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Maxine2020

1st post MIL and SIL Troubles

206 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, dilpenshername said:

I am a DIL.  My inlaws hate me for their own reasons.  Hell, my SisIL and FIL have encouraged my DH to divorce me.  What has that got them? He talks to his Dad less now.  He only talks to his sister when it involves his dads health.  It drove a wedge between them.  You are driving a similar wedge between your family.

There is nothing wrong with living with your mother. However, if you are drinking tea and complaining about SIL, you are further driving a wedge. 

Maybe focus on something else? Maybe just give in?

you are making your own situation worse.

 

 

Your SonIL is not holding your GS hostage. You are.

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6 minutes ago, Oranges said:

I don't know if I have ever read a post where everyone was in 100% agreement. You have that honor.

Yep. Worthy ^^^ of a thought, Maxine.

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30 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

I have read everyone's point of view but I don't agree. 

I'm thinking counseling to help you regarding American family relationships is your answer. Yes, his letter was long. It was also well thought out, polite, and on point. It's obvious he is an excellent communicator.

The paragraph below sums up most of your issues, in one little package, for me.

"Many people commented that every other week is a fair arrangement.  It is. Our family is closer than that. Posters always believe that, or say such. In Belarus, we all shared a two room apartment and here in America, my sisters children, and my sister and her husband stop in 5-7 times a week.  My SIL is very independent, he left home when he was 18.  All our kids did too, some came home a bit between college and grad school or after divorce, but they all flew the nest (initially) at 18. Accepted norm in America.Our oldest daughter Amy, now lives with us.  My sister has two children, 1 moved out about 5 years ago when he was 35, the other is now 35 and still lives at home.    I have always lived with my mother. Not common policy/procedure in America    Almost every evening we sit around and drink tea and talk about how horrible our son in law is and how he is holding our GS hostage. Not nice or kind at all, gossip is a horrible vice, imo.  Without exception, we are all in agreement about this situation." <- we posters are as well.

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I think your SIL might be minimizing the pressure he is putting on you to do exactly what he wants.  Bullying is a strong word, but there still is pressure and a lot of it.  When someone says up front, if you don't do this these are the negative consequences, and the other person has all the power, there is pressure to do exactly what he wants.  It might be his right and he might be right, but he is still pressuring.

The CPR class is another hoop he is pressuring you to take.   Your son IL sounds like a rigid personality.  As I said above, I'd be happy if someone took the class. If they were test adverse, I wouldn't push a test on them.  I personally wouldn't have a problem with doing either of these things, but I don't think it's fair to deny that there is pressure involved.

 

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Hubby and I were both born in the States as were all our parents.  Hubby's PGM was born in Germany and immigrated to Russia when she was a small child.  From there, they came through Ellis Island when she was about 10 and homesteaded in Oklahoma.  FIL left home for the Army during WWII and served stateside where he met and married MIL.  They moved to our current area about 65 years ago and lived here the rest of their lives.  His mother, brother,and sister might have came to visit once or twice a year in her later years and they visited Oklahoma maybe the same number of times.  We have been married over 40 years and I know his cousins from family funerals.

My siblings and I were raised two blocks from my PGM and I sure can't remember visiting everyday even during the summer.

Two things in your original post stood out to me:

We had a plan to say that Gammy was too sick to visit them (they live about 5 miles away) and try to force the SIL

Our family is closer than that. In Belarus, we all shared a two room apartment and here in America, my sisters children, and my sister and her husband stop in 5-7 times a week.

Your family might be close, but obviously if you sit around and badmouth SIL he isn't included nor do you want him to be if you are not including him in invitations.  I'm sure he knows he isn't wanted.  Saying that, I think his letter was very polite and left no room for misunderstanding.

You and your SIL are from the same generation.  I don't think he owes you any respect due to you being his elder...but you do owe him some consideration since he is married to your daughter and is the father to your grandson.

IMHO he is telling you in a simple sentence how he feels:

The choices that Julie and I make are not indictments of other parent’s choices or choices you made 30 years ago.  These are simply choices we’ve made that we believe are the best for our child.  This is a right that is largely and universally recognized in society. 

The fact that they are largely and universally recognized in our society is the reason why you received so many of the same answers from both grandparents and parents.

