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RoseRed135

Should grandparents have visitation rights to their grandchildren?

51 posts in this topic

I think just like a "normal" run of the mill person in public life, we (general members) tend to voice a complaint when we have a problem/issue with someone and not so readily to give a pat on the back when all is going well.

There are so many different forums on this website and even some of us "oldies" just click on the unread content button at the bottom of the page and don't pay too much attention to what forum the post is actually in.  For example this forums introduction says,

Grandparents without Grandchildren

This group is created for grandparents living without their grandchildren. Maybe you have been denied visitation, or maybe you are ill and your child wants to keep your grandchildren away from that reality. Whatever the reason, you suffer great loss and this group is intended for you to share with others in similar situations your pain, insights and frustrations. It's a place to get emotional or informational support or give it to others.  (What you might feel is opposition, someone else might feel is an insight.  Posting styles differ from member to member.)

 while the introduction to 

Mothers-in-Law Anonymous

Dish, vent or ask for advice about the mother-in-law and daughter-in-law relationship.

MILA is the most active forum on this site and has the most interaction.

The newbie advice given by our administrator in a welcome to all new members on site says:

Lurk before posting so you can get a feel of each forum and what is and is not acceptable there.  Our community does not consist of only grandmothers – we have moms/daughter in laws, a few grandfathers, and even a few husbands. With such a diverse community, your interactions on each subforum may vary.

There is a survey on the top right hand corner stating:

  1. 1. Are you a grandparent?                         763 voters

     
    • I'm a grandparent
            86.24%
    • I'm not a grandparent, but I am a parent (SIL/DIL
            12.19%
    • Neither -- just here to browse
              1.57%
    • So, yes we are a grandparents site.
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Edited by SueSTx
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My DsD & xDIL are "new age" style moms....that very often goes against my personal beliefs and knowledge of what works/worked. Now that the kids are a bit older, both 10yo have issues that could have been avoided had the moms taken a different attitude during the toddler years. 

I take a more straightforward approach with both GBs so our patterns of interaction are very different. All my AC know I'd never spank their child and that most things will be handled without a fuss. Fortunately, my AC have my back as I have theirs.

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On 11/1/2017 at 9:41 AM, pearlj said:

 I would not want a grandchild to be forced into the middle like this. I would give anything to have a relationship with my grandson BUT not under court order and against the parents wishes. Even if I don't agree with their reasons, still parents have a right to choose who their children have a relationship with.

sadly, I have to agree with this

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On 11/2/2017 at 2:47 PM, pearlj said:

We are estranged from our daughter and so her son is not allowed to have a relationship with us. We don't agree with it, and I feel so sorry for my grandson BUT it is what it is. 

may I ask what age your GS was when you lost contact with him?

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2 hours ago, AlfieG said:

may I ask what age your GS was when you lost contact with him?

I’ve never met him since he was born a few months ago .

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14 hours ago, pearlj said:

I’ve never met him since he was born a few months ago .

That's so sad, IMO. (((Hugs!)))

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 4:24 PM, NannieE said:

I think the biggest problem is control, everyone wants to control and the losers are the children.  Considering this is a Grandparent site it seems to be very anti Grandparents.

What about the wonderful things Grandparents do for their Adult Children and Grandchildren, the blame game is a live and well.

I've been thinking about this^^^. I know it may sometimes seem "anti Grandparents" to point out GP mistakes or support parents' right to keep their kids away from a GP. But, IMO, it can be helpful for GPs to see where they may have gone wrong, so that they can fix it - or where they might go wrong, so they can avoid it. No doubt, there are cases where there isn't much the GP can do or should do.* But in those cases where posters think there is/might be, it can be very supportive to let them know how.

Also, yes, of course, there are "wonderful things" GPs do. But, unfortunately, those don't generally come up when discussing problems. There are many posts and conversations on this site, however, that show of the great things GPs do for their AC and GC - from those about this/that GP making costumes for their GC (mostly in Club Newcomer or the General Gabbery, I think) all the way to those about GPs who, unfortunately, have ended up raising their GC (mostly in Grandparents Caring for Grandkids). But not all threads lend themselves to that kind of conversation.

