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RoseRed135

Controversy over National Anthem and NFL players!

153 posts in this topic

I dont know that he is a golden child but do know he has done charitable works -- including in the Bay area community- 

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1 hour ago, SueSTx said:

I just read another article about the "kneeling".  It had many well made points and ended with:

Do whatever it is your heart desires - other than agreeing that the government should feel emboldened to suggest limiting how and when a citizen of this country can protest. Not here. Not under our flag.

Good idea.

PS:  my own sister is retired military as is her husband and her best friend.  She promotes standing.  It is all a personal choice.

 

Totally agree. However, when I see someone lecturing the spouse of an active military personnel, telling them how they SHOULD feel about it, I get a wee bit boggled.

I always find it interesting how folks who have never served, didn't have a parent, sibling, spouse, or child who served, are experts on what is patriotism, what veterans want/feel/need. 

If folks *really* want to support vets, then do your best to talk to your reps about vets having better access to health care (mental and physical), better pay, better supports/housing/etc for their families.

And that's not just a US aimed comment. Canada needs to do a much better job for their military and families.

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If folks *really* want to support vets, then do your best to talk to your reps about vets having better access to health care (mental and physical), better pay, better supports/housing/etc for their families.

But shouldn't this work for any group with issues...more talking needs to take place across the board.  Even with problems between couples, we say communicate, communicate, communicate.

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2 hours ago, Komorebi said:

I dont know that he is a golden child but do know he has done charitable works -- including in the Bay area community- 

Follow the career of a "star" athlete, all the way back to middle school/high school days. These kids get so many 'passes' in their lives the system should be embarrassed. Brock Turner is a front page example. 

Most of our "locals" do participate in some sort of charitable works, as do most pro athletes, it's encouraged. Jharel Cotton of the Athletics is from the US Virgin Islands; he's started his own hurricane relief project. Others also have pet projects. Retired A's Rickey Henderson & Dave Stewart, who both went to high school here are both very active in community affairs. Henderson was lower middle class, public schools, Stew "ghetto" class, but fully understands that the perks he received as a teen (private school scholarship) were precious gifts providing him a way out. He's also a recipient of the Roberto Clemente Award ( The Roberto Clemente Award is given annually to the Major League Baseball (MLB) player who "best exemplifies the game of baseball, sportsmanship, community involvement and the individual's contribution to his team", as voted on by baseball fans and members of the media).

Kaepernick pledged $1M to various "oppressed" causes. And he's following thru. That speaks more to me than his kneeling. He grew up in the California Central Valley, serious farming communities so he should be well aware of the social issues of migrant farm workers. And, since he's biracial with white adoptive parents growing up in a predominantly white/Hispanic atmosphere, he'd have personal cultural concerns.

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4 hours ago, Mame925 said:

 

Kaepernick played locally...so I saw far more of him than most...was never much of a fan to begin with. I've always had trouble with the 'spoiled golden child" being the spokesperson for social injustice. Get involved in the communities where change is needed. 

 

But isn't it a good thing when a "spoiled golden child" can think beyond themselves enough to speak out about social injustice? Do the "'passes'" that someone may have gotten in life mean that can't protest as they see fit (again, only speaking of peaceful protest)?

19 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

Follow the career of a "star" athlete, all the way back to middle school/high school days. These kids get so many 'passes' in their lives the system should be embarrassed. Brock Turner is a front page example. 

 

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@britomart - I don't think POC protesting is "uppity" either. I'm another one who's sorry if you - or any other POC - has been made to feel that way. Personally, I haven't heard/seen anyone complaining about people protesting b/c they're POC though. I've heard/read about some complaining about successful football players protesting injustice.

@ All - I have to admit, I don't fully understand that either. IMO, it's kind of like when some people criticized the Kennedys for concern w/ Civil Rights/social justice. Does being rich or famous, etc mean you're not allowed to have a heart? I don't think so. .

About Berkeley - If I recall correctly, they canceled those speeches out of fear for the safety of the speakers, etc. due to concerns about violent protest. - not in an effort to be PC or anything like that. Perhaps they could/should have found a better way to resolve this issue. But, TBF, they probably weren't prepared for such a reaction since the do have a history of being a bastion of free speech.

ETA: @britomart & @skipped - I take it skipped that your comparing the poem about black protesters to brit's having stated (in a prior thread) that she "(wasn't) sure if (she) could've respected (her) father if he'd voted for Trump." But I don't see where she said she would have COd him for that. Also, the poem is complaining about a group of people being criticized for every action that others don't agree with. I don't see how brit's concern about one vote would be quite the same as that. As she points out, herself, she didn' have an issue w/ her dad voting for Bush, even though she didn't agree. Her only problem would have been w/ a Trump vote on his part.

Edited by RoseRed135
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17 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

Do the "'passes'" that someone may have gotten in life mean that can't protest as they see fit (again, only speaking of peaceful protest)?

No.  And anyways many star athletes don't get special passes, their feet are held to the same fire/detention as any other kid.