His comment:

The email request sent July 31, 2015 set off a series of events that should have never happened.  Julie and I proofed and rewrote the email several times in the days prior to sending that email to reduce the possibilities that conflict would occur as a result of our mutual, reasonable and responsible choice when it came to cocooning Andrew during his first 6 months of vulnerability in this world. 

indicates to me that he and his wife are on the same page and are in agreement to what he is saying to you.

Yes, maybe his letter is a bit long and wordy but his last statement.

  If you’re willing to be a part of a solution that works for all of us, we remain committed to the larger family second only to our family and the health, safety and happiness of Andrew.

tells me that the ball is now in your court and you cannot "force" your wishes onto him and Julie.  You will have to follow their lead and respect their boundaries.

 

Edited by SueSTx
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10 minutes ago, SueSTx said:

Your family might be close, but obviously if you sit around and badmouth SIL he isn't included nor do you want him to be if you are not including him in invitations.  I'm sure he knows he isn't wanted. 

This says EVERYTHING. This is why I feel pushed around by my own ILs.  

Maxine isn't treating her SIL with respect.

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59 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

PS - I am liking the posts because you took the time to reply, not because I agree. 

I am looking forward to your second post and more information, of course we are all only seeing part of the story.  But I do hope that you are really reading the post too, even if you don't agree with them - I really think there is some good advice

Also, just because your SIL and Daughter have their own way of raising their son, doesn't mean that they don't respect you... nor does it deminish your past accomplishements in bringing your family to America... you are a strong proud lady - I don't think they are disrepecting that.

Also, just from my own point of view, my own MIL who never respected or followed our wishes or boundaries is now totally cut out of our lives.  You should know that the #1 reason she is no longer in our lives is because she never repected our decisions regarding our son - it did not matter if she agreed or not, but my husband and I both expected her to respect and follow them...just like we respected the rules at her house... 

I am not saying this will happen but I do want to impress the importance of what your SIL and daughter are saying... they are saying to you that these things are important to them, this is how they want to raise their son and don't belittle them, they are showing through their own actions that they will enforce thier decisions.... and are not willing to budge when it comes to the well being of their child...(wouldn't you want that??)

I just don't want you to end up in my situation or even getting close to it.  Tread carefully, just try keep and open mind and heart - try to step into their shoes.. and I do think Couseling is a good idea...

 

 

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38 minutes ago, skipped said:

I think your SIL might be minimizing the pressure he is putting on you to do exactly what he wants.  Bullying is a strong word, but there still is pressure and a lot of it.  When someone says up front, if you don't do this these are the negative consequences, and the other person has all the power, there is pressure to do exactly what he wants.  It might be his right and he might be right, but he is still pressuring.

The CPR class is another hoop he is pressuring you to take.   Your son IL sounds like a rigid personality.  As I said above, I'd be happy if someone took the class. If they were test adverse, I wouldn't push a test on them.  I personally wouldn't have a problem with doing either of these things, but I don't think it's fair to deny that there is pressure involved.

 

He is rigid!  He said that CPR is like a driving license and like a driving license you need to past the test.  His logic is that it takes 5-6 minutes for the police are ambulance to respond to a 911 call and if the baby is choking and can't breathe that the baby will be brain dead or dead by the time the EMTs come.  He said this is why the state of Texas requires the training and certification for every caretaker in the state.  I told him I would kill myself if I ever hurt the baby and he just sarcastically replies "wouldn't it make more sense to learn how to save the baby and avoid two deaths?"  

We never completed the class or took the test.

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SIL knows he is not wanted.  My husband sent him an email stating this clearly after his 2nd email. 

"We are done with being **** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege."

 

Edited by RoseRed135
guideline 5e

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I am so sorry you two decided to respond this way.  Have you lost the privilege to be a part of Julie and Andrews lives also?

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14 minutes ago, Tobias41 said:

and I do think Couseling is a good idea...

 

 

Agreed 100% !!!     I have told my daughter repeatedly that her husband needs counseling.   Nothing yet. 

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1 minute ago, Maxine2020 said:

Agreed 100% !!!     I have told my daughter repeatedly that her husband needs counseling.   Nothing yet. 

A bartender told me:  when someone says you need counseling, here is a good test if you really need it.  If you say, “that may be a good idea. I will take that under consideration.” Or “that is your opinion.”  You probably don’t need counseling. When you talk about how others need counseling or get angry at the suggestion. You probably do.

