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RoseRed135

And then there's the ME TOO Movement - triggers

54 posts in this topic

As some of you may know, there's now something called the "ME TOO movement" in reaction, i guess, to the allegations against Harvey Weinstein.. For those who don't know, It's a movement in which women post "ME TOO" on social media if they have also been sexually harassed or assaulted at any time in their lives. The idea, as i understand it, is to show how wide the scope of the problem is. I hear that it has gone viral on Twitter (I'm not on Tiwitter, so IDK firsthand), but I've only seen 2 women do it on FB (might depend on your - general - group of friends, of course).

Thoughts?

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I have never been harassed but I read a lot of news stories about it and it is common to not come forward for many reasons. To have people know how often this happens and that they are not alone is a good thing, I had not heard of this movement but I will log into twitter and check it out. 

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I feel there are a lot of "Me too's" out there.  It's about time this comes to the front of folks minds.

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My reading articles about ME TOO caused me to think women were pointing out the widespread nature of ANY sort of unwanted touching, groping, assault, rape. I don't know any women who have not been subjected to some man's bad actions at some time in their life.

Myself: ME TOO,   ODD: ME TOO,   YDD: ME TOO,   Four Sisters: ME TOO,   Mom: ME TOO

Edited by JanelleK
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Checked out twitter. One guy tweeted for his wife who is not on twitter. An old boyfriend hit her when she refused to have sex with him. @JanelleK If your relatives have not tweeted you might consider asking if you could tweet for them. This deserves all the attention it can get.

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If just being "harassed" enters girls/ladies in the ME TOO group. I'm, sure that will include nearly 100%.  How many of us have been whistled at, verbally propositioned, grabbed when in no position to do anything about it.  This isn't even accounting any harassment on the job.

If one out of six experienced a rape or an attempt...how many more have been felt up?  Boys in school even "pop" bras and think it is funny.

Edited by SueSTx
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I thought ME TOO included any and all unsolicited conduct directed at you/me/anyone (general) -- regardless of sex / gender/s- If it does, the list is infinite ..

Do you know what's sad? Many of us might have forgotten just how many times it has happened over the course of our lives because it was socially accepted-

Maybe people will watch "even more" porn in the future as people move towards practicing hypervigilance-

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Twitter is asking men to respond with #Ihearyou.

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7 minutes ago, SueSTx said:

If just being "harassed" enters girls/ladies in the ME TOO group. I'm, sure that will include nearly 100%.  How many of us have been whistled at, verbally propositioned, grabbed when in no position to do anything about it.  This isn't even accounting any harassment on the job.

If one out of six experienced a rape or an attempt...how many more have been felt up?  Boys in school even "pop" bras and think it is funny.

That's the point, females get harassed, by males - by unwanted groping, touch, rape, whistling, propositioning, grabbing - you name it. But it's not "just being harassed" - that all IS unwanted bad action forced by males onto females.

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I'm not making light of harassment but saying, "That if one out of six have been raped/attempted raped...there must be close to 100% have been harassed.  This is not acceptable.  I remember as a young 20's lady telling a young man that if he ever thought of grabbing me again he would get my knee in his crotch.  Why are men allowed to get away with this?  He was not a boyfriend, just an acquaintance.

I don't really feel this is "socially accepted" anymore...but it is socially ignored.  

I don't think men who have never done this grabbing really realize how many women are actually being grabbed.

I used to wait tables in my younger years and dirty ole men thought it was cute to reach out and pat the waitress butt and she passed by.  These men were old enough to be my grandfather and the town leaders.   This was sick and why I moved to the kitchen and started cooking.  No one should ever be put in this position.

Some of these little girls are just kinders etc.  Where do these little boys learn this junk?

 

Edited by SueSTx

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5 hours ago, SueSTx said:

Graphic illustrating the statistic that 1 in every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).

Wow.

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5 hours ago, JanelleK said:

My reading articles about ME TOO caused me to think women were pointing out the widespread nature of ANY sort of unwanted touching, groping, assault, rape.

This^^^^ exactly.

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Honestly, the 1/6 is low. That's *reported*. It's pretty accepted that the unreported events outnumber the reported ones.

And, #MeToo.

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5 hours ago, Komorebi said:

I thought ME TOO included any and all unsolicited conduct directed at you/me/anyone (general) -- regardless of sex / gender/s- If it does, the list is infinite ..

Do you know what's sad? Many of us might have forgotten just how many times it has happened over the course of our lives because it was socially accepted-

Maybe people will watch "even more" porn in the future as people move towards practicing hypervigilance-

Hmmm... I should have worded my OP better, perhaps. As far as I know, it applies to any unwanted touch, comments, etc. But, then again, some people see those as "harassment."

I've only seen it mentioned in reference to women & girls. But I've been thinking that yes, some men & boys have been the recipients of unwanted touch and attention, too.

As far as "forgetting" is concerned, I recall, as a young woman, being advised by magazines, etc. never to mention catcalls or inappropriate touch to other people (the exception being that you were to tell your DH/SO if someone made advances to you). The idea being promoted was that you (general women) wanted to act as if you were used to such attention, and if you were used to it, you would just take it in stride/not talk about it. If you talked about it, apparently, it suggested that you didn't usually attract male attention, and, you didn't want to - gasp! - give that impression.

