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RoseRed135

Controversy over National Anthem and NFL players!

153 posts in this topic

Two thoughts:

The squeaky wheel gets the most grease

and

open mouth insert foot

 

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He's being punished for being a patriot by way of protesting an american habit for what its supposed to represent but doesnt-

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

He's being punished for being a patriot by way of protesting an american habit for what its supposed to represent but doesnt-

This, IMO, is a broad generalization. Please be more specific of your meaning

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2 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

This, IMO, is a broad generalization. Please be more specific of your meaning

Was Rosa Parks a patriot?

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That's not an answer

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Its a response-

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Defend your position.

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There's nothing to defend- Its evident- Therefore, all it calls for is support- 

By kneeling he is petitioning the government to fulfill its obligation to uphold constitutional rights for all, this is evident- The ways in which he is being punished for this are also evident-

 

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I'm talking about YOUR position, not just rhetoric. 

Here is the NFL rule:

A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:
“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition…
…It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

I'm not sure what they are actually protesting. The system clearly has significant flaws. However, why would you protest a system that allows you to make multi millions of dollars for playing a game regardless of race? 

And, habit? Really? 

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51 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

I'm talking about YOUR position, not just rhetoric. 

Here is the NFL rule:

A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:
“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition…
…It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

I'm not sure what they are actually protesting. The system clearly has significant flaws. However, why would you protest a system that allows you to make multi millions of dollars for playing a game regardless of race? 

And, habit? Really? 

Actually...not completely true.

Before, attending the anthem was optional. It became mandatory in 2009, and speculation is that's when the DOD started paying the NFL for players to do so. (They do know it was paid for, for certain, by 2011, through 2014.

http://www.snopes.com/nfl-sideline-anthem/

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You indicated that you dont know why they are protesting- Is that because youve read why they said they are and dont believe it for personal reasons or because you simply never read their reasons regarding why they are?

 

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Yes, habit- And conditioning- And some stand because if they dont they will be penalized- But at least those that stand for the last one  mentioned do so for a reason: the money means more to them- Those that dont stand have different convictions-

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They are protesting racial injustice, police brutality towards POC, and a mass incarceration system that has essentially taken the place of the old Jim Crow laws. Are people who are well-off or famous not allowed to use their positions and power to amplify the voices of those without position or power? 

 

If truly want to have a better understanding of what they are protesting then please start doing some research by watching the documentary 13th and reading Michelle Alexander's book - The New Jim Crow:Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. You could also look for Ms. Alexander's lecture on this topic. It should be up on youtube. 

 

I support and applaud the players taking a knee. I would do the same if the opportunity arose. I have a friend who is a vet. He was an infantryman. He fully supports and applauds the kneeling players because he fought for their right to do that. He sees those players as patriots. He did not fight to defend a song or a piece of cloth. He fought to defend what those things are supposed to represent. 

Edited by britomart
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8 hours ago, Komorebi said:

 

By kneeling he is petitioning the government to fulfill its obligation to uphold constitutional rights for all, this is evident- The ways in which he is being punished for this are also evident-

 

Just to clarify - Who does "he" refer to (b/c several players have "taken a knee," not just one). And what are you seeing as "punishment?" As far as I know, the NFL hasn't taken any action against the protesting players. Am I wrong?

Edited by RoseRed135

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A person can do a "google" search and find many statements as to any reason why protestors are protesting any number of things.  I think many of us are really trying to understand their POV because it simply isn't the same as ours.

Everybody (red and yellow, black and white etc) have the right to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.  The general public also has the freedom to disagree by refusing to participate if so desired.

The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.  I think this is where many people find themselves now.  

While doing my "search", I came across a young man by the name of Brandon Tatum who just happens to be black.  He has many videos online and seems to be a very articulate young man.  He seems to have many opinions that I hear locals express.  So are their opinions simply racist?

Who we choose to believe is up to us.  Whether or not we agree falls under our freedom of expression.

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5 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Just to clarify - Who does "he" refer to (b/c several players have "taken a knee," not just one). And what are you seeing as "punishment?" As far as I know, the NFL hasn't taken any action against the protesting players. Am I wrong?

