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GrandNonna

Update on Grandparent Visitation Law IL

58 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Hi again, GN! Thanks for updating us!

The image of your GS begging to stay w/ you always tugs at my heartstrings. I can only hope that this situation is resolved soon.

10 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, GN is the maternal GM, not the paternal GM. That's why I've never fully understood why the paternity issue applied to her.

Correct . 

I don't see how it would make any difference that GS is living w/ the dad. Since GN is the MGM, I don't see how whether or not he established paternity impacts her.

The courts have dismissed me each and every time based on the lack pf paternity established and when the law said I can petition because it had not been established in 2015 before the 2017 change , I was dismissed based on burden of proof that the lack of , would cause emotional , psychological or physical harm.

But, on second thought, Komo may have a point. It's not just that GS is living w/ his dad, it's that the mom, apparently, left him w/ the dad - and she can't be located (if I recall correctly). So w/o the mom, perhaps a judge would say, in effect, "How do I know this woman is the child's GM?" (I'm not sure that has to do w/ establishing paternity though.) 

ETA: But mom did show up for some court dates, so IDK if/how that factors in.

Komo is correct.  DD appeared in previous hearings under different petition case numbers and has argued with the judge refusing to provide her address and her reasons . Recently the judge said his hands are tied and that if DD had shown up , he would facilitate but without her in court he cannot. He did not dismiss me he denied my motion based on A- her no show   B - lack of paternity & C the supreme court rulings . In addition he stated that he is not even sure his court is the correct juridstiction because she refuses her address, there is another child , and we do not know what county she is in. One child may be in one county and one in another. The lack of paternity trumps a GP right to petition and they know it so they don't establish is . Yet they are "fit " parents. So if the father died , the  child goes unrecognized as an heir.

Every summary I read of Illinois GVR law suggests that this rule applies only to PGPs, including the one given by GP.com:

https://www.grandparents.com/family-and-relationships/grandparents-rights/grandparent-rights-united-states

More specifically, they say (italics mine):

A court may not allow visitation to a paternal grandparent if the grandchild was born out of wedlock and paternity has not been established

Like Imp, I don't see how the law could be changed so that (alleged) PGPs could just be awarded visitation, even though there was no legal proof that their son was the dad. If something in that section of the law is going to be changed, I don't see how it could be the part about needing to prove paternity. 

But again, @GrandNonna I don't mean to criticize or be difficult, but since you're the MGM, I don't see what this part of the law has to do w/ you nor why you're so enthusiastic about its possible changing.

I'm only enthusiastic about what part of the law prevents me from obtaining an order. Burden of proof so far if this law changes to disregard paternal GP so be it it won't apply to me . But so far they have made it clear that no GP can file without the father establishing legal paternity . 

Hi Rose !

Oh God thank you Rose. Everytime I remember that video I cry . I shared it with a local organization . Pending to hear back and I am sharing it with a therapist to obtain a clinical impression next week. 

 

Edited by RoseRed135
to remove duplicate quotes & reflect editing of one quote

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I don't understand: why shouldn't it need to be proved that the child would suffer harm if the relationship were to be severed? It's got to be a serious reason for any judge to step in and remove a parents rights to make decisions for their child as the parent sees fit. Supreme Court, Troxel v Granville stated such.

Also, it would seem that both the grandchild's parents are against you having visitation, so wouldn't this be exactly what Troxel v Granville covered?

I also genuinely don't see how legally establishing paternity is a litmus test for fit parenting. In matters of inheritance, isn't that what wills are for? I'm assuming there's no title of nobility involved.

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17 hours ago, BlueEyedGirl said:

Hello BlueEyedGirl ,

In answer to your questions i have bolded my responses . Thanks!

 

This sounds bigger to me than Grandparents Rights. If the child is in distress and talking of harming themselves, It sounds like Social Services needs to be involved in order to protect the child from themselves.  I don't know how this works in Grandparents Rights cases, but has the court appointed a Guardian Ad Litem for your grandchild? 

Yes a GAL was appointed in 2013 case and DD never showed up to any attempts by GAL for an appointment. There are 2 children , 2 fathers  the GS father had a lawyer show who clearly told the courts her ( my GS father ) had not established legal paternity there fore my case had no basis. I managed to finally serve my DD through a mediator and my lawyer at the  time who called her on an order for mediation which winded up with a ONE TIME VISIT that I worked out to have more. BUT she refused to allow me to let the judge know . Then in 2015 she cut me off again so I opened a new case as the old case was dismissed due to her no shows for want for prosecution. So a new case file was opened   which went on for ever ! Every request was dismissed based on burden of proof , lack of paternity anyway .

I don't know that is a natural appointment outside of parental custody cases, but it would seem to me that having a legal entity that is there strictly for the child and their interests would be helpful.

I asked the judge to consider the history and the continuity of my relationship with the children . 

