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GrampsX9

The Two-And-A-Half-Generation Household

387 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, JanelleK said:

I disagree, Rose. Caveat Emptor.

I think if one of our sons asked us to purchase a large multi-family home, with both families to live in said property, we would ask a lot of questions beforehand.

Gramps is good with money, recognizes a scam, feels this is one, he didn't ask questions.

Why do you want us to do this? Because I am unable to pay my mortgage. Can you sell and rent, why not? No, because. Is there anyway you can cut costs? What about your student loans? Can either of you get better paying jobs? Are you sure this is a good idea DS-DIL-GP proximity-wise? What will I get out of this aside the feel-good of helping? Will you be able to drive me to Z? Will I be able to see you more than now, how much will I see you? For me, seeing you is the carrot as well as helping your finances. If we buy our payments will be capped at XX, you'll pay utilities of Y, tell me about college loans of Z - Lets run numbers and see what this looks like. Will this be one home or a landlord-tenant arrangement? Let's call the tax accountant and find out about rentals to related persons.

NO, this is NOT hindsight, it's normal home buying 101. And he doesn't care for his DIL (seemingly also dislikes their religion, her parents etc), how was living underfoot supposed to help their relationship?

 

Points taken.

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8 hours ago, JanelleK said:

NO, this is NOT hindsight, it's normal home buying 101. And he doesn't care for his DIL (seemingly also dislikes their religion, her parents etc), how was living underfoot supposed to help their relationship?

My only problem with participating here has been misquotes and misunderstandings of my statements.  Maybe this is normal in a group of seniors?

OK, right, I dislike their religion.

I liked my DIL until a few days after I moved into this house, when I got word through my DS that my coming upstairs was making her nervous.  And it's been downhill since then.  Yes, I accuse her of being overprotective of her kids.  That realization hit me like a flash during one of my few dinners with the family after moving in here.  Your implication that I disliked her from the beginning is WRONG.

And I like her parents.  I've said nothing about her father.  And I expressed dislike for the fact that her mother is given more privilege than me.  But why turn that into dislike for the mother herself? I like DIL's mother.

And I even dislike "etc", I'm afraid to ask what "etc" means. 

Edited by GrampsX9

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11 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

My only problem with participating here has been misquotes and misunderstandings of my statements.  Maybe this is normal in a group of seniors?

OK, right, I dislike their religion. Well, it seems so and if you let anyone know that it may be a part of your problem. Would be for me, nobody criticizes our faith/Church/religious choices and gets to be around us, EVER.

I liked my DIL until a few days after I moved into this house, when I got word through my DS that my coming upstairs was making her nervous.  And it's been downhill since then.  Yes, I accuse her of being overprotective of her kids.  That realization hit me like a flash during one of my few dinners with the family after moving in here.  Your implication that I disliked her from the beginning is WRONG. I said you don't care for your DIL, it appears you don't, I didn't set a time frame

And I like her parents.  I've said nothing about her father.  And I expressed dislike for the fact that her mother is given more privilege than me.  But why turn that into dislike for the mother herself? I like DIL's mother. Seems to me like you expressed a dislike for DILs mom/parent(s), I apparently read your words incorrectly

And I even dislike "etc", I'm afraid to ask what "etc" means. 

You may pick apart my words all you wish, I write poorly and imprecisely. But it's sorta silly to ask for advice and then proceed to be angry over what's given - jumping to defending yourself vs thinking about what you may be bringing to this little fuss. Anyways, you apparently went into this mess without asking enough questions or ironing out details. I'd say that, along with a desire to not "lose" fees and other sums in this bad RE transaction is most of your problem. And gossiping with other family members likely isn't helping much either.

ETA: to what Rose says below, I also wondered if you verbally accused DIL to her face, their faces or DS face - of being overprotective. My MIL was exceedingly overprotective, it would have been rude beyond rude for me to ever say such to anyone but my husband. I would never verbally criticize my ACIL or my siblings spouses, ever. Mostly because it's unforgivably wrong, imo, to say anything against anyone's marriage if one is not living in it. There are lots of things my jerky BIL does that make me nuts and very unhappy, it is simply not my place to do anything but smile and walk away, same with ODS first wife (she is mother to 2 of my grands and I never trash her outside my bedroom).

Discretion, shut up and color, it works. Being older does not make one wiser, being Patriarchal/Matriarchal is disgusting - if one finds those traits inside their own heart they have found something to work against.

If anyone's OP is posted only to read back their own opinions/nonsense, why bother? I know what we think of our ACIL problems, I don't typically shoot the messenger who may have a differing view. Introspection is good.