2 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

@britomart - I don't think POC protesting is "uppity" either. I'm another one who's sorry if you - or any other POC - has been made to feel that way. Personally, I haven't heard/seen anyone complaining about people protesting b/c they're POC though. I've heard/read about some complaining about successful football players protesting injustice.

@ All - I have to admit, I don't fully understand that either. IMO, it's kind of like when some people criticized the Kennedys for concern w/ Civil Rights/social justice. Does being rich or famous, etc mean you're not allowed to have a heart? I don't think so. .

Yep.  I think it's a good thing when people find a way to use their gifts for causes near to their hearts.

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If interested, Google Colin Kaepernick's film shows there is no excuse for him to be unemployed -- its an article at SBNATION

I found another interesting article: Colin Kaepernick's hometown deeply divided over QB'S protest- 

It seems, for some, he was alright in highschool when he looked more white, opppsed to him later on down the road looking black- Now thats his own hometown .. hometowns all across America- 

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29 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

@britomart - I don't think POC protesting is "uppity" either. I'm another one who's sorry if you - or any other POC - has been made to feel that way. Personally, I haven't heard/seen anyone complaining about people protesting b/c they're POC though. I've heard/read about some complaining about successful football players protesting injustice.

@ All - I have to admit, I don't fully understand that either. IMO, it's kind of like when some people criticized the Kennedys for concern w/ Civil Rights/social justice. Does being rich or famous, etc mean you're not allowed to have a heart? I don't think so. .

About Berkeley - If I recall correctly, they canceled those speeches out of fear for the safety of the speakers, etc. due to concerns about violent protest. - not in an effort to be PC or anything like that. Perhaps they could/should have found a better way to resolve this issue. But, TBF, they probably weren't prepared for such a reaction since the do have a history of being a bastion of free speech.

Excellent older article called the coddling of the American mind -- excellent- 

Berkley may have canceled because they feared for the safety of the speakers- But it seems to me that more and more universities are actually supportive of the dumbing down of free speech to down right not allowing it because they, the faculty, are afraid for the students who are afraid to hear what others have to say-

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2 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

@britomart - I don't think POC protesting is "uppity" either. I'm another one who's sorry if you - or any other POC - has been made to feel that way. Personally, I haven't heard/seen anyone complaining about people protesting b/c they're POC though. I've heard/read about some complaining about successful football players protesting injustice.

@ All - I have to admit, I don't fully understand that either. IMO, it's kind of like when some people criticized the Kennedys for concern w/ Civil Rights/social justice. Does being rich or famous, etc mean you're not allowed to have a heart? I don't think so. .

About Berkeley - If I recall correctly, they canceled those speeches out of fear for the safety of the speakers, etc. due to concerns about violent protest. - not in an effort to be PC or anything like that. Perhaps they could/should have found a better way to resolve this issue. But, TBF, they probably weren't prepared for such a reaction since the do have a history of being a bastion of free speech.

ETA: @britomart & @skipped - I take it skipped that your comparing the poem about black protesters to brit's having stated (in a prior thread) that she "(wasn't) sure if (she) could've respected (her) father if he'd voted for Trump." But I don't see where she said she would have COd him for that. Also, the poem is complaining about a group of people being criticized for every action that others don't agree with. I don't see how brit's concern about one vote would be quite the same as that. As she points out, herself, she didn' have an issue w/ her dad voting for Bush, even though she didn't agree. Her only problem would have been w/ a Trump vote on his part.

Brit was extremely ****** at all Trump voters.  Called them ALL racists.  She admitted it was a good thing  her dad didn't vote for Trump because she wouldn't have wanted to talk to him (and neither would her mother either);  ETA again. Brit said she could tolerate her dad voting for GW Bush but Trump was different. 

ETA Hillary called 1/2 the Trump voters deplorable.  Some say it might have been one of the things that cost her the election.  You insinuate every Trump voter  is deplorable because they are either racist or tolerate racism. . So Brit, here is a suggestion, if you want to know how to protest so that you won't offend peoples "tender sensibilitites" so that people would consider accepting  your protests and your positions.  DON'T call them racist.  They just might not like it.

Edited by skipped

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

@ All - I have to admit, I don't fully understand that either. IMO, it's kind of like when some people criticized the Kennedys for concern w/ Civil Rights/social justice. Does being rich or famous, etc mean you're not allowed to have a heart? I don't think so. .

I've always felt the Kennedy's led by example in social issues, continuing to teach each generation the value of public service. Being rich & famous gives a person the avenue to bring attention to issues AND should also, like the Kennedy's to effect change. "Taking a knee" brings attention to issues...but do enough people know there is a next step?

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2 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

I've always felt the Kennedy's led by example in social issues, continuing to teach each generation the value of public service. Being rich & famous gives a person the avenue to bring attention to issues AND should also, like the Kennedy's to effect change. "Taking a knee" brings attention to issues...but do enough people know there is a next step?

I think it's a good start to at least get people to acknowledge there is a problem.  Taking the knee brings attention to the problem and gets people talking, like we are doing now.  It's a start.