*Based on what you've told us, elsewhere, Nannie, I think you're one of those GPs who can't really do much to change the situation and probably shouldn't. If I recall, correctly, DS is unhappy w/ your line of work, income level and "spiritual" personality. You can't be expected, IMO, to give up a job you love. You shouldn't be asked to seek a higher income, just to suit someone else' sense of ambition. And you certainly can't/shouldn't be expected to change your personality! But in many cases, as far as I've seen, there are behaviors the GPs can/should change to help fix the relationship w/ their AC.

Edited by RoseRed135

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On 11/15/2017 at 4:53 PM, SueSTx said:

 

There are so many different forums on this website and even some of us "oldies" just click on the unread content button at the bottom of the page and don't pay too much attention to what forum the post is actually in.  For example this forums introduction says,

Grandparents without Grandchildren

This group is created for grandparents living without their grandchildren. Maybe you have been denied visitation, or maybe you are ill and your child wants to keep your grandchildren away from that reality. Whatever the reason, you suffer great loss and this group is intended for you to share with others in similar situations your pain, insights and frustrations. It's a place to get emotional or informational support or give it to others.  (What you might feel is opposition, someone else might feel is an insight.  Posting styles differ from member to member.)

In addition to what Sue is saying here, I'd like to add that some time ago, the topic of GVR was tucked into this forum:

As a result, since not everyone agrees w/ GVR cases, there are bound to be some threads in here that are a little more contentious.

 

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8 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

That's so sad, IMO. (((Hugs!)))

Thanks RoseRed. I feel more sad for my grandson who will be deprived of loving grandparents and one day he will want to know why we were not a part of his life. I will have a box for him waiting when he is ready to see that we always loved him and thought of him.   In some ways it is eaiser that we never had a chance to bond with him. I think for grandparents and grandchildren who had established relationships it's a cruel act to cut everyone off from each other (barring the obvious and very good reasons that include abuse, etc).

Edited by pearlj

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46 minutes ago, pearlj said:

In some ways it is eaiser that we never had a chance to bond with him. I think for grandparents and grandchildren who had established relationships it's a cruel act to cut everyone off from each other (barring the obvious and very good reasons that include abuse, etc).

:cray:

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5 hours ago, pearlj said:

Thanks RoseRed. I feel more sad for my grandson who will be deprived of loving grandparents and one day he will want to know why we were not a part of his life. I will have a box for him waiting when he is ready to see that we always loved him and thought of him.   In some ways it is eaiser that we never had a chance to bond with him. I think for grandparents and grandchildren who had established relationships it's a cruel act to cut everyone off from each other (barring the obvious and very good reasons that include abuse, etc).

I get what you're saying here, Pearl. In a sense, it's fortunate for GS, also, that he never had a relationship w/ you b/c he won't find himself missing you in the near future and will probably enjoy his life as it is. No doubt, he will wonder, though, as he gets older, why your two aren't in hiw life, as you suggest. I think it's beautiful that you're ready to let him know you "always loved and thought of him."

Pure curiosity - how did you find out about him, given the estrangement?

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4 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

I get what you're saying here, Pearl. In a sense, it's fortunate for GS, also, that he never had a relationship w/ you b/c he won't find himself missing you in the near future and will probably enjoy his life as it is. No doubt, he will wonder, though, as he gets older, why your two aren't in hiw life, as you suggest. I think it's beautiful that you're ready to let him know you "always loved and thought of him."

Pure curiosity - how did you find out about him, given the estrangement?

Our son Keeps in touch with his sister and he let us know. He didn't want to keep it secret and felt we should know. 

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I plan on getting my GS a birthday card each b/day, photos, plus other things over the time. His mother left some of his favorite toys that I bought him, just because I bought them.

The idea of keeping these things in a special box is a great idea, thanks pearl :)

If my GS ever tries to track me down I would like him to know he was never forgotten, and always loved

Edited by AlfieG
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17 minutes ago, pearlj said:

Our son Keeps in touch with his sister and he let us know. He didn't want to keep it secret and felt we should know. 

My son keeps in touch with his sister also, but sadly because of that, he doesn't keep me up dated on anything

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19 minutes ago, pearlj said:

Our son Keeps in touch with his sister and he let us know. He didn't want to keep it secret and felt we should know. 

Thanks for answering my question, Pearl!

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A post in this thread has been hidden. The poster will find a PM under the Envelope icon in the upper right corner of the screen.

