

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6 hours ago, Mame925 said:

If nothing else, DS/DIL are remarkably inconsiderate. 

I would call them remarkably stupid.  They couldn't pay their prior mortgage, Gramps was paying his school loans, they have a sweet deal on their current living situations and they are giving the person providing all this a ration of grief.

They are either stupid or they  think they can get away with it or they don't care.

Edited by skipped
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Hmmm... "remarkably stupid" seems a little harsh. Perhaps it's more a matter of wanting to "have their cake and eat it, too?" Granted, IDK all the financial details, nor should I. But I've been wondering all along, why couldn't they have simply gotten a less expensive house than the one they were originally living in? Or downsize and move into an apartment if that were feasible? (I realize some of them can be quite expensive, too.). My guess is (and please correct me if I'm wrong, Gramps) they wanted a similar house to what they had before, except w/ Gramps paying for it and living in a basement apartment.

 

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Does that also apply to their limiting Gramps' access to most of the house he's paying for? Could be. However, of course, they see it as a "landlord-tenant" situation, and to my knowledge, landlords don't generally come into their tenants' homes at will or for social visits.

Then again, while DS and DIL are paying utilities, they're not paying rent. If they wanted this to be a landlord-tenant scenario, I agree w/ some PPs that rent should have been part of the deal, even if it were just a small amount (this would also help cover the mortgage payments, of course). So here again, it does seem as if they want it "both ways" - a landlord-tenant situation as far as privacy is concerned, etc but rent-free.

TBF, their thinking might be, "Just b/c Gramps is paying for the house doesn't mean we can't have boundaries," etc.And I get that. But they had no guarantee that Gramps would see things the same way or be able to accept the boundaries they set.  Another reason they should have looked for other solutions to their problem, IMO.

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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11 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

GrampsX9 - A couple of posters have suggested you dissolve the current living situation and move out. Would you consider it?

So many great ideas here, this is one of them.  But I hesitate to go down this road because I could lose a lot of money.  I would have to put the house up for sale, and only after some legally required notice (six months?).  And in the meantime, continue to pay the mortgage on top of rent somewhere else.  And here it is a buyer's market.

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Two posts in this thread have been hidden, one for review and the other b/c it quotes part of the hidden post. They may/may not be restored in their entirety.

ETA: It has been decided that the 2 posts will remain hidden.

Edited by RoseRed135

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