They would be able to intervene if the child is in danger. Additionally, regardless of the type of harm the child may be facing, having an adult with no skin in the game except the child's best interest would benefit everyone. 

I agree I asked . I was denied .

For clarification - are you saying the child threatens harming themselves if they don't get to see you (and have not actually done anything) or are they actively engaging in some form of harm currently? 

He used to say he did not want to go home because of the yelling , loud music , being told if he does not obey he will not see me again . No he has not threatened to harm himself the law says prove that he has and you can have an order. I consider that  encouraging abuse with a lets wait and see factor instead of a preventative measure

It breaks my heart that any child is out there suffering. I do have to echo Imp's question though. If paternity is not established how can Grandparents Rights be established in the absence? What legal recourse do you have if paternity has not established that you are the grandparent.

Thank you it is heart breaking. With no paternity they say no petition . This is the part of the law that is being fixed . Constitutional issues , much more . 

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and I don't believe Imp is either, I think it is more wrapping our heads around how the courts could possibly even consider granting Grandparents visitation if it has not been established that you are their grandparent? Are you strictly referencing the new verbiage for the law? Or are you speaking personally?

No I am providing information sent to me in email by the state chief legal counsel of the ethics committee

 

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8 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

I don't understand: why shouldn't it need to be proved that the child would suffer harm if the relationship were to be severed?

I agree with you but they want to hear what the child has suffered and they want witness. I have that but everyone has to appear

before the judge . Even based on the fact that if you fail to answer your petition within the 28 day time limit an order cannot be made without the parent's in court.

It's got to be a serious reason for any judge to step in and remove a parents rights to make decisions for their child as the parent sees fit. Supreme Court, Troxel v Granville stated such.

Troxel v Granville was a death of daughter case. Mine is wedlock and boy is it tough.

Also, it would seem that both the grandchild's parents are against you having visitation, so wouldn't this be exactly what Troxel v Granville covered?

No . Not married no one died.

I also genuinely don't see how legally establishing paternity is a litmus test for fit parenting. In matters of inheritance, isn't that what wills are for? I'm assuming there's no title of nobility involved.

Yes and I have my will and my life insurance policy . I feel like I am dealing with a cult to be honest . My DD got involved with some real headcases who have manipulated her , brainwashed her , and worked her like a gear over the past 4 yrs. 

 

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10 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Ok, I googled the law as it stands now (perhaps some of you have, too):

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/075000050K602.9.htm

I'm no legal expert, but, I admit, some of the language about proving paternity (or "parentage") sounds confusing to me. For example, in one place it says that GPs (or step-parents or siblings) can petition the court for visitation if, among other things:

parentage has been established by a court of competent jurisdiction. 

Yes with no parentage no one is doing anything. They are re writing this .

That may just be "legaleese," but it sounds to me as if it could apply to either parent - and impact any GP, etc., regardless of which side of the family they are on. Correct

Granted, further on, it says, more specifically:

A petition for visitation privileges may not be filed by the parents... of a parent of the child if parentage between the child and the related parent has not been legally established. Yes this is a component of parentage as well

That seems to me to make it a little clearer that, say, the standing of a MGP would not be affected by whether or not the dad established paternity. So I'm still not clear on what lawmakers are thinking of changing. I too am not clear why my maternal part is not recognized . I agree with you I picked this law apart with a fine tooth comb . And I am pending till spring as told.

 

 
     
 

 

Edited by RoseRed135
to remove duplicate quote

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It doesn't actually matter what the specifics are. In T v G. The Supreme Court flatly said that, "the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protects the fundamental right of parents to make decisions concerning the care, custody, and control of their children." and that Troxel requires that state courts must give "special weight" to a fit parent's decision to deny non-parent visitation. "Choices [parents make] about the upbringing of children... are among associational rights... sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State's unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect."

That's not just in certain circumstances, it's across the board. Unless a parent is proven unfit, they are presumed to have the fundamental decision making rights for their children. 

You're not in a case where one fit parent is saying you should have visitation, and the other saying no. Both parents are saying no. Even if your dd was the only legally established parent, she's said no.

The only way I can see that it would matter if paternity was established was if one party or the other was saying yes.

 

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Oh God thank you Rose. Everytime I remember that video I cry . I shared it with a local organization . Pending to hear back and I am sharing it with a therapist to obtain a clinical impression next week. 

You're very welcome, GN. (((Hugs!)))

If it's any comfort, though, I'm sure GS has some good times w/ his dad and PGPs. (I hope it doesn't hurt when I mention the PGPs. I'm just trying to suggest that he's getting love, etc., even though, sadly, he can't spend time w/ you.)

But on that video, didn't GS also say that his dad "hits him all over?" If so, has it ever been shared w/ Social Services? I know the parents might be angry if you went to CPS (or whatever it's called where you live). But they're already angry, and it might be worth the risk if you have any reason to fear that GS is being abused. As BEG said earlier, this might be "bigger" than a GVR case.