ETA: Actually, 2 posts in this thread have been deleted, one b/c it was posted in error and the other b/c it quoted the deleted post.

Edited by RoseRed135

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When it comes to a separation in unmarried parents and the mother is keeping the child from the father and paternal grandparents when all along they were always involved but when the relationship ended the mother aliantes the child and makes excuses all the time to prevent visits and phone contact it is not ok.

Yes parents make the decision ultimately but when a person will manipulate with a child to get what they want and then turn around and not allow contact when they do not get their way per say that is cruel!

In addition the mother has five other children with four other fathers and the same behavior with the other children's paternal families. Sometimes yes the mother can be cruel!

Grandparents are important and a child having both parents is important and sadly some mothers are so ill minded  and selfish they can not see  the best interests of the children. The sad thing is six inocent children crave family and are intentionally kept away and five families are heartbroken. Not to mention the mother does not have a close relationship with her own family. It is almost like she punishes her children from families that want to involved. Once a breakup occurs she moves on to the next and plays games with the separated fathers and paternal family. Her answer is if he left then I shouldn't have to share. They leave because she is toxic! This is a time when yes grandparents should have rights!!! 

I am a parent and I would never dream of this behavior. I personally had wonderful relationships with my grandparents who not only showed me love affection attention but routine and discipline as well.

i truely feel for the children and it's hard to sit and watch the game she wants you to play. And because you do not play the other end of the board and have to wait for court dates she continues to hurt others and the children. 

Its been a very long three months and in a handful of successful attempts the children ask when they can come over it breaks my heart to say hopefully soon we will have to ask momma. All conversations are on speaker and her response is always not today maybe another day. 

And of course the two times visits were ok at her house was when she was in a bind with a sitter so that was ok and of course jumped on the opportunity.

Sadly giving in to her manipulative ways but thrilled to have time with the children. As the children have been close with us for four years and our biological granbaby since birth. She is 3.

Again in this case I would say yes and too bad she throws in our face "just so you know you have no rights". So sometimes people manipulate and use children as pawns to hurt others but really are destroying their babies in the process.

I'm a firm believer that this should be decided on a case by case as all custody cases should be as well. Established relationships should be maintained and if a child's parents separate the child should have a right to see the other parent and the family as well unless of course doing so would harm the child.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I absolutely agree that in cases of separation, the child should have access to the non custodial parent, unless the parent is deemed unfit.

And, it is the non custodial parent's responsibility at that point, to ensure that the child sees his/her extended family.

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15 hours ago, Memereof6 said:

When it comes to a separation in unmarried parents and the mother is keeping the child from the father and paternal grandparents when all along they were always involved but when the relationship ended the mother aliantes the child and makes excuses all the time to prevent visits and phone contact it is not ok.

Yes parents make the decision ultimately but when a person will manipulate with a child to get what they want and then turn around and not allow contact when they do not get their way per say that is cruel!

In addition the mother has five other children with four other fathers and the same behavior with the other children's paternal families. Sometimes yes the mother can be cruel!

Grandparents are important and a child having both parents is important and sadly some mothers are so ill minded  and selfish they can not see  the best interests of the children. The sad thing is six inocent children crave family and are intentionally kept away and five families are heartbroken. Not to mention the mother does not have a close relationship with her own family. It is almost like she punishes her children from families that want to involved. Once a breakup occurs she moves on to the next and plays games with the separated fathers and paternal family. Her answer is if he left then I shouldn't have to share. They leave because she is toxic! This is a time when yes grandparents should have rights!!! 

I am a parent and I would never dream of this behavior. I personally had wonderful relationships with my grandparents who not only showed me love affection attention but routine and discipline as well.

i truely feel for the children and it's hard to sit and watch the game she wants you to play. And because you do not play the other end of the board and have to wait for court dates she continues to hurt others and the children. 

Its been a very long three months and in a handful of successful attempts the children ask when they can come over it breaks my heart to say hopefully soon we will have to ask momma. All conversations are on speaker and her response is always not today maybe another day. 

And of course the two times visits were ok at her house was when she was in a bind with a sitter so that was ok and of course jumped on the opportunity.

Sadly giving in to her manipulative ways but thrilled to have time with the children. As the children have been close with us for four years and our biological granbaby since birth. She is 3.

Again in this case I would say yes and too bad she throws in our face "just so you know you have no rights". So sometimes people manipulate and use children as pawns to hurt others but really are destroying their babies in the process.