I admit, I bought into it at the time. I'm sure a lot of young women did. But now I'm thinking... Way to keep women silent!

Edited by RoseRed135

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2 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hmmm... I should have worded my OP better, perhaps. As far as I know, it applies to any unwanted touch, comments, etc. But, then again, some people see those as "harassment." You worded it well: touch, harassment, comments, groping, rape, assault - ALL of that is unwanted and horrible.

I've only seen it mentioned in reference to women & girls. But I've been thinking that yes, some men & boys have been the recipients of unwanted touch and attention, too. Naturally, but that's not what this is about, according to my reading.

NOPE. There is not any need to make this particular movement about men.

Men run the world (remember the ultimate glass ceiling is still there, 45 male POTUS), pity sakes, I think women can have ONE movement about women that nobody else takes over for their own reasons.

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1 hour ago, JanelleK said:

NOPE. There is not any need to make this particular movement about men.

Men run the world (remember the ultimate glass ceiling is still there, 45 male POTUS), pity sakes, I think women can have ONE movement about women that nobody else takes over for their own reasons.

I've noticed that, on social media. "Not ALL men!" "I don't do it!" "Men get assaulted too!" on and on and on. it's not that those aren't valid statements, but freaking heck, when "Oh, it's just locker room talk!" is considered a viable excuse, things need to freaking change. They just do.

I find that the defensiveness, the attempt to shift the focus, is nothing more than attempts to invalidate, and to dilute the conversation. Some folks feel guilty, and can't handle the thought that they, either by action or inaction, have contributed to sexual harassment or assault.

"Oh, he's just awkward."

"He finds you attractive, you should be flattered!"

"Well, you must've sent mixed signals."

"What were you wearing?"

"Were you drinking?"

"Why where you there?"

"Well, you're attractive, you can't really blame him!"

"You're just being sensitive."

"Is it that time of the month? You're overemotional."

"Calm down."

Just examples of things ppl say that attempt to minimize, if not outright defend sexual harassment.

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4 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hmmm... I should have worded my OP better, perhaps. As far as I know, it applies to any unwanted touch, comments, etc. But, then again, some people see those as "harassment."

I've only seen it mentioned in reference to women & girls. But I've been thinking that yes, some men & boys have been the recipients of unwanted touch and attention, too.

As far as "forgetting" is concerned, I recall, as a young woman, being advised by magazines, etc. never to mention catcalls or inappropriate touch to other people (the exception being that you were to tell your DH/SO if someone made advances to you). The idea being promoted was that you (general women) wanted to act as if you were used to such attention, and if you were used to it, you would just take it in stride/not talk about it. If you talked about it, apparently, it suggested that you didn't usually attract male attention, and, you didn't want to - gasp! - give that impression.

I admit, I bought into it at the time. I'm sure a lot of young women did. But now I'm thinking... Way to keep women silent!

Yes, the message was to take it in stride- Even little girls who had their pigtails pulled by boys were told the boy pulled her hair because he liked her-

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If women ever do run the world? I hope it wont be out of spite- But its sounding like that might be the motivating factor-

Make it as much about women as anyone wishes- Every day young boys are sexually molested, sodomized amd taken advantage of in cruel and unusual ways by complete strangers and those they trust such as coaches, family members, mentors and Catholic priests- 

Any woman willing to look into the eyes of the opposite sex who have been subjected to such abuse and say, sorry, this isnt about you? Two words: serious issues-

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33 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

If women ever do run the world? I hope it wont be out of spite- But its sounding like that might be the motivating factor-

Make it as much about women as anyone wishes- Every day young boys are sexually molested, sodomized amd taken advantage of in cruel and unusual ways by complete strangers and those they trust such as coaches, family members, mentors and Catholic priests- 

Any woman willing to look into the eyes of the opposite sex who have been subjected to such abuse and say, sorry, this isnt about you? Two words: serious issues-

Perhaps you haven't been reading some of the stuff I'm reading.

When someone says, "Not all men!" and uses that as an attempt to make light of, or dismiss the issues women face, that's a problem.

When someone says, "It happens to men too!" as a way to try and shame women for speaking out, it's a problem.

Nobody's saying that it doesn't happen to men. What IS being said is that it happens, statistically, in staggering numbers to women. What IS being said is that if you're looking to distract from that very real issue, you're a part of the problem.

Yes, males, be they boys or men, endure sexual assault and harassment. That's not in question. But when ppl bring it up as a rebuttal, an arguing point, they're not contributing to the discussion, they're seeking to derail it.

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1 hour ago, ImpishMom said:

Perhaps you haven't been reading some of the stuff I'm reading.

When someone says, "Not all men!" and uses that as an attempt to make light of, or dismiss the issues women face, that's a problem.

When someone says, "It happens to men too!" as a way to try and shame women for speaking out, it's a problem.

Nobody's saying that it doesn't happen to men. What IS being said is that it happens, statistically, in staggering numbers to women. What IS being said is that if you're looking to distract from that very real issue, you're a part of the problem.