Edited by RoseRed135

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Thanks for the update/clarity- I do hope the new changes will work to benefit the children- 

As the law Grandnonna is talking about stands, the way I see it, a person can exercise parental constitutional rights without proving paternity by way of refusing a grandparents liberty to petition-

 

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On 11/10/2017 at 0:32 AM, ImpishMom said:

It doesn't actually matter what the specifics are. In T v G. The Supreme Court flatly said that, "the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protects the fundamental right of parents to make decisions concerning the care, custody, and control of their children." and that Troxel requires that state courts must give "special weight" to a fit parent's decision to deny non-parent visitation. "Choices [parents make] about the upbringing of children... are among associational rights... sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State's unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect."

That's not just in certain circumstances, it's across the board. Unless a parent is proven unfit, they are presumed to have the fundamental decision making rights for their children. 

You're not in a case where one fit parent is saying you should have visitation, and the other saying no. Both parents are saying no. Even if your dd was the only legally established parent, she's said no.

The only way I can see that it would matter if paternity was established was if one party or the other was saying yes.

 

Hi BlueEyes

I agree with you . But DD says nothing . She fails to answer , fails to show cause she just remains silent. When my GD told her she was being abused by the male she had a son with she told her NO IT DID NOT HAPPEN . I'll never forget my GD telling her in such an honest voice yes it did mom . A week or two later DD called me and had a story of her own to protect the wrong doings. I'll always believe the child .  

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22 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Oh God thank you Rose. Everytime I remember that video I cry . I shared it with a local organization . Pending to hear back and I am sharing it with a therapist to obtain a clinical impression next week. 

You're very welcome, GN. (((Hugs!)))

If it's any comfort, though, I'm sure GS has some good times w/ his dad and PGPs. (I hope it doesn't hurt when I mention the PGPs. I'm just trying to suggest that he's getting love, etc., even though, sadly, he can't spend time w/ you.)

But on that video, didn't GS also say that his dad "hits him all over?" If so, has it ever been shared w/ Social Services? I know the parents might be angry if you went to CPS (or whatever it's called where you live). But they're already angry, and it might be worth the risk if you have any reason to fear that GS is being abused. As BEG said earlier, this might be "bigger" than a GVR case.

Hi Rose ,

Sorry I am late on here I have been buried in my books for finals. Actually GS never said anything about happy times with PGP or the father. He has said he was afraid to be yelled at because his PGP yells too . The family is jealous and eager to be front line in any domestic situation what can I say . Yes he said he hits him puts him in time out , that he locks himself in the bathroom to have quiet . Yes I informed DCFS when they came to the hospital to take our statements I included his complaints and mentioned they are recorded. Not a flinch out of her I think she was an ignorant lazy _____ !!  She said I acted out of impulse taking GD to the hospital. Golly what do you do if you have a child with a reddened genital area ma'am ? Poor child was itching one minute and burning the next.  After 2 years ( Nov 10th today marks 2 years of not seeing them )  The way I am treated is how the abuser should be treated. I can't make a call if I don't know . I feel so lost . I was accused of calling in the past  about abuse and I never did . One time I was on the phone with my DD and suddenly the father came home yelling that I called the school. I was like WTF? My x was sitting near and got on the phone and said I didn't . I still  have my phone records . The Senator assistant wants me to call DCFS . But what is her reason ? Because it would seem quite spiteful not seeing not knowing . I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt and make myself appear to be what they have decided I am when I am not that . Local authorities do have all the content of the surveillance that I had one time so they can watch his deliveries of pot or whatever it is he does. They told me it may take a long time that was in August. 

The anger is a farce it is in reality a reaction to a bad person who did a bad thing to a child and managed to slip through the cracks because DD vouched for him and said she is there all the time and said no he didn't just like she said to me for her daughter. I pray that my GS when I see him , has positive things to say . But I cannot erase from my mind what GD told me coupled with the mauling he would do on my DD when they met and during her pregnancy she would push him away . I found his FB page he uploaded pictures of her that are old she is very drunk and i handed that over to Senate too. Some people say stop protecting her and lashing out at him.  God speed help soon . 

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18 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Thanks for the update/clarity- I do hope the new changes will work to benefit the children- You're most welcome.

As the law Grandnonna is talking about stands, the way I see it, a person can exercise parental constitutional rights without proving paternity by way of refusing a grandparents liberty to petition- This is exactly what they are doing because heaven forbid they establish legal paternity GASP! I win and they better have a good reason to dismiss it . 

 

 

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On 11/9/2017 at 7:03 AM, Komorebi said:

Say dad's name wasn't on the birth certificate, but mom left the baby with him anyways- If that were the case I hold leverage . Dad signed at the hospital and then went for a DNA per request of his father . He may have that power but in a court of law he doesn't . His lawyer uses a document that one of my lawyers drafted that acknowledged him as the biological father ( Stupid lawyer and he refuses to amend the petition back in 2013 ) . So they say she knows he is the biological father  ! That trumps my petition that says legal paternity has not been established / Case dismissed. If they never go in , and I doubt they will , for paternity the day my GS turns 18 he can petition for all that child support . Same with GD too.

