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Mryan33880

Grandchild cuts off grandparent

45 posts in this topic

My daughter says I should apologize to me grandson for "calling him a liar".

He came to my house when we weren't home and took some items to use on his vacation without asking. We returned to prepare for our vacation. I looked for my life jacket which was no longer there. I got a hold of him a few days later and asked if he had taken it and he said no ask his sister. A couple of weeks later I found it in my hallway. My husband said grandson left it when he came to borrow a movie. (Just put it down & didn't say anything to me) I didn't notice at the time. When he came again to use my printer I asked him about leaving the jacket without saying anything. I asked why he had said he didn't have it. He said he didn't remember that he had taken it. I asked questions because what he was saying didn't add up. At one point I was upset and he got mad & walked out. He texted that he left because I raised my voice. He said that I had a point about the life jacket but because I had raised my voice it didn't matter what he had done wrong. I wasn't ******** allowed to do that EVER if I wanted a relationship with him. Wouldn't matter if I was the Pope. If I yell he won't have anything to do with me because I disrespected him. I guess he's allowed to disrespect me by taking my things and not admitting to it and cussing at me. Now daughter says I should apologize to him for calling him a liar. 

I think he's finding an excuse to get away with bad behavior. I feel she thinks he should get a pass because he's my grandson & I should "love him no matter what". I live my dog but I'm not going to let him bite me.

What do you think

Edited by SueSTx

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Welcome Mryan.  I'm sorry you found us under such upsetting circumstances.

I have moved your post to a more appropriate forum, but you will need to amass 10 responses before you can open another thread.

 

Edited by SueSTx
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How old is this grandson you are upset with?  Is this the only time he has stormed out upset with you?  Does your family have a policy of taking items without asking?

It seems to me that he is mostly upset with your tone of voice than being called a liar.  He knows he took the item and then said he didn't have it even if he forgot he took it initially.  

Maybe you both should apologize to each other.

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Hmmm... I agree w/ Sue that GS seems to be more upset w/ your tone of voice than your calling him a liar. In fact, I don't see where you actually did call him a liar. You say you asked questions when he told you he "didn't remember he had taken" the life jacket, but you don't say you called him any names.

Granted, maybe he felt that by continuing to question him, you were implying he was a liar. Or maybe that's DD's interpretation since she's the one who raised that issue w/ you.

I'm wondering why you didn't simply accept his explanation that he forgot. It's possible, IMO. Has he lied to you before?

Regardless, maybe he did lie about this. But he returned the life jacket and gave you an explanation. Even if you didn't believe him, why question him further as long as you had the jacket back? Did you feel the need to know for sure whether her lied or not? Or to get him to confess it?

He said that I had a point about the life jacket but because I had raised my voice it didn't matter what he had done wrong. I wasn't ******** allowed to do that EVER if I wanted a relationship with him.

This ^^^^ sounds to me as if one of 2 things is going on - he's either deeply hurt b/c he told you the truth and you didn't believe him - or very guilty b/c he did lie, after all. Either way, perhaps if you apologize to him for yelling - and for suggesting he was lying (if you did) - then maybe, he'll follow your example and apologize for lying (if he did) and for cursing. If it's not ok for him to take things from your home w/o asking first, then, hopefully, he'll apologize for that, too. But chances are, he's not sure how to get past this. So, if you can bring yourself to do it, you may need to make the first move. (I realize you may need some time to cool down first though.

So sorry you're dealing w/ this issue. But glad you brought your concerns to us. :)

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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He's 20.  I guess I was upset that he took it, said he didn't, brought it back saying nothing (evidently hoping I wouldn't notice), then got mad cause I was upset, told me to NEVER raise my voice if I wanted a relationship with him, basicly told me to F off, then told his mom I called him a liar. I just felt giving him a pass on all of this was giving an adult permission to have a temper tantrum like a 2 year old. And as far as D is concerned he should be able to act this way because he is my GS. BTW he will actually turn 20 on his bday Sat and the family is not invited cause I haven't apologized. ( this happened 2 months ago & not a peep or care from him in all thas time.