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I'm sorry Maxine, but I think members are indicating that you and your husband are the ones needing counseling.  It sounds like SIL and Julie are being very reasonable in their request.

 

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14 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

We never completed the class or took the test.

Whoa. Bad idea, we do as our kids ask or accept no contact. Simple as that.

11 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

SIL knows he is not wanted.  My husband sent him an email stating this clearly after his 2nd email. 

"We are done with being **** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege."

Nobody got to talk like that ^ and have a relationship with us and our minor children. Ever. Our kids wouldn't put up with that ^ either.

3 minutes ago, SueSTx said:

I'm sorry Maxine, but I think members are indicating that you and your husband are the ones needing counseling.  It sounds like SIL and Julie are being very reasonable in their request.

I surely meant counseling for M&M not counseling for J&J.

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Like Sue, I'm also sorry, Maxine, if you're unhappy w/ some of the replies here. Especially if you feel as if members have been "piling on." I think, however, that all just agree that you and DH (and Amy, too) should have handled all this differently. .

Clearly, there are some cultural differences at work and perhaps some differences in "family culture," as well (SIL's FOO - family of origin - as compared to your FOO) But since DD and SIL have the authority over GS (grandson), I'm afraid it's you and yours who will have to find a way to adjust. It can be beautiful, IMO, when a family is so closely invovevd as yours is. But that doesn't mean that John and Julie have to follow suit

Edited by RoseRed135

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26 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

SIL knows he is not wanted.  My husband sent him an email stating this clearly after his 2nd email. 

"We are done with being **** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege."

 

Since DH decided to CO SIL, I don't see how you can expect him and YDD to come to your home w/ GS (grandson) now. IMO, you and DH will have to fix your relationship w/ SIL before anything else can possibly be changed.

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20 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

He is rigid!  He said that CPR is like a driving license and like a driving license you need to past the test.  His logic is that it takes 5-6 minutes for the police are ambulance to respond to a 911 call and if the baby is choking and can't breathe that the baby will be brain dead or dead by the time the EMTs come.  He said this is why the state of Texas requires the training and certification for every caretaker in the state.  I told him I would kill myself if I ever hurt the baby and he just sarcastically replies "wouldn't it make more sense to learn how to save the baby and avoid two deaths?"  

We never completed the class or took the test.

He does sound "rigid"... sigh... But, IMO, he'a also a conscientious dad (and Julie, a conscientious mom) trying to do what's best for GS (maybe overdoing a little). There are GPs here (and elsewhere) who, unfortunately, have to raise their GC b/c the parents can't/won't take care of them (due to drug abuse, etc.) If I had to choose between that and the parent who is a little over-zealous, I'd choose over-zealous every time.

Meanwhile, I don't blame you for not finishing the course if he insisted on the test as "proof" that you could save GS if need be. I just think you need to understand that this meant you and DH wouldn't be babysitting GS and so might not see him as often as you would like.

ETA: Kudos for leading your family out of USSR where you were all so unhappy!

Edited by RoseRed135
accuracy
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1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

There are so many answers for me to reply to and I want to take the time to answer every question.   

I'll start from the top. 

First, I wonder if after a few people have chimed in is it normal for everyone to bandwagon and then pile on?    From the initial reply that concludes with 'get counseling' the rest of the replies seem largely in agreement or one sided against me.  Maybe I did a bad job of explaining more and how the conflict evolved.   

I was surprised that no one saw the letter as offensive.  I don't know if this is 'American' attitude only or my view is unique to my culture.  Jewish immigrants from Belarus (former Soviet Union).   

At least we all agree the letter was long and very formal.  SIL is a communications consultant and former VP so I think this is the way he always communicates. 

So part of the problem is that Gammy is very old and not in good health.  After getting the letter I was very upset and we already had not seen GS in 5 weeks.  We had a plan to say that Gammy was too sick to visit them (they live about 5 miles away) and try to force the SIL to give in and let Julie and Andrew visit over here but without SIL.

So he got real stubborn and kept saying through his wife "that is Gammy is too sick to come over, she should be in the hospital and if so we will take Andrew to her there".    Well, she wasn't that sick and after he found out that we drove to Florida with Gammy we had to give in and visit them at their house.  (more on that later in another post). 