On 11/10/2017 at 11:21 PM, GrandNonna said:

Hello Impish ,

Beings that I am the "Maternal Grandmother " it makes it pretty simple as my daughter has a child and I am her mother. In 2015 , it allowed us to petition the courts if paternity hasn't been established based on her being my adult daughter . But now even though it is reversed , I wrote to our general assembly and said it made no sense to consider a putitive father a fit parent ordering maternal or paternal grandparents around cutting us all off and bypassing the legal system . I think in a paternal situation where the fathers grandparents have asked for visitation would and should be denied basked on the status of the lack of paternity and not knowing if the child is a true biological match .  

18 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Thanks for the update/clarity- I do hope the new changes will work to benefit the children- You're most welcome.

As the law Grandnonna is talking about stands, the way I see it, a person can exercise parental constitutional rights without proving paternity by way of refusing a grandparents liberty to petition- This is exactly what they are doing because heaven forbid they establish legal paternity GASP! I win and they better have a good reason to dismiss it . 

 

 

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1 hour ago, GrandNonna said:

Hi Rose ,

Sorry I am late on here I have been buried in my books for finals. Actually GS never said anything about happy times with PGP or the father. He has said he was afraid to be yelled at because his PGP yells too . The family is jealous and eager to be front line in any domestic situation what can I say . Yes he said he hits him puts him in time out , that he locks himself in the bathroom to have quiet . Yes I informed DCFS when they came to the hospital to take our statements I included his complaints and mentioned they are recorded. Not a flinch out of her I think she was an ignorant lazy _____ !!  She said I acted out of impulse taking GD to the hospital. Golly what do you do if you have a child with a reddened genital area ma'am ? Poor child was itching one minute and burning the next.  After 2 years ( Nov 10th today marks 2 years of not seeing them )  The way I am treated is how the abuser should be treated. I can't make a call if I don't know . I feel so lost . I was accused of calling in the past  about abuse and I never did . One time I was on the phone with my DD and suddenly the father came home yelling that I called the school. I was like WTF? My x was sitting near and got on the phone and said I didn't . I still  have my phone records . The Senator assistant wants me to call DCFS . But what is her reason ? Because it would seem quite spiteful not seeing not knowing . I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt and make myself appear to be what they have decided I am when I am not that . Local authorities do have all the content of the surveillance that I had one time so they can watch his deliveries of pot or whatever it is he does. They told me it may take a long time that was in August. 

The anger is a farce it is in reality a reaction to a bad person who did a bad thing to a child and managed to slip through the cracks because DD vouched for him and said she is there all the time and said no he didn't just like she said to me for her daughter. I pray that my GS when I see him , has positive things to say . But I cannot erase from my mind what GD told me coupled with the mauling he would do on my DD when they met and during her pregnancy she would push him away . I found his FB page he uploaded pictures of her that are old she is very drunk and i handed that over to Senate too. Some people say stop protecting her and lashing out at him.  God speed help soon . 

Wow. Just wow.

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12 hours ago, GrandNonna said:

Hi Rose ,

Sorry I am late on here I have been buried in my books for finals. Actually GS never said anything about happy times with PGP or the father. He has said he was afraid to be yelled at because his PGP yells too . The family is jealous and eager to be front line in any domestic situation what can I say . Yes he said he hits him puts him in time out , that he locks himself in the bathroom to have quiet . Yes I informed DCFS when they came to the hospital to take our statements I included his complaints and mentioned they are recorded. Not a flinch out of her I think she was an ignorant lazy _____ !!  She said I acted out of impulse taking GD to the hospital. Golly what do you do if you have a child with a reddened genital area ma'am ? Poor child was itching one minute and burning the next.  After 2 years ( Nov 10th today marks 2 years of not seeing them )  The way I am treated is how the abuser should be treated. I can't make a call if I don't know . I feel so lost . I was accused of calling in the past  about abuse and I never did . One time I was on the phone with my DD and suddenly the father came home yelling that I called the school. I was like WTF? My x was sitting near and got on the phone and said I didn't . I still  have my phone records . The Senator assistant wants me to call DCFS . But what is her reason ? Because it would seem quite spiteful not seeing not knowing . I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt and make myself appear to be what they have decided I am when I am not that . Local authorities do have all the content of the surveillance that I had one time so they can watch his deliveries of pot or whatever it is he does. They told me it may take a long time that was in August. 

The anger is a farce it is in reality a reaction to a bad person who did a bad thing to a child and managed to slip through the cracks because DD vouched for him and said she is there all the time and said no he didn't just like she said to me for her daughter. I pray that my GS when I see him , has positive things to say . But I cannot erase from my mind what GD told me coupled with the mauling he would do on my DD when they met and during her pregnancy she would push him away . I found his FB page he uploaded pictures of her that are old she is very drunk and i handed that over to Senate too. Some people say stop protecting her and lashing out at him.  God speed help soon . 