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1 hour ago, skipped said:

Brit was extremely ****** at all Trump voters.  Called them ALL racists.  She admitted it was a good thing  her dad didn't vote for Trump because she wouldn't have wanted to talk to him (and neither would her mother either);  ETA again. You said you could tolerate your dad voting for GW Bush but Trump was different. 

ETA Hillary called 1/2 the Trump voters deplorable.  Some say it might have been one of the things that cost her the election.  You called every Trump voter  deplorable. So Brit, here is a suggestion, if you want to know how to protest so that you won't offend peoples "tender sensibilitites" so that people would consider accepting  your protests and your positions.  DON'T call them racist.  They just might not like it.

Yup, I don't think I could speak to my dad if he had voted for Trump.  I would have lost all respect for him if he had voted for such a blatant unapologetic racist.  For my own father to be so racist and self-loathing would have sickened me.  

Thanks for the suggestion skipped.  I will have to remember that calling a racist a racist might hurt their feelings.  

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4 hours ago, Mame925 said:

Follow the career of a "star" athlete, all the way back to middle school/high school days. These kids get so many 'passes' in their lives the system should be embarrassed. Brock Turner is a front page example.

Brock Turner is a good comparison to Pittsburgh's horrid disgusting #7 (who settled). Three months served - really?

Edited by JanelleK
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On 9/27/2017 at 9:16 PM, Mame925 said:

I've always felt the Kennedy's led by example in social issues, continuing to teach each generation the value of public service. Being rich & famous gives a person the avenue to bring attention to issues AND should also, like the Kennedy's to effect change. "Taking a knee" brings attention to issues...but do enough people know there is a next step?

Mame. I'm not even sure if enough people know what's being protested. There's more hoopla about the kneeling, IMO, than there is explanation.

Then again, I've been thinking what brit says below - it has started a national dialogue.

On 9/27/2017 at 9:20 PM, britomart said:

I think it's a good start to at least get people to acknowledge there is a problem.  Taking the knee brings attention to the problem and gets people talking, like we are doing now.  It's a start.

 

Edited by RoseRed135
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DH was in the military over 30 years protecting the right to free speach. Taking knee during the Anthem isn't his approach, but he'll defend the right to protest by peaceful means. 

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20 hours ago, britomart said:

Yup, I don't think I could speak to my dad if he had voted for Trump.  I would have lost all respect for him if he had voted for such a blatant unapologetic racist.  For my own father to be so racist and self-loathing would have sickened me.  

Thanks for the suggestion skipped.  I will have to remember that calling a racist a racist might hurt their feelings.  

Absolutely. Anyone who gave a pass to Trump's endorsement by white supremacists are unable to deny that he's clearly sympathetic to the white nationalists/supremacists. Their vote in 2020 will say a lot about where they stand.

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I noticed some were kneeling with their hand over their heart.

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Just now, SueSTx said:

I noticed some were kneeling with their hand over their heart.

I noticed that, too.

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Athletic's catcher Bruce Maxwell was the first MLB player to kneel during the anthem. Here is his perspective:

"The point of my kneeling is not to disrespect our military," he said, according to Jane Lee of MLB.com. "It's not to disrespect our constitution. It's not to disrespect our country. My hand was over my heart because I love this country. I've had plenty of family members, including my father, that have bled for this country, that continue to serve for this country ... But my kneeling is what is getting the attention, because I'm kneeling for the people who don't have a voice."

gettyimages-853141460.jpg

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The flag is used for an abundance of purposes and cherished in many ways. DH tells a colleague's story of seeing the flag patch on the rescuer as a rescuee sea downed in an F4 "rock" (don't glide, piloting a shot up rock to the sea for a helicopter rescue was challenging). Salute he did in the Gulf of Tonkin.  

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My opinion on protesting what you feel is wrong, unfair, etc. is that it should be done so that you're not harming another OR infringing on another's right to be.  For instance, the Baltimore 'protests' after a young man died in police custody.  Those were not protests.  Those were riots.  They destroyed peoples property, burned down businesses, etc.  What did they accomplish?  Nothing.  The protests in CA at the colleges where property was destroyed and where people who disagreed with one side were maced and attacked.  Just because someone disagrees with your protest doesn't give you the right to attack them, assault them, etc.  Take a knee, picket, bouycott, etc. go for it just don't attack me or mine with we disagree with you.  Don't throw rocks, run through the street, burn cars, houses, businesses.  For that you (I mean the general you throughout this post) you should be arrested.  The only point you're making in doing so is that your a criminal and you should be treated as such.

Do I think that the players have a right to take a knee?  Absolutely.  Do i think it's wrong?  For me personally, yes.  

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Can someone, anyone, be more specific regarding what it means to infringe on another's right to be during a protest?

The problem, to me, seems logistical- It appears protests are now expected to not block traffic regardless of how many people turn out- This isn't even possible game day downtown where it took me nearly an hour and half to get a pizza due to the amount of cars, fans, redirection of traffic flow, supply trucks on side streets near the stadium- Because it's a scheduled sporting event it's acceptable but not acceptable if the event is a protest- That alone seems to me like an infringement of rights-

Edited by Komorebi

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When president Obama came to speak the streets were CLOGGED with people-

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