 

Edited by JanelleK
Crabby v angry

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3 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

My only problem with participating here has been misquotes and misunderstandings of my statements.  Maybe this is normal in a group of seniors?

LOL! Not everyone on this site is a senior citizen (I am, and so are many others, but not all.) There are younger parents/moms/DILs here, too. Also, some of the GPs here are below the senior citizen age.

But a certain amount of "misunderstanding" does seem to occur, I've noticed on forum sites, in general, largely, IMO, b/c we can't hear intonation or see facial expressions. Also, sometimes people "read between the lines" and, in some cases, see something that isn't there - or, in other cases, something that is, even though the OP didn't realize it. Either way, any misunderstandings often get straightened out as the conversation continues, as seems to be happening in this one.

OK, right, I dislike their religion.

Is it possible they're aware of this? Could that be one of the reasons for limiting time w/ you?

I liked my DIL until a few days after I moved into this house, when I got word through my DS that my coming upstairs was making her nervous. Maybe she feels she "can't relax" (my words) when her FIL is around. Or perhaps she fears you may be critical of some of her behavior, even if that's the farthest thing from your mind. Whatever the reason, she might not have realized she would feel this way till you were all actually living in the house. And it's been downhill since then.  Yes, I accuse her of being overprotective of her kids.  That realization hit me like a flash during one of my few dinners with the family after moving in here.  Sorry but I'm not clear on  ths - Did you actually "accuse(" her to her face at any time? Or let DS know you feel she's "overprotective?" Or are you just telling us? Please clarify. Thank you. :)Your implication that I disliked her from the beginning is WRONG.

And I like her parents.  I've said nothing about her father.  And I expressed dislike for the fact that her mother is given more privilege than me.  But why turn that into dislike for the mother herself? I like DIL's mother.

And I even dislike "etc", I'm afraid to ask what "etc" means. 

 

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I thought this horse was dead but it's not, so I'll just keep flogging- Gramp's entered into this situation with one family and once moved in they morphed into another family altogether- He's expressed similar time and again -- and again .. What's not to get? 

It could also be said that it's sort of silly to offer crabby advice then be crabby about the crabby response one gets as a result- But even the crabbiest crash course training one to consider what they could be bringing to the fuss is invaluable -- even if it comes across like squeaking chalk across a blackboard or whah whah whah whah ..

Nobody ever knew exactly what Charlie Brown's teacher said, but judging by the sound of her voice, it suggested what lessons from an adult sounded like to a child ..

Edited by Komorebi
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Hmmm.... "crabby" is a tone issue, for the most part, on the Internet, IMO. And as I said earlier, on the Internet, it's hard to "hear" tone. However, do seem to be some strong and/or unpleasant words/sentences in this thread, such as, well, "crabby."  Perhaps that's b/c of what seems to be some tension (or maybe it's the cause of that tension). But, even when feelings are running high, please, people, remember the following from the "I Just Joined" thread:

 

Be Nice - Sometimes the nicest people can come across the wrong way online. Please do not say or do anything to anyone that you would not say to their face in person.... We all come from varied backgrounds and not everyone has the same thoughts or feelings about some issues. Please be respectful of your fellow Grandparents.com users even if there is a difference of opinion.

Edited by RoseRed135
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GrampsX9, Please sum up your "issues" in an understandable post. 

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PattyGram, that's what I tried to do in the first post of this thread.

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GrampsX9, your briefing has holes, I do not understand your "issues". 

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When adding the two threads together, there have been over 225 posts.  Most of these are members trying their best to give advice that gramps simply might not have thought of himself.  Some of us have experience in living in a household of several generations, but most of us don't.  Some of us have personal experience dealing with teenaged grands and some of us don't.  Heck, some of us have experience dealing with someone on the spectrum and some of us don't.

I'm sorry gramps if you have issues with our attempted help, but feel free to take what works for you and disregard the rest with a grain of salt like the rest of us have learned to do.

 

Edited by SueSTx
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JanelleK,

My only problem with participating here has been misquotes and misunderstandings of my statements.  Maybe this is normal in a group of seniors?

OK, right, I dislike their religion. Well, it seems so and if you let anyone know that it may be a part of your problem. Would be for me, nobody criticizes our faith/Church/religious choices and gets to be around us, EVER.  Big, unnecessary "if".  They know that I left their church many years ago.  But I went to church with them last Sunday, and was respectful to everyone I met there, and I have said nothing disrespectful about their church to any of them.