Not only that, Nonna, depending on the judge/court/county, such events like the trip to the hospital can be prevented from being admitted as evidence to support a case- It can be one of those ****** if you do, ****** if you don't scenarios- If you make an effort, you're a trouble maker- If you don't make an effort, you're neglectful- I caution you to double check what DCFS advises you to do because what they asked of me was to go against a court order- I refused, I retained a lawyer who at one time worked for DCFS- He informed me that they can play dirty- I received notice to appear in court one evening, the court date? The following day at 9:00AM- It was 7 hours away- We drove through the night- The second time they attempted to be shady my lawyer overhead a courthouse grapevine and acted accordingly- Long story short, in the end I won, the child won -- but not without repercussion- Sometimes it doesn't matter how many times that you (general) petition the court to consider, and reconsider, what's in the best interest of any child, not when you yourself have to protect yourself from the system that's supposedly designed to protect the child and then attempt to prove that you're (general) acting in your best interest, not the child's- I hope that makes sense- Bottom line, doing what was best for me was also in the best interest of the child-

When people think they are right, and you (general) are not, they will go to great lengths to prove it even if they never do- I wish you the very best of luck going forward-

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8 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Not only that, Nonna, depending on the judge/court/county, such events like the trip to the hospital can be prevented from being admitted as evidence to support a case- It can be one of those ****** if you do, ****** if you don't scenarios- If you make an effort, you're a trouble maker- If you don't make an effort, you're neglectful- I caution you to double check what DCFS advises you to do because what they asked of me was to go against a court order- I refused, I retained a lawyer who at one time worked for DCFS- He informed me that they can play dirty- I received notice to appear in court one evening, the court date? The following day at 9:00AM- It was 7 hours away- We drove through the night- The second time they attempted to be shady my lawyer overhead a courthouse grapevine and acted accordingly- Long story short, in the end I won, the child won -- but not without repercussion- Sometimes it doesn't matter how many times that you (general) petition the court to consider, and reconsider, what's in the best interest of any child, not when you yourself have to protect yourself from the system that's supposedly designed to protect the child and then attempt to prove that you're (general) acting in your best interest, not the child's- I hope that makes sense- Bottom line, doing what was best for me was also in the best interest of the child-

When people think they are right, and you (general) are not, they will go to great lengths to prove it even if they never do- I wish you the very best of luck going forward-

Hi Komoreni ,

You took the words right out of my mind. After I gave my statement to the detective I said watch what happens now I won't see my grandchildren . I said to him what DCFS worker said about my acting on impulse. And i said to him I'm ****** if I didn't come forward and would be neglectful had I not. Then the detective said he was not comfortable interviewing a 3 1/2 year old child. That child spoke like a scholar and had no fear telling the nurse that he slapped her there. The judge. Had many opportunities to facilitate when my DD appeared and even when she showed up and sat in the chair not approaching the bench like she was some kind of superior . She sat , listened to what happens next that she has not responded , gathered her information and walked out. Did the judge once make her come up to his bench ? Oh heck no. Because parents have the say and even though they show no respect for the courts they roll out the carpet for them. I'm a parent . Her parent and she has to get mental help . All her friends protect her and speak for her as if she is their child. I called one of her girlfriends who's number I found on her resume after I search . I was as sweet as pie to her . I said this is GN , L's mother may I ask you if you can tell me how my DD and the kids are ? Her answer was I have not seen ... I asked so you have not seen L or the kids ?Then she stutters and said you're stalking your daughter. You are calling my private line. I said no I am not stalking i am resourcing and i found your number online . She said I am not your resource and I simply said ok M goodbye. This so called friend became a certified licensed therapist.  

 

Edited by RoseRed135
guideline 5e

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1 hour ago, GrandNonna said:

Hi Komoreni ,

You took the words right out of my mind. After I gave my statement to the detective I said watch what happens now I won't see my grandchildren . I said to him what DCFS worker said about my acting on impulse. And i said to him I'm ****** if I didn't come forward and would be neglectful had I not. Then the detective said he was not comfortable interviewing a 3 1/2 year old child. That child spoke like a scholar and had no fear telling the nurse that he slapped her there. The judge. Had many opportunities to facilitate when my DD appeared and even when she showed up and sat in the chair not approaching the bench like she was some kind of superior . She sat , listened to what happens next that she has not responded , gathered her information and walked out. Did the judge once make her come up to his bench ? Oh heck no. Because parents have the say and even though they show no respect for the courts they roll out the carpet for them. I'm a parent . Her parent and she has to get mental help . All her friends protect her and speak for her as if she is their child. I called one of her girlfriends who's number I found on her resume after I search . I was as sweet as pie to her . I said this is GN , L's mother may I ask you if you can tell me how my DD and the kids are ? Her answer was I have not seen ... I asked so you have not seen L or the kids ?Then she stutters and said you're stalking your daughter. You are calling my private line. I said no I am not stalking i am resourcing and i found your number online . She said I am not your resource and I simply said ok M goodbye. This so called friend became a certified licensed therapist.  