Colin Kaepernick- The rest is up to any one of us to discover what they believe is true or isn't- What is evident is that he is an above-average quarterback without a job -- and that no other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long-

Edited by Komorebi

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23 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Colin Kaepernick- The rest is up to any one of us to discover what they believe is true or isn't- What is evident is that he is an above-average quarterback without a job -- and that no other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long-

Ok, I see. But my understanding is that Kaepernick voluntarily left his prior team to become a free agent. Granted, it was due to controversy over his protest of the National Anthem. But, to my knowledge, he wasn't fired. Are you suggesting that no one will touch him b/c of his protest?

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28 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

 What is evident is that he is an above-average quarterback without a job -- and that no other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long-

Tim Tebow???  I'm not a football fanatic, but my understanding is the list is long.  There are a lot of above average quarterbacks without a job.  Maybe above average isn't good enough.

I have to wonder if he would be kneeling during the national anthem at his own sons football games.  Does he do this every single time he hears the national anthem.  Or is it only when he is in the spotlight?

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1 hour ago, SueSTx said:

A person can do a "google" search and find many statements as to any reason why protestors are protesting any number of things.  I think many of us are really trying to understand their POV because it simply isn't the same as ours.

Everybody (red and yellow, black and white etc) have the right to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.  The general public also has the freedom to disagree by refusing to participate if so desired.

The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.  I think this is where many people find themselves now.  

While doing my "search", I came across a young man by the name of Brandon Tatum who just happens to be black.  He has many videos online and seems to be a very articulate young man.  He seems to have many opinions that I hear locals express.  So are their opinions simply racist?

Who we choose to believe is up to us.  Whether or not we agree falls under our freedom of expression.

It isn't a matter of belief- It's a matter of either acknowledging facts or choosing not to- Plenty of people "believed" that blacks were treated fairly when lynched- They didn't see a human being swinging from a tree -- simply because they weren't white- 

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28 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

Ok, I see. But my understanding is that Kaepernick voluntarily left his prior team to become a free agent. Granted, it was due to controversy over his protest of the National Anthem. But, to my knowledge, he wasn't fired. Are you suggesting that no one will touch him b/c of his protest?

I'm stating a fact: No other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long-

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23 minutes ago, skipped said:

Tim Tebow???  I'm not a football fanatic, but my understanding is the list is long.  There are a lot of above average quarterbacks without a job.  Maybe above average isn't good enough.

I have to wonder if he would be kneeling during the national anthem at his own sons football games.  Does he do this every single time he hears the national anthem.  Or is it only when he is in the spotlight?

No other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long- His parents support him- As for your last two questions, I do not know-

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1 hour ago, skipped said:

 

I have to wonder if he would be kneeling during the national anthem at his own sons football games.  Does he do this every single time he hears the national anthem.  Or is it only when he is in the spotlight?

Why does it matter? He is obviously doing it at least partly to make a public statement and cause a national conversation. I don't know about him but if my children played sports I would take a knee for the anthem. I saw a beautiful image yesterday of an entire high school girls volleyball team taking a knee in protest. I guess we could ask if all the offended angry people stand for the anthem while watching at home.

Edited by britomart
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13 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Ok, I see. But my understanding is that Kaepernick voluntarily left his prior team to become a free agent. Granted, it was due to controversy over his protest of the National Anthem. But, to my knowledge, he wasn't fired. Are you suggesting that no one will touch him b/c of his protest?

Yes, it is widely accepted that Colin Kaepernick is not playing because of his actions during the National Anthem.

ETA: Yet, disgusting #7 plays for Pittsburgh. And some people believe Bill Cosby's story about sexual abuse/rape too.

My opinion, the NFL is a rich "boys will be boys" club. I'm not impressed.

ETA: I asked and was sent this quote:  " Kaepernick's career was on a downswing before 2016. But then, this past season, he threw for 16 touchdowns, four interceptions on a terrible San Francisco 49ers team and led all NFL players in yards per carry and had the second-most rushing yards of any NFL quarterback. And when you look at some of the other quarterbacks who have been signed this offseason as backups, it's really stunning." 

Yes, Colin Kaepernick is considered an excellent QB.

Edited by JanelleK
Removed white (from club), remembered Jaguars owner is Pakistani

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9 hours ago, Komorebi said:

No other above-average quarterback has been without a job for this long- His parents support him- As for your last two questions, I do not know-

  1. So the only reason that he's been without a job for this long is that his parents support him?   That seems to me a negative rather than a positive.
  2. Do you think Tim Tebow is not a starting QB because he is a Christian?
  3. Like I said I know little to nothing about football, but there are a lot of stasticians out there that aren't impressed w Kaerpernicks performance.
  4.  

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