I liked my DIL until a few days after I moved into this house, when I got word through my DS that my coming upstairs was making her nervous.  And it's been downhill since then.  Yes, I accuse her of being overprotective of her kids.  That realization hit me like a flash during one of my few dinners with the family after moving in here.  Your implication that I disliked her from the beginning is WRONG. I said you don't care for your DIL, it appears you don't, I didn't set a time frame  You strongly implied a time frame when you opined that I should not have entered into this arrangement when I disliked her.  Am I reading your words correctly?

And I like her parents.  I've said nothing about her father.  And I expressed dislike for the fact that her mother is given more privilege than me.  But why turn that into dislike for the mother herself? I like DIL's mother. Seems to me like you expressed a dislike for DILs mom/parent(s), I apparently read your words incorrectly

And I even dislike "etc", I'm afraid to ask what "etc" means. 

You may pick apart my words all you wish, I write poorly and imprecisely. But it's sorta silly to ask for advice and then proceed to be crabby over what's given - jumping to defending yourself vs thinking about what you may be bringing to the fuss.  I agree that my first priority should be to get the good out of what is given.  And, in a recent post, I expressed my appreciation.  But here's the thing:  I have to react to wrong-headed statements because they can send the whole thread off into the wrong direction.  If even RoseRed replies "Points taken", we're off into the Twilight Zone.  Anyways, you apparently went into this mess without asking enough questions or ironing out details. Yes, I did. I'd say that, along with a desire to not "lose" fees and other sums in this bad RE transaction is most of your problem. And gossiping with other family members likely isn't helping much either.

ETA: to what Rose says below, I also wondered if you verbally accused DIL to her face, their faces or DS face - of being overprotective.  Let's stop imagining me being stupid, OK?  I make enough stupid mistakes without imagining more. My MIL was exceedingly overprotective, it would have been rude beyond rude for me to ever say such to anyone but my husband. I would never verbally criticize my ACIL or my siblings spouses, ever. Mostly because it's unforgivably wrong, imo, to say anything against anyone's marriage if one is not living in it. There are lots of things my jerky BIL does that make me nuts, not my place to do anything but smile and walk away, same with ODS first wife (additionally she is mother to 2 of my grands). Discretion, shut up and color, it works. Being older does not make one wiser, being Patriarchal/Matriarchal is disgusting - if one finds those traits inside their own heart they have found something to work against.

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Gramps, I need you to look at the "big picture" of all of these responses. As Pattygram says there are "holes" in your first briefing. Not knowing you or your family we can't see the parts you take for granted that may be important to the story. And no one has imagined you stupid. What I've taken away from this is you are generous and caring and expect others to be the same to you in return. Your feelings are hurt because that didn't happen. The problem now is what to do moving forward.

The Mormon faith can be all consuming, but you already know that. It's something you'll have to accept about your son & family. That you choose to no longer participate fully is something they have to accept & respect about you. My late DH's family has a large Mormon component...been there, done that...DH had to extract a promise from his cousin NOT to baptize him posthumously. 

You being on the autism spectrum is a stumbling block. My #2 grandson is on the tip of the spectrum....and his life is tougher in some ways. He's very exacting in what he wants and thinks he needs. His rigidness in some areas holds him back. He'll be a continual work in progress in those areas. And its frustrating to him to see his classmates sail thru those areas when he sees it as a mountain. As an adult, this is where a good life coach can benefit you. You can learn some new techniques for navigating the tough parts of your life. The rest of the world isn't wrong and neither are you...it's just different and you need find your path toward the common goals.

I have no experience in a multigenerational household other than when I was a child/teenager. At different points my grandmothers lived with my family. When I was an older teen my MGM had been ill and could no longer live alone. She was with us for more than a year before moving to a facility. The difference was that she was IN THE HOUSE, not a separate apartment. I think now how hard that must have been for her after living independently her entire adult life...even living with her daughter had to be hard. PGM lived with us over the time I was born. I'm sure she was a huge help to my mom with two little kids, but still that's an extra person in the house (and that house wasn't very big)...my mom was over it quickly.

Again, if the situation just isn't going to work get the information you need to make the change. See the real estate attorney/tax guy...see the estate planner/trust attorney. Being proactive gives you personal power.

Get all of your ducks in a satisfying row. Then you can move forward in your dealing with your son. Consider getting some family counseling. If they won't go, go alone. 

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34 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

Gramps, I need you to look at the "big picture" of all of these responses. As Pattygram says there are "holes" in your first briefing. Not knowing you or your family we can't see the parts you take for granted that may be important to the story. And no one has imagined you stupid. What I've taken away from this is you are generous and caring and expect others to be the same to you in return. Your feelings are hurt because that didn't happen. The problem now is what to do moving forward.

