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RoseRed135

Controversy over National Anthem and NFL players!

153 posts in this topic

Let's not forget the damage to people that takes place -- specifically by the police-

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On social media, my friends are threatening a boycott if the kneeling continues.  

The players have the right to protest, but the customers have the right not to watch.  Who wins?

The pocket book?

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It seemed like the protest became about the national anthem and not about racial injustice. People were talking but not about what needed to change. If you click on the link about the NBA at the bottom of the article there are some suggestions for other ways to protest. I like the idea of a joint pregame address. Why now? Maybe the boycott is hitting someone's wallet.

Edited by homeygfunk
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I think it always comes down to money. It would be very easy for me to boycott a game where it's participants seem to be hypocrites. They have been given and have earned so much, there has to be a better way for them to draw attention to the social issues.

A few years ago entertainer Brian McKnight spoke at a rally at one of my high schools. He was a friend of an alum, they met at USC while both students. The friend went on to play in the NFL. This is an underserved Title I school. The gist of the speech was to "follow your dream, not the crowd". He spoke of being a music geek in high school...he plays at least 8 instruments...music kept him out of trouble. There are those who can say the same for sports. Take what you have and use it to inspire others. Mentor...

I mentioned retired Oakland A's pitcher Dave Stewart in an other thread. He's a local, grew up about 5 miles from me, in what seems like a different country. He had some bumps along the way, but is monumental as youth inspiration...same as McKnight...follow your dream. That's how you get yourself out, don't wait for someone to hand it to you. 

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I was always taught the way you say something is just as important as what you say.  You have a right to say it in any manner you choose, but the way it is being presented is taking away from the message.  Why not try something more effective?

I think I mentioned this in another post about a Democratic congressperson or senator, who way making a speech about health care.  My husband is very conservative and he was actually on board with this guy until he started saying nasty things about republicans. 

We have a local conservation park group for our mostly republican county.  They are really careful not to politicize their agenda because they don't want to offend the voters. They do want their levies passed.

Protest smart.  Don't call people names.  Don't do activities that will alienate the people you want to get on your side.

7 hours ago, homeygfunk said:

It seemed like the protest became about the national anthem and not about racial injustice. People were talking but not about what needed to change. If you click on the link about the NBA at the bottom of the article there are some suggestions for other ways to protest. I like the idea of a joint pregame address. Why now? Maybe the boycott is hitting someone's wallet.

 

Edited by skipped
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Edison said there's always a better way- And he found that out by making an effort to create and create change- He experienced many better ways along the way- The NFL protests are a better way along the way to drawing attention to social injustices-

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45 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

The NFL protests are a better way along the way to drawing attention to social injustices-

Except that these protests are lost in a mire of politics, half truths and publicity stunts. There are actually people out in the real world who think Mike Pence planned to spend the afternoon at an NFL game, but was so offended by the players taking a knee that he just couldn't stay any longer....Really? Swamp land in Arizona, people.

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4 hours ago, Mame925 said:

Except that these protests are lost in a mire of politics, half truths and publicity stunts. There are actually people out in the real world who think Mike Pence planned to spend the afternoon at an NFL game, but was so offended by the players taking a knee that he just couldn't stay any longer....Really? Swamp land in Arizona, people.

What ongoing protests in the past haven't been infused with politics, half truths, publicity stunts, division and sometimes violence? Demonstrations, peaceful or otherwise, are designed to draw attention to issues- Even the most peaceful have been met with violence- That being the case, I'm not so sure I'm inclined to buy into the idea that now isn't the right time or that the stadium isn't the right place- It's understandable that some fans aren't interested while others show support- But it truly was unreasonable to partner nationalism and sports to begin with when not all athletes are nationalists and neither are all of the fans- Some are patriots- We will never all get behind our country solely for what it does in the same way we will never all show our support for a single team- There will always be divisions- But occasionally a patriot shows up unexpectedly in a place many wouldn't have expected one to, or believe they should, to carry out a civil service for a country he or she is proud of -- in this case by calling attention to an issue that needs to be corrected- Sometimes people take one for the home team- And when they do some express their gratitude while others don't-    

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Is there a point in there somewhere?

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Oh, say, can you (general) see? :)

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by the dawnzerly light .. lmao ..

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Actually, no

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Maybe I should have sung Dixieland .. :)

Edited by Komorebi

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Still no point

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7 hours ago, Komorebi said:

...calling attention to an issue that needs to be corrected... 

But, unfortunately, kneeling, etc. didn't seem to call attention to the issue (social justice) that it was supposed to be about. Homey is right, IMO - it became about something else (disrespect of this country and those who have fought and died for it). I understand what the kneelers have been trying to say, but many people, it seems, were getting the wrong message.