I'm a firm believer that this should be decided on a case by case as all custody cases should be as well. Established relationships should be maintained and if a child's parents separate the child should have a right to see the other parent and the family as well unless of course doing so would harm the child.

 

Welcome Memereof6! Sorry you found us under such frustrating circumstances, but glad you are here!

It must be very painful to have been distanced from your GC in this way, just b/c the parents split up. (((Hugs!)))

It appears you have embraced the other children in the scenario as if they were your own. Kudos! But I realize that means you've been pushed away from 6 kids that you care about. Again, I'm so sorry.

If it's any comfort, this is not unusual. When parents separate, often, unfortunately, other family members are affected as well. And that's true whether it's a matter of spite, as it seems to be in this case, or just a matter of logistics.

Also, even if the mom's relationship w/ her own FOO (family of origin) isn't close, chances are the kids do spend some time w/ them (maybe not, of course). And they do see you when you babysit. So, again, if it's any comfort, they may not be "craving family" as much as you fear.

The young mother in this situation sounds very unstable, at least where relationships are concerned. I hope she's a good mother in other ways.

I have to agree w/ Imp and say that, IMO, the main focus needs to be on the father's getting visitation. More specifically, in your case, that means DS (dear son). Has he thought about going through the courts? If he could establish visitation legally, hopefully, he could/wouldl share some of his visitation time w/ you. I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

Granted, this might only get him/you access to your bio GC. IDK if he could/would sue successfully for visitation w/ the other kids.

As for the babysitting, I don't blame you. It's an opportunity for you and the kids to enjoy each other. IMO, it's a win-win-win, no matter how it comes about. I just wish it were more consistent. Of course, if DS decides to go the court route, the mom may be advised to avoid all contact w/ his/your family during the case (I'm not sure of that). But, IMO, it would be worth it for the long-range purposes. (Then again, I'm no legal expert, and also, I know court cases can be expensive.)

Edited by RoseRed135

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BTW, have you tried asking in advance if the kids can visit on this/that day, instead of waiting  till the children spring the request? W/ 5 dads and  5 families, that's a lot of scheduling for the mom.(I realize she bears a lot of the responsibility for the situation.) Perhaps advance planning would make it easier?

Edited by RoseRed135
to correct numbers and add a thought

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Court date is 12/28. So in the meantime she is suppose to communicate with DS so he can visit. It's a game and documentation supports her giving him a run around. ( too cold too busy not her responsibility to call back she has 5 other kids she's a single mom etc). It is frustrating and all of her children want to visit. Bottom line it's a control tactic and our family has 100 % been there for her and her children since day 1. She is 32 my son is 23. He supported and helped her take care of 6 children five which were not his. She has issues and no insight and it's just sad and frustrating.  I've personally point out her good qualities and lift her up when she degrades herself. I sometimes wonder if she even realizes what she is doing. She is very black and white her way is the only way and she does not compromise ever. She has played games with other fathers and thinks it's funny. Example being telling me the father of her first child wanted to pick her up so she allowed it and then looked at me and stated I probably shouldn't have it's not his parenting time. Then called the police and stated he kidnapped her. That is sick and not ok. Eventually the father ended up released but the child witnessed a father getting arrested. The mother told the child he kidnapped her. When in fact she said it was ok. A couple months later that father was awarded more time. Then she stopped letting the child go against court order because she accused the father of kissing another child. Now more time away from the child and the child away from the father. Of course there was an investigation and it was false accusations. The child is again visiting the father. The mother is sick. That is not ok. This is one example and the sad thing is time was lost with visitation, a child was a witness to a false arrest (kidnapping accusation) and then aware of the mothers false accusation of kissing another child. And the other child had to be investigated which during that time a child and parent were not able to visit.

This mother has also claimed her other four children have been touched inappropriately as well.

This mother has a pattern and I see a lifelong road of constant problems with her. I'm a patient person but a line has to be drawn with her. She claims she's Christian and loves to tell people she is. She loves to play the victim and loves to play the I don't have time card because she has six children. She has six children with 5 fathers in a 8 year span. The father of her second child is also the father of her fifth child. 

Its a shame that my son ever was involved with her and again a blessing as six wonderful children have been brought into our lives. We all love and miss them so much. 