 

Actually, you mentioned performing surveliance before. Taking photos of your ex SIL's home. Tracking down your dd's associates.

If I were your dd's friend, *I* would feel stalked. If someone were outside my home, taking photos of my house, comings and goings, and where my minor children reside, I would absolutely feel stalked, and would absolutely call the police and report it, and press any and all available charges.

Just b/c she's a friend of your dd doesn't mean that you have the right to call her home and demand information.

I understand you're concerned. But it seems to me, you've crossed some lines, and if you aren't careful, could well end you up in legal trouble.

Plus, stuff like calling up your dd's friends? It legitimizes any claims she's made about you stalking or harassing her, and being her friends, of COURSE they're going to protect her from someone who's stalking her, regardless of who that person is.

You are your dd's parent, but she is an adult. You are no longer an authority figure for her, in her eyes, or the eyes of the law.

 

Edited by RoseRed135
to reflect editing of quoted post

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1 hour ago, GrandNonna said:

... After I gave my statement to the detective I said watch what happens now I won't see my grandchildren . I said to him what DCFS worker said about my acting on impulse. And i said to him I'm ****** if I didn't come forward and would be neglectful had I not. Then the detective said he was not comfortable interviewing a 3 1/2 year old child. That child spoke like a scholar and had no fear telling the nurse that he slapped her there.

 

GN, posters here often tell an OP that reporting abuse might lead to their being CO from their GC - BUT that if they truly suspect abuse, they need to report it, anyhow, for the sake of the child. You did that, apparently, and that takes courage. Bravo!

The detective may have been reluctant to interview GD/a 3 1/2 b/c they don't always know the difference between reality & fantasy, are very impressionable, etc. No matter how well GD speaks, etc. that may be his policy regarding children that age. But you did your best by GD, no doubt.

The suspected abuse was by GS' dad, correct? And wasn't it after this incident that DD took her away and, eventually, brought her to live w/ her own dad instead? Maybe she believed you, even though she wouldn't admit it. Chances are, you saved GD. Please take some comfort in that.
 

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2 hours ago, GrandNonna said:

 All her friends protect her and speak for her as if she is their child. I called one of her girlfriends who's number I found on her resume after I search . I was as sweet as pie to her . I said this is GN , L's mother may I ask you if you can tell me how my DD and the kids are ? Her answer was I have not seen ... I asked so you have not seen L or the kids ?Then she stutters and said you're stalking your daughter. You are calling my private line. I said no I am not stalking i am resourcing and i found your number online . She said I am not your resource and I simply said ok M goodbye. This so called friend became a certified licensed therapist.  

 

I hope you don't try to contact any of DD's friends anymore. I know you're eager to hear news of DD and the kids. And I know it must have been tempting to call that number once you found it. But DD's friends are just that - her friends. She is probably trusting them not to give you information about her and the kids, and they are not going to betray her trust, no matter how "sweet"you are. All the denials of "stalking" - even saying "I'm resourcing" - aren't likely to help either, IMO - her friends will still see it as "stalking" and, if it continues, might even report it.  In fact, if the friend were to tell DD you called her asking questions, most likely, it would only antagonize DD further. There's just no point in contacting DD's friends, IMO. So please... don't.

Edited by RoseRed135
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17 hours ago, GrandNonna said:

Hi Komoreni ,

You took the words right out of my mind. After I gave my statement to the detective I said watch what happens now I won't see my grandchildren . I said to him what DCFS worker said about my acting on impulse. And i said to him I'm ****** if I didn't come forward and would be neglectful had I not. Then the detective said he was not comfortable interviewing a 3 1/2 year old child. That child spoke like a scholar and had no fear telling the nurse that he slapped her there. The judge. Had many opportunities to facilitate when my DD appeared and even when she showed up and sat in the chair not approaching the bench like she was some kind of superior . She sat , listened to what happens next that she has not responded , gathered her information and walked out. Did the judge once make her come up to his bench ? Oh heck no. Because parents have the say and even though they show no respect for the courts they roll out the carpet for them. I'm a parent . Her parent and she has to get mental help . All her friends protect her and speak for her as if she is their child. I called one of her girlfriends who's number I found on her resume after I search . I was as sweet as pie to her . I said this is GN , L's mother may I ask you if you can tell me how my DD and the kids are ? Her answer was I have not seen ... I asked so you have not seen L or the kids ?Then she stutters and said you're stalking your daughter. You are calling my private line. I said no I am not stalking i am resourcing and i found your number online . She said I am not your resource and I simply said ok M goodbye. This so called friend became a certified licensed therapist.  