The Mormon faith can be all consuming, but you already know that. It's something you'll have to accept about your son & family. That you choose to no longer participate fully is something they have to accept & respect about you. My late DH's family has a large Mormon component...been there, done that...DH had to extract a promise from his cousin NOT to baptize him posthumously. 

You being on the autism spectrum is a stumbling block. My #2 grandson is on the tip of the spectrum....and his life is tougher in some ways. He's very exacting in what he wants and thinks he needs. His rigidness in some areas holds him back. He'll be a continual work in progress in those areas. And its frustrating to him to see his classmates sail thru those areas when he sees it as a mountain. As an adult, this is where a good life coach can benefit you. You can learn some new techniques for navigating the tough parts of your life. The rest of the world isn't wrong and neither are you...it's just different and you need find your path toward the common goals.

I have no experience in a multigenerational household other than when I was a child/teenager. At different points my grandmothers lived with my family. When I was an older teen my MGM had been ill and could no longer live alone. She was with us for more than a year before moving to a facility. The difference was that she was IN THE HOUSE, not a separate apartment. I think now how hard that must have been for her after living independently her entire adult life...even living with her daughter had to be hard. PGM lived with us over the time I was born. I'm sure she was a huge help to my mom with two little kids, but still that's an extra person in the house (and that house wasn't very big)...my mom was over it quickly.

Again, if the situation just isn't going to work get the information you need to make the change. See the real estate attorney/tax guy...see the estate planner/trust attorney. Being proactive gives you personal power.

Get all of your ducks in a satisfying row. Then you can move forward in your dealing with your son. Consider getting some family counseling. If they won't go, go alone. 

If you need useful posts, try briefing better and less defensively. I don't understand your OP at "255 posts" and counting. I see huge oversize expectations in your posts.  

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4 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

 

ETA: to what Rose says below, I also wondered if you verbally accused DIL to her face, their faces or DS face - of being overprotective.  Let's stop imagining me being stupid, OK?  I make enough stupid mistakes without imagining more. 

Gramps, I take it your reply means that you haven't mentioned the "overprotective" issue to DS or DIL. I'm glad, as I think that would only increase tensions.

But asking that question doesn't mean anyone is "imagining (you) being stupid." Some otherwise very intelligent GPs make the mistake of criticizing their AC's or CiL's parenting, often in an effort to "help"/give them the "benefit of (the GP's) experience." Not every GP realizes how that can backfire. Fortunately, it seems that you do. :)

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5 hours ago, PattyGram said:

GrampsX9, your briefing has holes, I do not understand your "issues". 

I'm not Gramps, but I think his issues are fairly straightforward. He thought they were going to share a large part of the house, w/ his going to his apt only to sleep, etc. (like a bedroom). But DS & DIL see it more as a landlord-tenant situation. Be that as it may, he would like more time w/ them, especially w/ his GC. For example, while he appreciates being invited to dinner, now and then, he would like it to be more often, and/or for a longer time period (I don't think it necessarily has to be dinner).. Also, he would like his GC to visit him in his apt, esp. since it seems he's going to be spending a lot of time there, but that hasn't been happening. (Fortunately, DS may have hit upon a way that it would - board games). All this is especially frustrating for him since he bought the house and is paying the mortgage. And he's concerned that since DS and DIL didn't like the album he gifted them w/, he might not be invited to any further dinners, for a while, at all.

Have I got that right, Gramps? Please feel free to correct me wherever I'm wrong.

Edited by RoseRed135
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Thank you, RoseRed.  That is a good lay person's summary of my issues.  I was trying to figure out whether PattyGram wanted this (which is already available, but not as concisely as you put it), or something more technical.  I'm seeing my doctor for depression tomorrow, and if she refers me to a psychiatrist or psychologist, a technical version may become available.  Legally, my "issue" is three children and nine grandchildren.

By the way, no contact with the family so far this week except for dinner after church, which went well.  And except for brief instructions on where to find the dog food.  (They are going to Salt Lake City tomorrow for the great General Conference of Latter Day Saints, and they asked me to care for the dog while they are gone.)

Edited by GrampsX9

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5 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Thank you, RoseRed.  That is a good lay person's summary of my issues.  I was trying to figure out whether PattyGram wanted this (which is already available, but not as concisely as you put it), or something more technical.  I'm seeing my doctor for depression tomorrow, and if she refers me to a psychiatrist or psychologist, a technical version may become available.  Legally, my "issue" is three children and nine grandchildren.

By the way, no contact with the family so far this week except for dinner after church, which went well.  And except for brief instructions on where to find the dog food.  (They are going to Salt Lake City tomorrow for the great General Conference of Latter Day Saints, and they asked me to care for the dog while they are gone.)