About being the leader of the family.    If it wasn't for me we would have never left the Soviet Union,  I was very unhappy there.  Along with my older sister, her husband (my husband's older brother) my mother, husbands father and 4 children, we all came to Texas.  Other relatives live in New York and Minnesota.    

Many people commented that every other week is a fair arrangement.   Our family is closer than that. In Belarus, we all shared a two room apartment and here in America, my sisters children, and my sister and her husband stop in 5-7 times a week.  My SIL is very independent, he left home when he was 18.  Our oldest daughter Amy, now lives with us.  My sister has two children, 1 moved out about 5 years ago when he was 35, the other is now 35 and still lives at home.    I have always lived with my mother.     Almost every evening we sit around and drink tea and talk about how horrible our son in law is and how he is holding our GS hostage.   Without exception, we are all in agreement about this situation. 

We haven't seen our grandson except on one occasion in the last 15 months (more about that later also)

I have read everyone's point of view but I don't agree.  Maybe after I make my second post, people will understand me and the situation better.      

I didn't read everyone else's reply but responded directly to your post and request for opinions. 

I am NOT an American and no I did not see the letter as offensive.  

Almost every evening we sit around and drink tea and talk about how horrible our son in law is and how he is holding our GS hostage.   Without exception, we are all in agreement about this situation. 

This to me is terrible,  and really nasty.  By fostering gossip and a hatred for the father of your grandchild  for standing by his wife and the needs of his child as per the doctors opinion, no wonder he feels unhappy with the way you are treating him.   

I stand by my earlier post.

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When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

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38 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

SIL knows he is not wanted.  My husband sent him an email stating this clearly after his 2nd email. 

"We are done with being **** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege."

 

well you are just making it worse and opening the door to being cut off and estranged and making your daughters life a nightmare.

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Maxine, I can see how the situation would upsetting for your family, it is very different from the old ways in the old country and not what you expected. But you left for a reason and much of your family came too. I'm sure they are a comfort for you when everything around you is so different. But your SIL is American, all of you are living in America, and he wants to raise his son with American values and independence is one of the values many Americans hold dear. I find it very sad that you have chosen pride over love in dealing with your daughter and her husband and child. What are you gaining by blaming your SIL? What good would it do if posters came on and said SIL sent an offensive letter and he's an awful person? How would that help you fix anything? Personally after reading the letter, I find your SIL rather rigid and controlling but I would put up with that attitude to spend time with my child and grandchild. What matters the most to you? You were offered twice a month but you turned it down, your choice, not something SIL did to you.

Edited by missmm
corrected week to month
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2 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

There are so many answers for me to reply to and I want to take the time to answer every question.   

I'll start from the top. 

First, I wonder if after a few people have chimed in is it normal for everyone to bandwagon and then pile on?    From the initial reply that concludes with 'get counseling' the rest of the replies seem largely in agreement or one sided against me.  Maybe I did a bad job of explaining more and how the conflict evolved.   

I was surprised that no one saw the letter as offensive.  I don't know if this is 'American' attitude only or my view is unique to my culture.  Jewish immigrants from Belarus (former Soviet Union).   

At least we all agree the letter was long and very formal.  SIL is a communications consultant and former VP so I think this is the way he always communicates. 

So part of the problem is that Gammy is very old and not in good health.  After getting the letter I was very upset and we already had not seen GS in 5 weeks.  We had a plan to say that Gammy was too sick to visit them (they live about 5 miles away) and try to force the SIL to give in and let Julie and Andrew visit over here but without SIL.

So he got real stubborn and kept saying through his wife "that is Gammy is too sick to come over, she should be in the hospital and if so we will take Andrew to her there".    Well, she wasn't that sick and after he found out that we drove to Florida with Gammy we had to give in and visit them at their house.  (more on that later in another post). 

About being the leader of the family.    If it wasn't for me we would have never left the Soviet Union,  I was very unhappy there.  Along with my older sister, her husband (my husband's older brother) my mother, husbands father and 4 children, we all came to Texas.  Other relatives live in New York and Minnesota.    