Edited by Mryan33880

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21 minutes ago, Mryan33880 said:

He's 20.  I guess I was upset that he took it, said he didn't, brought it back saying nothing (evidently hoping I wouldn't notice), then got mad cause I was upset, told me to NEVER raise my voice if I wanted a relationship with him, basicly told me to F off, then told his mom I called him a liar. I just felt giving him a pass on all of this was giving an adult permission to have a temper tantrum like a 2 year old. And as far as D is concerned he should be able to act this way because he is my GS. BTW he will actually turn 20 on his bday Sat and the family is not invited cause I haven't apologized. ( this happened 2 months ago & not a peep or care from him in all this time)

Ouch! So first GS get angry b/c you yelled and then he told D he was mad b/c you "called him a liar." Sounds like he was either truly offended on more than one level -  or looking for a reason to be. Granted, D probably has little/no control over his behavior since he's an adult. But her "it's ok b/c he's your GS" attitude isn't helping... sigh...

Also, sounds like you're very upset w/ him - and D - right now. And I don't blame you! I know it has been 2 months but it definitely seems to me like you need more time to cool off. Perhaps they do, too. Sorry about the birthday. It's sad, I know. But, maybe both "sides" need some space from each other for a while. (((Hugs!)))

ETA: Is this an isolated episode or have there been issues between you and him in the past?

Edited by RoseRed135

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Thank you.

Think he wasn't happy that I also had asked why it had taken him weeks to return it after his trip. He had gotten back from his vacation a couple of days after I had asked about the jacket & he had to have known when he unloaded the back of his truck that he had it. I also told him that I expected that if he borrows something he should return it in the same condition as when he took it. The jacket was returned dirty & with black grease stains on it. So must have just stuffed it in the bed of his work truck & left it there a while. 

I guess basically the conversation wasn't going his way & he didn't want to deal with it. 

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I'm so sorry he didn't take better care of something he had borrowed from you...but...he is soon to be 20 and no longer a child.  It takes kids years sometimes to grow into their adult role.  My nearly 40 something son sometimes does thing I still shake my head at.

By the time my two turned 20, they no longer had a desire to spend their Bdays with even their parents, but with their friends.

I you've had a more relaxed method of borrowing items, it might be time to rethink that since your grandson is older now and has shown he isn't as responsible with your stuff as you would like.  Besides, you might have plans to use the item in the same time frame and it might not be available to borrow.  Could that be one reason you were so upset about the life jacket?

Were you being out of character screaming at him when you never had before?  Or did he simply feel defensive because he knew he was wrong?

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He was totally wrong for taking your jacket, and not returning it promptly, and in the same condition he borrowed it in. No excuses for that.

However, *nobody* yells at me. Period. Full stop. If someone is yelling, there had better be danger involved. 

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On 11/2/2017 at 8:52 AM, ImpishMom said:

However, *nobody* yells at me. Period. Full stop. If someone is yelling, there had better be danger involved. 

Or blood. Or broken bones. Or they are 3 yrs going on 16 - desiring a timeout, alone.

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It doesn't matter what I've done wrong.......

I've observed people refusing to take responsibility for their own behavior by deflecting it onto someone else because since it's a little your fault it's none of their fault. 

Edited by skipped
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Sounds like he has some more growing up to do...

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On 11/2/2017 at 7:58 AM, Mryan33880 said:

My daughter says I should apologize to me grandson for "calling him a liar".

He came to my house when we weren't home and took some items to use on his vacation without asking. We returned to prepare for our vacation. I looked for my life jacket which was no longer there. I got a hold of him a few days later and asked if he had taken it and he said no ask his sister. A couple of weeks later I found it in my hallway. My husband said grandson left it when he came to borrow a movie. (Just put it down & didn't say anything to me) I didn't notice at the time. When he came again to use my printer I asked him about leaving the jacket without saying anything. I asked why he had said he didn't have it. He said he didn't remember that he had taken it. I asked questions because what he was saying didn't add up. At one point I was upset and he got mad & walked out. He texted that he left because I raised my voice. He said that I had a point about the life jacket but because I had raised my voice it didn't matter what he had done wrong. I wasn't ******** allowed to do that EVER if I wanted a relationship with him. Wouldn't matter if I was the Pope. If I yell he won't have anything to do with me because I disrespected him. I guess he's allowed to disrespect me by taking my things and not admitting to it and cussing at me. Now daughter says I should apologize to him for calling him a liar. 