OK, countless undisclosed strings......... 

Edited by PattyGram

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3 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Some otherwise very intelligent GPs make the mistake of criticizing their AC's or CiL's parenting, often in an effort to "help"/give them the "benefit of (the GP's) experience." Not every GP realizes how that can backfire. Fortunately, it seems that you do. :)

Thanks for the warning, I'll be careful.

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3 hours ago, GrampsX9 said:

Thank you, RoseRed.  That is a good lay person's summary of my issues.  I was trying to figure out whether PattyGram wanted this (which is already available, but not as concisely as you put it), or something more technical.  I'm seeing my doctor for depression tomorrow, and if she refers me to a psychiatrist or psychologist, a technical version may become available.  Legally, my "issue" is three children and nine grandchildren.

By the way, no contact with the family so far this week except for dinner after church, which went well.  And except for brief instructions on where to find the dog food.  (They are going to Salt Lake City tomorrow for the great General Conference of Latter Day Saints, and they asked me to care for the dog while they are gone.)

Glad you appreciate my summary, Gramps. It's just a sort of "bare bones" outline, I guess. But I thought it would make it easier for Patty to get the overall gist of the problems that way.

Chuckling at the pun on the word "issue." But speaking of your "nine grandchildren," I imagine the other 6 are your DDs' kids? How far away do they live? Do you ever get to see them these days?

Very sorry that you're suffering from depression, but glad you're seeking help. Hope your doctor can help you out or, if not, direct you to someone who can.

Glad the dinner after church went well! I guess the fact that they let you come w/ them and had you to a pleasant dinner afterwards means they're not still angry about the albums. :)

I know you may wish there had been more contact since then. But besides things like the kids' HW, etc. needing to get done, they are probably all very busy getting ready for their trip.

BTW, It's very kind of you, IMO, to take care of their dog while they're away. I hope you enjoy doing it, but it's good of you, regardless. :)

Edited by RoseRed135
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Good one, sarcastically referencing Mormon Conference as "great".......right fighters rule!!!!! 

Edited by PattyGram
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5 minutes ago, PattyGram said:

Good one, sarcastically referencing Mormon Conference as "great".......right fighters rule!!!!! 

Or "great" could just mean "large." Not easy to be sure if an internet post is sarcastic b/c, as I said earlier, we can't hear "tone."

"Be nice..." to each other, people.

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On 9/28/2017 at 11:29 AM, PattyGram said:

If you need useful posts, try briefing better and less defensively. I don't understand your OP at "255 posts" and counting. I see huge oversize expectations in your posts.

Sentence 1: Of course I need useful posts.  Who wants useless posts?  I kinda get your point, but I tend to break tasks into smaller tasks, answering one statement at a time, so it comes off as defensive instead of a feel-good monologue.

Sentence 2: I don't understand what you don't understand.  I'm at 49 posts.  I've looked & looked & can't find a 255.  After I post this, I'll search the thread for "255" and add an addendum if I find it.

Sentence 3: Please give an example.

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If you add together the total post on both of the threads you have opened, the total post right now is 121 + 120 = 241

Are you trying to say you have no expectations for your son and his family as far as living together is concerned?

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Yes, but technical point - Gramps didn't open the other thread - I did. He only opened this one.

But no matter. IDKY Patty brought up the number of posts, anyhow. Her point in that sentence was that she didn't understand your OP (original/opening post). Usually, that refers to first post in a thread, so that would mean the first post in this thread, However, in this case, Patty might have meant your first post of all, which would be your first reply to the other thread. IDK.

But overall, she said she didn't get what your "'issues'" are, which is why I summarized them as best I could. Hopefully, she understands the issues now.

@PattyGram - Apparently, even before I gave my summary, you saw "oversized expectations." I'm not sure if you mean on Gramps' part , on DS'/DIL's part of both. I agree w/ him that you need to give an example or two.

After my summary and Gramps response to it, you also said you see "countless undisclosed strings." Again, I'm not sure on whose part. And so, again, I think it would be helpful if you gave examples.

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4 hours ago, SueSTx said:

Are you trying to say you have no expectations for your son and his family as far as living together is concerned?

I absolutely did have expectations, summarized in the OP (now I know what OP stands for) of this thread and in RoseRed's Thursday 2:47 pm post.  I wonder if @PattyGram has read either of those?

I agree with the previous owner of this house (who, FWIW, is a member of the upstairs family's church), who said, "I'd expect that you would be welcome up there at any time."  Was he just humoring me?  Of course there would be some limits.  He didn't say, and I'm not saying, "welcome anywhere up there".

My family, my house.

Edited by GrampsX9
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