 

There will always be some consequence when speaking out in support of anything or against anything because there will always be two sides to any story- And it's not uncommon for people to not want to hear another side of a story but take whatever measures available to them to prevent it from being told-

When a grandparent petitions the court for visitation I see it as two stories being presented- One) There are unresolved problems- Two) The grandparent is publicly expressing an interest in their grandchild- That's about the gist of it- Aside from that I don't know what more a grandparent can do after being heard- However, in states where the law prevents a grandparent from doing just that I can see a grandparent taking steps to facilitate changing such a situation-

I think my x/sister in-laws family, including her, took measures to prevent visitation and by doing so prove our lack of presence expressed disinterest -- and lead her daughter to believe she was "protecting" her from xyz- It didn't work- Small as my niece was at the time she remembered us, the fun she had with her cousins, the holidays, and how much she was loved by all of us- Once old enough, she returned on her own and remained a part of our lives-

The best advice I have to offer is to let your grandchild remember she was loved -- and your daughter, too- Sometimes one has to let distance do the work in order for such memories to be recalled-

Edited by Komorebi
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19 hours ago, ImpishMom said:

Actually, you mentioned performing surveliance before. Taking photos of your ex SIL's home. Tracking down your dd's associates.

If I were your dd's friend, *I* would feel stalked. If someone were outside my home, taking photos of my house, comings and goings, and where my minor children reside, I would absolutely feel stalked, and would absolutely call the police and report it, and press any and all available charges.

Just b/c she's a friend of your dd doesn't mean that you have the right to call her home and demand information.

I understand you're concerned. But it seems to me, you've crossed some lines, and if you aren't careful, could well end you up in legal trouble.

Plus, stuff like calling up your dd's friends? It legitimizes any claims she's made about you stalking or harassing her, and being her friends, of COURSE they're going to protect her from someone who's stalking her, regardless of who that person is.

You are your dd's parent, but she is an adult. You are no longer an authority figure for her, in her eyes, or the eyes of the law.

 

Hello Impish ,

Let me be clear on my concerns that led up to having a P.I. watch. First of all information and knowledge about drugs and abuse are the reason that led to that which was a few years ago . No one is stalking . That words is pretty creepy . When my grandchildren are being baby sat by people who are hardly known . There were no "demands" when I called. The only reason I called was as a concerned parent who knows this person , had what I thought was a civil connection with her , providing out grown baby items and wardrobe to her , etc . There was no anger or harm in my call. I realize that spite can make someone can and will twist a situation out of control which is what has been the threat towards me for petitioning the courts . It started with my GS father , whereas he was the stalking harassing interfering individual with his texts , calls , demands and orders to GET HOME NOW to my daughter and their son.  I am dealing with only one  situation. I love my grandchildren and daughter and hope their future holds healing. It is no secret as my DD told me she indulged in hallucinogens , hanging out with a fellow who was arrested for them , hanging with alot of drinking . When you know what goes on it makes it pretty normal to consider having a P.I. I understand to be cautious I really do . But i also understand that to allege that someone is stalking or harassing you should have some pretty good proof. Aside of the fact that I don't jump the gun and just do these things I gather thoughts and advise from trusted individuals  . In fact some officers and state investigators asked why don't you do a well check ? That is even worse having squad cars show up and knock on doors. I have turned away from some advice that in my opinion is drastic . And the advice came from state reps. I am sorry you feel as you do about this but with the added information I have givin you what if anything would you do? Please don't say call DCFS because those workers really need better intervention skills .  By the way how old are your adult children ? Have you had your rights pulled ?

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18 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

GN, posters here often tell an OP that reporting abuse might lead to their being CO from their GC - BUT that if they truly suspect abuse, they need to report it, anyhow, for the sake of the child. You did that, apparently, and that takes courage. Bravo!

The detective may have been reluctant to interview GD/a 3 1/2 b/c they don't always know the difference between reality & fantasy, are very impressionable, etc. No matter how well GD speaks, etc. that may be his policy regarding children that age. But you did your best by GD, no doubt.

The suspected abuse was by GS' dad, correct? And wasn't it after this incident that DD took her away and, eventually, brought her to live w/ her own dad instead? Maybe she believed you, even though she wouldn't admit it. Chances are, you saved GD. Please take some comfort in that.
 

Hi Rose  ,

Yes the suspected abuse ws from GS dad to GD who has a different dad and DD was told to remove her from that dwelling to a  safe place. Det wanted her to go with me because she knows me better her father is never home and his new spouse has issues of her own . Only while the investigation was ongoing was the child to be placed somewhere with another family member . DD has the final say and that was what she decided. GD father said yes you can see her we will just have to mee thalfway . But then he proved to be a liar .  Last year his wife called me to pretend to arrange a visit telling me I can visit as long as I like . And when I followed through I was denied . Why? Change mind. She should not be involved in this but I guess it makes her feel powerful to emotionally abuse a grandmother. 