I think he's finding an excuse to get away with bad behavior. I feel she thinks he should get a pass because he's my grandson & I should "love him no matter what". I live my dog but I'm not going to let him bite me.

What do you think

I wouldn't apologize and ask for forgiveness for losing my patience until I first figured out what part of this relationship wasn't working for me so that I could kill two birds with one stone during one discussion- From what you have described above I would personally make changes to the taking and borrowing and using my belongings dynamic of the relationship indefinitely and be consistent about it- It's sounds to me like you've had it with him just showing up to use or take your things- But if he's been allowed to do this since (?) I would make sure I chose my words and intentions carefully before I made my feelings known-

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2 hours ago, Nana-mom said:

Sounds like he has some more growing up to do...

It sounds like grandma and grandpa have allowed him full access to their belongings but left out conversations about respect maybe?

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Komorebi,  Even if there were conversations about respect, 20 year olds tend to forget them. They are pretty self centered at that age

I think he's learned to deflect blame like this because it works. .  I see this type of behavior in adults in work situations and unfortunately it works for them.  

If this was a one time thing I would apologize.  If this was a pattern I wouldn't.  If it was some where in between,  I'm not sure. I'd worry that it would be teaching GS a lesson that he can write off bad behavior by pointing out what the other person has done and that it is OK to make me expendable.

My low 20 year old nephew lives 10 minutes from my mother.  She practically raised him.  He probably sees her 3 times a year.   And never calls.  I think it's pretty normal to find your grandmother expendable.   He doesn't need to take responsibility for his actions, because he doesn't care about the consequences.

Edited by skipped
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skipped, it might have been a one time thing for grandma to holler, which might have taken him back if he isnt used to her doing that- But totally agree he could be using her raising her voice to deflect responsibility- However, it sounds  to me like there is a history of allowing him to waltz into their home to do as he pleases which might not have helped matters if he perhaps has doing so with a sense of entitlement all along-

I know people act like they never  holler lmao .. but even online people use CAPS .. lol .. and type words that even on a good day "in real life" are spoken with a certain fluctuaction of voice and tone .. :) .. like when calling people names lol ..

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17 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

 

I know people act like they never  holler lmao .. but even online people use CAPS .. lol .. and type words that even on a good day "in real life" are spoken with a certain fluctuaction of voice and tone .. :) .. like when calling people names lol ..

In case any new members - or potential new members - are reading this, i just want to point out that name-calling isn't allowed here in this Community b/c it violates the rule against personal attacks. (Komo, I know you were talking about online usage in general and not on this site specifically.)

For those of you who haven't yet read the guidelines, every forum contains a thread about them or the link to one. Here's the guidelines thread in this group:

 

And here's the GP.com definition of "personal attack" for those of you who haven't gotten around to reading that yet (or want to re-read it):

 

 

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20 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

In case any new members - or potential new members - are reading this, i just want to point out that name-calling isn't allowed here in this Community b/c it violates the rule against personal attacks. (Komo, I know you were talking about online usage in general and not on this site specifically.)

For those of you who haven't yet read the guidelines, every forum contains a thread about them or the link to one. Here's the guidelines thread in this group:

 

And here's the GP.com definition of "personal attack" for those of you who haven't gotten around to reading that yet (or want to re-read it):

 

 

Rose, to be completely clear, am I incorrect when I say that it is permissable to call someone a name that isnt member, such as calling someone a member is discussing a name, that isnt a member here, for example ... 

;)

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On 11/4/2017 at 10:12 AM, Komorebi said:

Rose, to be completely clear, am I incorrect when I say that it is permissable to call someone a name that isnt member...

Yes, posters here can call a non-member a negative/pejorative name. They may, of course, get some unpleasant reactions if they do. But It's only a vio if the name is directed at or said about a member.

ETA: Blanket negative generalizations (BNGs), however, are generally not allowed, regardless of who they're aimed at.

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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There is also a "Be Nice" clause in the guidelines:

What You Should Do

Be Nice - Sometimes the nicest people can come across the wrong way online. Please do not say or do anything to anyone that you would not say to their face in person. Avoid making personal attacks against other Grandparents.com members or staff members. We all come from varied backgrounds and not everyone has the same thoughts or feelings about some issues. Please be respectful of your fellow Grandparents.com users even if there is a difference of opinion.