Yes, males, be they boys or men, endure sexual assault and harassment. That's not in question. But when ppl bring it up as a rebuttal, an arguing point, they're not contributing to the discussion, they're seeking to derail it.

THIS ^^ The Me too movement is not about men.

Sunday, in response to scandal of disgraced Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein, who is accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, actress Alyssa Milano wrote, “If all women who have been sexually harassed or assaulted wrote ‘Me too’ as a status, we might give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem.

ETA: Me too (and likely most women can say Me too)

 

 
Edited by JanelleK
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Is it truly about spotlighting the staggaring numbers of women who've been sexually mistreated? Not according to the full scope of the ongoing discussion being carried out predominantly by women about their sexual experiences but also the prevailing issue of inequality- One can dream of having an exclusive discussion without rebuttal-But when people choose to exclude while at the same time discuss inequality and sexual mistreatment experienced by every gender, MeToo begins to look like a step backwards- Its an excellent discussion, dont get me wrong- But it goes beyond shedding light on a staggaring number of women- Nothing the matter with that, just like theres nothing the matter with absorbing all who have been sexually mistreated if people truly wish to reveal a staggaring percentage-

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Certainly theres a considerable difference between suspecting most women experienced similar and women all over the globe saying so in unison loud and clear- But the discussions taking place as a result of the unity arent restricted to number or gender- Its already organically spreading- So let it-

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

Is it truly about spotlighting the staggaring numbers of women who've been sexually mistreated? Not according to the full scope of the ongoing discussion being carried out predominantly by women about their sexual experiences but also the prevailing issue of inequality- One can dream of having an exclusive discussion without rebuttal-But when people choose to exclude while at the same time discuss inequality and sexual mistreatment experienced by every gender, MeToo begins to look like a step backwards- Its an excellent discussion, dont get me wrong- But it goes beyond shedding light on a staggaring number of women- Nothing the matter with that, just like theres nothing the matter with absorbing all who have been sexually mistreated if people truly wish to reveal a staggaring percentage-

Or, perhaps one of the things happening is that women are saying, "We're talking about women right now." What is so wrong about saying, "Not right now."? Nobody's saying that men aren't ever sexually harassed or assaulted. They're simply saying, "We're talking about women right now."

Is that wrong? Is it *really* wrong for victims of sexual harassment to want to have a discussion with others that share the same boat?

A college professor drew a line on a chalkboard. Put a male symbol on one side, female symbol on the other. Then asks students, "Men, what do you do to avoid being sexually assaulted?" The answer? Not on our radar. We don't think about it. Women, what do you do? And the responses were vast. We don't park in unlighted areas. We hold our keys as a weapon. We ask for others to walk us places. We keep an eye on our drinks. We don't get drunk. And on, and on, and on.

And THAT is an important aspect of the conversation, and, quite frankly, not one that the average man can relate to. Every single woman I know has a mental checklist of things she does, or doesn't do, to avoid sexual assault. Men do not.

When we were first married, I had to explain to my husband why I wouldn't go to the 7/11 at 10pm. As a man, it genuinely never dawned on him that a woman has a mental checklist for safety every freaking time she leaves the house at night. But we do. And that is our reality. 

And it's just simply not one shared by men.

Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them. And that's one of the very basic, but very real differences in our society.

"It's just locker room talk!" - Trump's defence when caught on a hot mike, bragging about grabbing women by their genitals.

"Sexual predator!" - women who've had men like Trump, someone in a position of power/authority/trust/financial impact who've been grabbed.

Unless and until such 'talk' can be agreed upon, we're not going to get anywhere with sexual harassment, let alone sexual assault. Until a man bragging about grabbing women by the genitals can be identified as being disgusting, sexual harassment/assault, how the heck can anything else be done? Until a guy hearing a man brag about such a thing calls him out as a disgusting pig, and a predator, rather than laughing and nodding, nothing is going to change. 

And muddying the waters by criticizing victims for who they choose to have the conversation with only increases the issues. Perhaps listening to what's being said, vs criticizing it for the way it's said, would be a place to begin.

It's not that men aren't assaulted, and don't deserve a conversation. It's that this particular conversation was started by a woman, for women. And, ftr, any man I've seen say, "Me too." has been included, told, 'I believe you.' and supported. I've yet to see anyone be told, "We're not talking to you.".

However, I've also seen men saying, "I don't assault women!" "Why is this trending?" "There's no way all these women have been harassed/assaulted. They're all just jumping on the bandwagon!" and other nasty crap.

And it's people like that who have no place in the conversation.

ETA: if you want, google Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox quotes if you want to read about the professor's quote in it's entirety.

Edited by ImpishMom

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I'm not sure why we're talking about this in terms of "rebuttal." If, say, a man who has been assaulted decides to tweet/post "ME TOO," does that necessarily mean he's arguing? Isn't it possible he's simply saying, in effect, "Yes, this is awful, and I know b/c it has happened to me, too, even though I'm a guy?"

I haven't seen/heard of any man actually doing that.  But if they did, IDK if we could actually call that "rebuttal."

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