Many people commented that every other week is a fair arrangement.   Our family is closer than that. In Belarus, we all shared a two room apartment and here in America, my sisters children, and my sister and her husband stop in 5-7 times a week.  My SIL is very independent, he left home when he was 18.  Our oldest daughter Amy, now lives with us.  My sister has two children, 1 moved out about 5 years ago when he was 35, the other is now 35 and still lives at home.    I have always lived with my mother.     Almost every evening we sit around and drink tea and talk about how horrible our son in law is and how he is holding our GS hostage.   Without exception, we are all in agreement about this situation. 

We haven't seen our grandson except on one occasion in the last 15 months (more about that later also)

I have read everyone's point of view but I don't agree.  Maybe after I make my second post, people will understand me and the situation better.      

 

1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

He is rigid!  He said that CPR is like a driving license and like a driving license you need to past the test.  His logic is that it takes 5-6 minutes for the police are ambulance to respond to a 911 call and if the baby is choking and can't breathe that the baby will be brain dead or dead by the time the EMTs come.  He said this is why the state of Texas requires the training and certification for every caretaker in the state.  I told him I would kill myself if I ever hurt the baby and he just sarcastically replies "wouldn't it make more sense to learn how to save the baby and avoid two deaths?"  

We never completed the class or took the test.

Your SIL's reasoning is completely sound. You sound like you prefer to be dramatic, rather than logical.

1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

SIL knows he is not wanted.  My husband sent him an email stating this clearly after his 2nd email. 

"We are done with being **** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege."

 

And you've lost the priviledge of being around your grandson. His father is more important in his life than his grandparents. I do find it interesting that you don't mention your daughter in this at all.

54 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

Agreed 100% !!!     I have told my daughter repeatedly that her husband needs counseling.   Nothing yet. 

No, you need counselling, to figure out why there is no room for respecting your SIL and daughter, and why you'd rather have no relationship with them than not have everything your way.

24 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

You've been told, by everyone responding, that you're in the wrong in several places. That does require an apology.

You mentioned you led your family out of Russia. What would have happened if your mother in law had announced that she was head of your family, and it wasn't allowed? Why are you allowed to lead your family, but your SIL and daughter aren't allowed to lead theirs?

You gossip about your SIL. You refuse to even consider respecting him as an adult, father, and husband. No mention of your daughter in any of this.

I suspect you're unhappily going to discover that never seeing your grandson or daughter again, is very much a part of your future. And it won't be your SIL's fault. It will be yours. You planned to attempt to manipulate them into coming to your home by *lying* about Gamma's health, but were caught out before you could put that plan into action. Lying and manipulating automatically puts you in the wrong.

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1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

Totally disagree here. While you don't "have to" apologize, you should. There are serious cultural differences here. Learn to respect those differences. If you expect SIL to go to counseling and he does, he may find the counselor finds him pompous, arrogant and rigid...however, you will really be unpleasantly surprised to find that the counselor will find you to be demanding, meddling, judgmental and selfish. Lying about anything is never a good idea...and it blew up in your face, didn't it.

There is middle ground. "Talking doesn't solve anything" is your statement....and you are right, if all you do is talk....Try listening and making a serious attempt to understand what your DD/SIL are trying to do with their family before you start raging against them. They don't have to agree with you. You can't make them agree with you. 

Your DH needs to reevaluate his stance as well. He's made some colossal errors in judgement. Anyone who waves a gun for any reason is not someone I want around my kids/gkids. I have family members in the military and law enforcement...I've never seen any inappropriate use of weapons (one cousin is a gun collector & avid hunter who makes his own ammo...his weapons are kept in locked cabinets in a locked room). The posturing your FIL has done with the vulgar emails and gun play are inexcusable IMO...he needs to apologize and amend his behavior if he wants to move forward. 

There is a lot going on here on several levels. You prefer to live in a cluster with family, your DD/SIL have made a different choice. Respect their right to live their lives as they see fit...

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3 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

Agreed 100% !!!     I have told my daughter repeatedly that her husband needs counseling.   Nothing yet. 

I think family couseling might be more the way to go, so that all of you are able to understand and resolve your concerns.  And to have someone that is truely independent of the situation and able to hear all sides of the story.

 

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5 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

There are so many answers for me to reply to and I want to take the time to answer every question.   

I'll start from the top. 

First, I wonder if after a few people have chimed in is it normal for everyone to bandwagon and then pile on?    From the initial reply that concludes with 'get counseling' the rest of the replies seem largely in agreement or one sided against me.  Maybe I did a bad job of explaining more and how the conflict evolved.   