Again it's heartbreaking and gut wrenching and I pray she gets help. She needs to as six children rely on her. 

I'm typically a private person who can handle things and I am a licensed medical professional with psychological knowledge and this is tough because we should cut her out of our life completely but we will not give up on our granddaughter and her siblings. So in order to have any sort of relationship with our granddaughter we have to keep mom in our life too. 

I will address the courts with a letter recommendation of direct days and times to be specific as the mediator informed her the mother she cannot keep the child away and has to communicate reasonably and with her there is no communication and a thousand excuses. ( with our son) us too but we have no rights as they no longer exists. However I've been informed by an attorney if we can prove there has been an established emotional bond and if not seeing the grandparents can cause a loss to the child there are some rights. But first and most important is time with her father. Time he has been denied over and over again because in her words she suddenly has parenting concerns but wants him back in the same breath states if he comes back he can see her everyday it's not fair to share her and for her to be away from her siblings half the time. Lord help us.  Thank you for your advice and I will welcome all others to chime in and no worries I can take constructive criticism as well. In a situation like this it is difficult to see outside the box as we are emotionally attached. Thank you in advance for your feedback. 

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Thank you, Memere for filling us in further! IMO, you have a beautiful attitude, overall, including about advice given here. Of course, you get frustrated w/ the situation you're in!No doubt, it's a difficult one.

I'm glad DS has a court date. Unfortunately, IDK if you, DH (dear husband) and he are going to get much cooperation until the court makes a decision. And that, as I'm sure you know, can drag on for a while. Plus, apparently, the mom isn't averse to "playing games," defying court orders and making false accusations (I hope she doesn't do this to you or DS). Awful! But, hopefully, if/when DS is awarded court-ordered visitation, things will become a bit more orderly for you and yours.

It seems to me there's a mix here of the bizarre (the "kidnapping" accusation) and the reasonable. And I think it would actually be easier on you if you tried to separate the two in your mind. I have to admit, for example, that  I don't see ," But I have 6 children" as necessarily just an "excuse." Since, from what you tell us, they must range in age from 3 (your bio GD) to 11 (the oldest child), which means that, besides different dads and FOOs clamoring for time w/ the kids, there are probably various kinds of extracurricular activities, play dates, etc - for 6 different children - that have to be scheduled in. Hopefully, this will get easier once DS has come definite visitation time established.

Also, I'm afraid that, yes, sometimes - maybe often - a child (your GD, for example) - may be separated from one or more of their other siblings for a while. Not every dad may be as ready to embrace all the kids as your DS is (kudos to him!). And what if, say,  2 dads each want to see their own child on the same day? That means 2 kids go off, separately from each other and the other 4. It may seem "unfair," but this is the situation that the mother - and to some extent, the dads - have set up. Not to mention that, given the spread in their ages, the kids are bound to be separated sometimes, anyhow (due to different kinds of activities, friends, etc.) This, IMO, is a reality you and yours may just have to accept.

I'm aware that in some states GPs may be awarded visitation if they can prove a strong bond w/ the child. But again, IDK if that would apply to all the kids or just your bio GC. If it's the latter, that may be another reality you'll have to accept. But bravo to you for understanding that the focus right now needs to be on DS' case!

But the mother does sound "sick" to me.Her false accusations, etc. are, obviously, not acceptable. And I agree w/ you they could, in some cases, be damaging to the children (as in seeing that father get arrested). In fact, I'm wondering why the authorities didn't investigate her, at some point, after seeing the games she plays. I guess it doesn't work that way. I feel for those children, and, again, I hope that she's a reasonably good mother in day-to-day life.

All 6 kids will be in my thoughts and prayers (if that's ok). And you, DH and DS, as well...

 

Edited by RoseRed135
to add a few thoughts
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@Memereof6welcome, of course....I am so sorry you are dealing with such a mess of a GD mom....

Frankly, I'd talk to all 5 fathers and suggest they ALL file for custody to protect those kids from their mother. If only half of what you've described is accurate, she shouldn't have any kids.