21 hours ago, homeygfunk said:

It seemed like the protest became about the national anthem and not about racial injustice. People were talking but not about what needed to change.

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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23 hours ago, SueSTx said:

On social media, my friends are threatening a boycott if the kneeling continues.  

The players have the right to protest, but the customers have the right not to watch.  Who wins?

The pocket book?

I think you got it, ladies. Boycotts, no doubt, can be very effective. And I guess football is no exception.

20 hours ago, homeygfunk said:

. Why now? Maybe the boycott is hitting someone's wallet.

 

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3 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

But, unfortunately, kneeling, etc. didn't seem to call attention to the issue (social justice) that it was supposed to be about. Homey is right, IMO - it became about something else (disrespect of this country and those who have fought and died for it). I understand what the kneelers have been trying to say, but many people, it seems, were getting the wrong message.

 

Rose, it did and continues to call attention to the specific social injustice it was designed to and continues to promote ongoing dialogue such as the exchanges taking place in this thread- Another result of the kneeling has also led to discussions about the flag and those who have fought and died for our country- That is part of the dialogue -- even though no such flag law exists that requires US citizens to stand- Soldiers don't die to protect some people's rights, but all people's rights- Including peoples right to kneel during the national anthem should one choose to do so to draw attention to a specific social injustice- The point hasn't gotten lost, but it's obvious people don't want to hear it -- just like they didn't want to hear it back in the 60's- The dynamic isn't much different, neither is the dialogue- There's no wrong message being spread- People are revealing how they feel and how they view the ongoing protests- The shaping and reshaping of our country is ongoing in an effort to find better ways- Some don't like the process of this reshaping, the conversation it brings about, the inconvenience of the result of partnering nationalism and sporting events and the opportunity to use such events to draw national attention to a particular social injustice-

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Now it's being used for political drama & publicity stunts, neither of which focuses on the intended message of social injustice. Our little micro-climate here on our board can be a ripple in change for better, I hope it is.  

Think global, start local

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6 hours ago, Mame925 said:

Now it's being used for political drama & publicity stunts, neither of which focuses on the intended message of social injustice. Our little micro-climate here on our board can be a ripple in change for better, I hope it is.  

Think global, start local

Can you provide examples of the drama and stunts? Was the Mike Pence incident one of them?

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And in other news, Trump, who called NFL players 'sons a ***ches', babbled through Evening Colours, not even knowing what they were.

The Commander In Chief didn't know what "Retreat" being played over loudspeakers at an Air National Guard hanger signified, and asked Sean Hannity if they were playing for him or Hannity. And then continued to talk through it. Commander. In. Chief.

I wonder if folks will be even remotely as angry w/Trump for his disrespect as they have been about the NFL players? And no, "He didn't know what it meant." isn't an excuse. COMMANDER. IN. CHIEF. There's no excuse for him NOT to know. If he didn't know any better, that also shows gross disrespect to the military he's supposed to be leading.

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22 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Can you provide examples of the drama and stunts? Was the Mike Pence incident one of them?

 

On 10/11/2017 at 2:45 PM, Mame925 said:

Except that these protests are lost in a mire of politics, half truths and publicity stunts. There are actually people out in the real world who think Mike Pence planned to spend the afternoon at an NFL game, but was so offended by the players taking a knee that he just couldn't stay any longer....Really? Swamp land in Arizona, people.

 

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Mame, I cannot quote your post- But aside from the Mike Pence stunt, what are the half truths and mire of politics that you mentioned the protest is lost in? It's not they aren't important, but they don't seem to overshadow the support and unity or have put a stop to it- Nothing has yet to do that, not booing, not the President's comments, not the NFL- It's a very quiet protest that's brought about a loud response- But it's still a quiet protest- 

 

 

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It is a quiet protest almost like the civil disobedience protests of the '60s were supposed to be...The half truths are prevalent throughout the media, an old story. I see the Trump admin trying to skew the focus away from the intent of the protest by any means possible. JMHO

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12 hours ago, Komorebi said:

 There's no wrong message being spread- People are revealing how they feel and how they view the ongoing protests-

By "wrong message," I meant some people are reacting as if the kneeling/sitting players are deliberately disrespecting the flag, etc. when, in fact, those players are trying to make a statement about social justice.

I can definitely see where refusal to stand can seem like "disrespect," etc. So I won't call it a "red herring." But, IMO, this concern clearly distracts many people from the original issue.

Edited by RoseRed135
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