I think you might be feeling some of this diappointment as we did not all agree with you, honestly (and I know some one said this) it is rare for all of us to be in alignment with our opinions, often the people in this board get into some very animated debates, in fact (like someone said) this is the first time I have seen so many similar views. 

I was surprised that no one saw the letter as offensive.  I don't know if this is 'American' attitude only or my view is unique to my culture.  Jewish immigrants from Belarus (former Soviet Union).   

I think that it is hard not to read into letters (or into message boards) your own feeling or animations when reading something like a letter or text, I think that is why emoji's have been so popular.. You admit you have had a long history with SIL and it hasn't been great, perhaps some of that is influencing you when you read his letter? As from my own stand point, it was logical and thought out but I did not get very much emotion from it, positive or negative. 

At least we all agree the letter was long and very formal.  SIL is a communications consultant and former VP so I think this is the way he always communicates. 

So part of the problem is that Gammy is very old and not in good health.  After getting the letter I was very upset and we already had not seen GS in 5 weeks.  We had a plan to say that Gammy was too sick to visit them (they live about 5 miles away) and try to force the SIL to give in and let Julie and Andrew visit over here but without SIL.

So he got real stubborn and kept saying through his wife "that is Gammy is too sick to come over, she should be in the hospital and if so we will take Andrew to her there".    Well, she wasn't that sick and after he found out that we drove to Florida with Gammy we had to give in and visit them at their house.  (more on that later in another post). 

Just curious, is there a reason why visiting them at their house is an issue? Is it a long distance? Or is it just an inconvience? They have said they wanted to have a nesting period, I don't think that is abnormal for new parents especially with their first child. But take that out of the equation, with my own child traveling was always a hastle to pack up all his things, I think you live close to them, so I could see where that might be part of their reasoning as well.  I get the feeling, especially since you are looking for excuses (like Gammy is too sick), that you would rather just not do something in order to defy SIL... That you will instantly chose the opposite of whatever his opinion might be...That Might not be the case, again I am only getting part of the story... 

About being the leader of the family.    If it wasn't for me we would have never left the Soviet Union,  I was very unhappy there.  Along with my older sister, her husband (my husband's older brother) my mother, husbands father and 4 children, we all came to Texas.  Other relatives live in New York and Minnesota. 

I don't think anyone is saying that your past accomplishments are not impressive, they are. I cannot imagine a move like that! 

Many people commented that every other week is a fair arrangement.   Our family is closer than that. In Belarus, we all shared a two room apartment and here in America, my sisters children, and my sister and her husband stop in 5-7 times a week.  My SIL is very independent, he left home when he was 18.  Our oldest daughter Amy, now lives with us.  My sister has two children, 1 moved out about 5 years ago when he was 35, the other is now 35 and still lives at home.    I have always lived with my mother.     Almost every evening we sit around and drink tea and talk about how horrible our son in law is and how he is holding our GS hostage.   Without exception, we are all in agreement about this situation. 

Gossiping about the situation, rudly, behind SIL back is really think this is the wrong attitude to have, it sounds like that  you (and Mom) will only be happy if SIL has zero opinions on how he raises his son.  That is no way to treat anyone, especially not someone who really seems to want what is best, granted in his mind, for his own child. Sitting around and gossiping means that you are part of the problem and not the solution, as SIL will never have a chance with that kind of behavior. 

We haven't seen our grandson except on one occasion in the last 15 months (more about that later also)

Why is that? Is it because you haven't been allowed too? Did his parents say you cannot see your Grandchild? Or because you chose not too because you don't like the bounaries your SIL and daughter have put around visiting the grandchild? If it is the latter, then that is your own choice.  You choose not to see Grandchild because you do not want to see him on you Grandson's terms, 

I have read everyone's point of view but I don't agree.  Maybe after I make my second post, people will understand me and the situation better.      

I am sure your will still not approve of my post, and it might sound unkind - it was not meant to be. I see you as a stalk of corn in the wind, where many of the cornstalks chose to bend with the ebb and flow of the wind, yet you chose to remain rigid and defiant, when it might be much easier on yourself and everyone involved, if you let go of past assumptions and bent a little with the wind... 

 

 

Edited by Tobias41
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