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I'm not sure why she has not been investigated but that is a question for the attorney as one would think she should have. I too fear that DS or someone in our family will be accused next. It's sad to feel that way but the pattern suggests so.  Whenever a parent or in case of her 3rd child a praternal GP, tries to seek more visitation an accusation happens. Her 3rd childs father had passed away.  In that case it was grandmas boyfriend who touched the child. ( not sure how that investigation resulted) and I definitely do not bring the topic up in conversation. In addition that grandmother was seeking grandparent visitation but our state does not recognize grandparents rights as a law. But was seeking more time as her son was deceased and she was unable to see her granddaughter through him. The father of her 4th child is completely out of the picture with no contact/no support. But the father of her 2nd and 5th child has treated the child as his. And that father rarely sees or pays support. The oldest child's father has been pushing for full custody for a couple years now. He was the best dad according to mom until he filed for full custody then he became a monster. He has always been in the picture for visiting and pays support. I've met him once and he was very polite. He was picking up his child for the weekend.

it seems as if the dads have interest or the dads families have interest in visiting with the child it's almost like she is threatened that these people want to keep a relationship going with the child. One would think that a mother would want this for her child. One would think she would encourage it. Of course unless the child is at harm. But real harm. She knows how to use what the courts look at to her advantage as well. Early on she told me so in her own words. I thank you for the prayers and unfortunately we will have no rights to the other 5 children but we will keep praying that she will change her mind. 

I believe strongly that a child needs a mom and a dad. I believe in family relationships. Family to me is very important. I happen to come from a close family and marry into a close family. I'm pretty lucky. I understand some people do not have close family members or come from broken homes or blended families. I've seen that when couples split and coparent the child does very well. Unfortunately I do not see this working with the mother because she refuses to communicate and we all know communication is the key! It's huge in life period.

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22 hours ago, Memereof6 said:

I'm not sure why she has not been investigated but that is a question for the attorney as one would think she should have. I too fear that DS or someone in our family will be accused next. It's sad to feel that way but the pattern suggests so.  Whenever a parent or in case of her 3rd child a praternal GP, tries to seek more visitation an accusation happens. I take it you mean if they seek visitation through the courts. Have I got that right? Her 3rd childs father had passed away.  In that case it was grandmas boyfriend who touched the child. ( not sure how that investigation resulted) and I definitely do not bring the topic up in conversation. Don't blame you! I wouldn't either.  In addition that grandmother was seeking grandparent visitation but our state does not recognize grandparents rights as a law. But was seeking more time as her son was deceased and she was unable to see her granddaughter through him

I'm a little confused here^^^^. If she was "seeking more time," that sounds as if she was getting some visitation. Is that correct? B/c I've yet to hear of any court awarding a GP additional time if they are already being allowed visits, no matter how few and far between. Regardless, I hope the mom didn't manufacture the allegation against the GM's BF just b/c GM was seeking (more) visitation.

The father of her 4th child is completely out of the picture with no contact/no support. But the father of her 2nd and 5th child has treated the child as his. And that father rarely sees or pays support. The oldest child's father has been pushing for full custody for a couple years now. He was the best dad according to mom until he filed for full custody then he became a monster. He has always been in the picture for visiting and pays support. I've met him once and he was very polite. He was picking up his child for the weekend.

it seems as if the dads have interest or the dads families have interest in visiting with the child it's almost like she is threatened that these people want to keep a relationship going with the child. One would think that a mother would want this for her child. One would think she would encourage it. Yes, I would think so, too. My only reservation about it is that I can see where the scheduling could be a nightmare. Especially if she wants to make sure that there are some days that she and the kids are all at home together. But, of course, IDK if this apparently unstable woman even thinks like that. Of course unless the child is at harm. But real harm. She knows how to use what the courts look at to her advantage as well. Early on she told me so in her own words. I thank you for the prayers - You're very welcome - and unfortunately we will have no rights to the other 5 children but we will keep praying that she will change her mind. I'm sorry about the other 5, but I'm glad you and DH realistic about it.

I believe strongly that a child needs a mom and a dad. I believe in family relationships. Family to me is very important. I happen to come from a close family and marry into a close family. I'm pretty lucky. I understand some people do not have close family members or come from broken homes or blended families. I've seen that when couples split and coparent the child does very well. Unfortunately I do not see this working with the mother because she refuses to communicate and we all know communication is the key! It's huge in life period.

It's all very sad, I agree. I just hope that DS' case is successful, and that the mom doesn't come up w/ any false accusations to try to derail it.  If I understand correctly, his is a visitation case. Has he thought about custody?

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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