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3 hours ago, Komorebi said:

There will always be some consequence when speaking out in support of anything or against anything because there will always be two sides to any story- And it's not uncommon for people to not want to hear another side of a story but take whatever measures available to them to prevent it from being told-

When a grandparent petitions the court for visitation I see it as two stories being presented- One) There are unresolved problems- Two) The grandparent is publicly expressing an interest in their grandchild- That's about the gist of it- Aside from that I don't know what more a grandparent can do after being heard- However, in states where the law prevents a grandparent from doing just that I can see a grandparent taking steps to facilitate changing such a situation-

I think my x/sister in-laws family, including her, took measures to prevent visitation and by doing so prove our lack of presence expressed disinterest -- and lead her daughter to believe she was "protecting" her from xyz- It didn't work- Small as my niece was at the time she remembered us, the fun she had with her cousins, the holidays, and how much she was loved by all of us- Once old enough, she returned on her own and remained a part of our lives-

The best advice I have to offer is to let your grandchild remember she was loved -- and your daughter, too- Sometimes one has to let distance do the work in order for such memories to be recalled-

Hi Komorebi ,

How old was your niece then and how many years before she came back ? I have alot of great memories . No one can mimic them that's the best part. 

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18 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

I hope you don't try to contact any of DD's friends anymore. I know you're eager to hear news of DD and the kids. And I know it must have been tempting to call that number once you found it. But DD's friends are just that - her friends. She is probably trusting them not to give you information about her and the kids, and they are not going to betray her trust, no matter how "sweet"you are. All the denials of "stalking" - even saying "I'm resourcing" - aren't likely to help either, IMO - her friends will still see it as "stalking" and, if it continues, might even report it.  In fact, if the friend were to tell DD you called her asking questions, most likely, it would only antagonize DD further. There's just no point in contacting DD's friends, IMO. So please... don't.

Thank you Rose . I won't 

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58 minutes ago, GrandNonna said:

Hi Komorebi ,

How old was your niece then and how many years before she came back ? I have alot of great memories . No one can mimic them that's the best part. 

Hi, nonna- She was about 6 years old at the time and we didn't see her again until she was about 16/17 and ready to graduate high school- So, a decade-

What was strange was just before she reconnected I had bumped into her in town one day, she was walking with a friend- I saw her face and recognized her immediately and she me-

I didn't realize that drug use was yet another facet of the situation but I think you were wise to hire a private investigator- I now understand your desire to keep a pulse on the whereabouts of your daughter and her child-

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

Hi, nonna- She was about 6 years old at the time and we didn't see her again until she was about 16/17 and ready to graduate high school- So, a decade-

What was strange was just before she reconnected I had bumped into her in town one day, she was walking with a friend- I saw her face and recognized her immediately and she me-

I didn't realize that drug use was yet another facet of the situation but I think you were wise to hire a private investigator- I now understand your desire to keep a pulse on the whereabouts of your daughter and her child-

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Wow but it amazing that she is with you now. You and your family must have really put alot of love into creating a memory that is warm loving happy and caring. And at the age of 16 is a blessing to have cross paths with her again because that age is a new beginning in life where teens sometimes really need the right role model while transitioning into a new phase in life. Bravo !  Thank you for your understanding . My thoughts are I never want to get a call to learn that I have lost my only adult child. I am not trying to take over her life , just want her to open the door a little. She told me once that because of her lifestyle it has to be this way . Wonder what that is but I already know it's not positive . I just pray she doesn't turn her back on her kids and leave them. Taking me out of their lives always has me wonder if  reducing family members and introducing other people is her way of doing just that . The really difficult part of this is I work with people in health care and it is tremendously emotional to not show my emotions while helping others . 

6 hours ago, Komorebi said:

There will always be some consequence when speaking out in support of anything or against anything because there will always be two sides to any story- And it's not uncommon for people to not want to hear another side of a story but take whatever measures available to them to prevent it from being told-

When a grandparent petitions the court for visitation I see it as two stories being presented- One) There are unresolved problems- Two) The grandparent is publicly expressing an interest in their grandchild- That's about the gist of it- Aside from that I don't know what more a grandparent can do after being heard- However, in states where the law prevents a grandparent from doing just that I can see a grandparent taking steps to facilitate changing such a situation-

I think my x/sister in-laws family, including her, took measures to prevent visitation and by doing so prove our lack of presence expressed disinterest -- and lead her daughter to believe she was "protecting" her from xyz- It didn't work- Small as my niece was at the time she remembered us, the fun she had with her cousins, the holidays, and how much she was loved by all of us- Once old enough, she returned on her own and remained a part of our lives-

The best advice I have to offer is to let your grandchild remember she was loved -- and your daughter, too- Sometimes one has to let distance do the work in order for such memories to be recalled-

Hi Komorebi ,

How old was your niece then and how many years before she came back ? I have alot of great memories . No one can mimic them that's the best part. 

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