 

 

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Thinking this situation over... I think it's "normal" for people to yell, sometimes, when they're very angry. Not saying it's the best response, just that it happens.

However, I agree w/ Komo that if this was an isolated occurrence, it might have totally shocked/thrown GS. OTOH, if it has happened often (Mryan hasn't said either way), it could have been a "last straw" issue, especially if he has asked her not to yell at him before (don't know if he has, of course).

Then again, as some PPs have suggested, he may simply be trying to blame-shift - making it about Mryan's yelling and "call(ing) him a liar," instead of focusing on the fact that he failed to return the life jacket promptly or take care of the stain. D, IMO, seems to be trying to deflect the blame from GS to Mryan, as well.

We would need more information, IMO, to know for sure. IOWs, we would need to know about Mryan's prior relationship w/ GS and whether or not there have been similar incidents before. Hopefully, she'll come back in soon and fill us in further.

Edited by RoseRed135
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I have problems with people using the "nuclear option"- I'm going to cut you off- if I do something that displeases them.  Imagine living with a husband that threatens to divorce you if you have an argument.  "yelling" in itself, unless there is something else going on, doesn't sound cut off worthy to me

Especially, if this is a one time offense

 

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10 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Thinking this situation over... I think it's "normal" for people to yell, sometimes, when they're very angry. Not saying it's the best response, just that it happens.

However, I agree w/ Komo that if this was an isolated occurrence, it might have totally shocked/thrown GS. OTOH, if it has happened often (Mryan hasn't said either way), it could have been a "last straw" issue, especially if he has asked her not to yell at him before (don't know if he has, of course).

Then again, as some PPs have suggested, he may simply be trying to blame-shift - making it about Mryan's yelling and "call(ing) him a liar," instead of focusing on the fact that he failed to return the life jacket promptly or take care of the stain. D, IMO, seems to be trying to deflect the blame from GS to Mryan, as well.

We would need more information, IMO, to know for sure. IOWs, we would need to know about Mryan's prior relationship w/ GS and whether or not there have been similar incidents before. Hopefully, she'll come back in soon and fill us in further.

And/Or instead of focusing on the fact he took it without permission and lied about even having it, for whatever reason. Most folks would consider that stealing, possibly breaking and entering, though, again, we don't know the "whole" story here, if a one time incident or normal everyday occurrence, for both the stealing/borrowing and the yelling.

I will say too, and I've heard this many times, first hand, children who get in trouble for whatever reason will tell their friends, for example, "My parents yelled at me for not doing my chores" when in fact, there was no yelling, they were just told firmly to do their chores, which upset the child, so I think "yelling" is in the eye of the beholder. That could be the case here but again, we only have one side of the story here but I don't necessarily consider raising ones voice the same as yelling.

I agree, more information is needed to make an informed decision on this though. I agree with PP if a one time incident, apologize, if this happens often, nope. Depends on how badly you want a relationship and your hill to die on.

 

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2 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

And/Or instead of focusing on the fact he took it without permission and lied about even having it, for whatever reason. Most folks would consider that stealing, possibly breaking and entering, though, again, we don't know the "whole" story here, if a one time incident or normal everyday occurrence, for both the stealing/borrowing and the yelling.

I will say too, and I've heard this many times, first hand, children who get in trouble for whatever reason will tell their friends, for example, "My parents yelled at me for not doing my chores" when in fact, there was no yelling, they were just told firmly to do their chores, which upset the child, so I think "yelling" is in the eye of the beholder. That could be the case here but again, we only have one side of the story here but I don't necessarily consider raising ones voice the same as yelling.

I agree, more information is needed to make an informed decision on this though. I agree with PP if a one time incident, apologize, if this happens often, nope. Depends on how badly you want a relationship and your hill to die on.

 

My daughter used to tell me to stop yelling at her. I told her it wasn't the volume in my voice she didn't like it was the tone.

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One of my students got his feelings hurt that I was "talking mean" to him...."Really? Honey, this isn't talking mean...my 'mean mommy voice' will make my 40 year old daughter wet her pants...what do you think it's gonna do to you?"

This kid is deflecting. Don't fall for it.

 

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