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Maxine2020

1st post MIL and SIL Troubles

206 posts in this topic

Tobias they are 5 miles away.  We haven't seen then (except once) since my husband sent the email to SIL and everyone else in the family.   It's all covered in "2nd post MIL and SIL troubles" 

 

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3 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

Tobias they are 5 miles away.  We haven't seen then (except once) since my husband sent the email to SIL and everyone else in the family.   It's all covered in "2nd post MIL and SIL troubles" 

 

So, since distance isn't the issue, Gammy's health is obviously not the issue, what is the reasoning for your refusal to visit them?

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Just now, ImpishMom said:

So, since distance isn't the issue, Gammy's health is obviously not the issue, what is the reasoning for your refusal to visit them?

We did visit them twice in August 2016 but after the second visit, SIL wrote his letter and then my husband wrote his.  Since then we don't have any contact with son in law or grandson.  Only daughter. 

 

 

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And if they do move out of state, you will probably loose contact with her also

 

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There is another post that explains all of this.  "2nd post MIL and SIL troubles" 

I am going to take a break because I am overwhelmed and stressed from this right now.  I'll be back tomorrow. 

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3 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

We did visit them twice in August 2016 but after the second visit, SIL wrote his letter and then my husband wrote his.  Since then we don't have any contact with son in law or grandson.  Only daughter. 

 

 

You posted that you refused to go to their house, and planned to manipulate them into coming to yours. That's why I'm confused, as to why, since it's only 5 miles, it mattered who's house you were at.

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I totally agree with Tobias' assessment that you seem to be doing things just to defy your SIL.   Most of the things you are fighting him on make no sense.  I can only suspect that it's because  YOU always were the one in control and the head of the family.  You lead everyone out of Russia, You are use to being in control.  But your AC is married now and you are in the USA-  it's time to change.  It was a tough transiftion for me when my AC married and I no longer had control.  We all have to get use to changes in relationships.  They happen.  I think anyone tough enough to go through what you have gone through, is tough enough to make the transition.  It's just a matter of agreeing that the transition is necessary.  Sorry, you are no longer in charge.  You need to somehow reconcile with that. 

Edited by skipped
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3 minutes ago, skipped said:

I totally agree with Tobias' assessment that you seem to be doing things just to defy your SIL.   Most of the things you are fighting him on make no sense.  I can only suspect that it's because  YOU always were the one in control and the head of the family.  You lead everyone out of Russia, You are use to being in control.  But your AC is married now and you are in the USA-  it's time to change.  It was a tough transiftion for me when my AC married and I no longer had control.  We all have to get use to changes in relationships.  They happen.  I think anyone tough enough to go through what you have gone through, is tough enough to make the transition.  It's just a matter of agreeing that the transition is necessary.  Sorry, you are no longer in charge.  You need to somehow reconcile with that. 

This. And, you will have to reconcile yourself to the fact that you, your dh, and your eldest dd have damaged this relationship and it may be permanent.

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Question, @Maxine2020...what were your DM & MIL like when you first married and had kids? Were they as demanding & controlling as you seem to be here? Did your mother treat your DH so hostilely? Do you expect your DD/SIL/GS to live with you? 

I'm a loner by nature and very independent...after DH passed (nearly 3 years ago) I am very comfortable living alone. I dealt with BIL & an Uncle inquiring into my financial situation without offending either while telling them I'm good...I bought a new car without anyone's "help"...not my first rodeo. My own mom was one of those whose go-to line was "What do you want to do THAT for?" It took me years to break away from that voice in my head. And always encouraged my kids to follow their bliss...all 3 are successful in their own right in competitive fields...

Oh, and not having control...Have your only son join the military (he was 20, totally his decision, but he had my full support). My role in his life changed to 'next of kin'...I no longer had any authority in his life. He's a career man...the Navy owns him for another 2-1/2 years...he'll be 40, and I still won't have authority...he has a wife and 5 kids...

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6 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

And that is why PIL's (and IL's) get CO (cut off) of their AC/CIL and GK's lives. It's a permanent solution. Please understand NO ONE is perfect. NOT even YOU nor your DH. We ALL make mistakes. We are ALL human.  With that attitude that you do NOT have to apologize you can say good bye to your DD/SIL and GK's. There will NEVER be a good relationship let alone a healthy one with your attitude about apologies.

Personally I am surprised you have not already been CO by your SIL. Especially knowing how every day you sit with family and tear him apart. Family is supposed to support you and treat you better than strangers, even in your mistakes, which is what your adult SIL is doing. You could learn a thing or two from him. I would never let anyone near my children who tore me apart because then you'd be having that same mindset polluting my kids and turning them against me. That would never happen in my world.

You either want a relationship or you don't. It sounds like you don't. Cutting them off because they don't do what YOU want is your choice. Not theirs. Again, you raised your kids. They get to raise theirs. You can CO them but do not be surprised when the tables turn and you decide you want a relationship but they have decided to keep going with the CO and no longer will allow you in their lives at all.

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It seems that at this point, every thing you and DH do is another reason for you to apologize for your horrid behavior toward your SIL and your DD and I am only on page 2 so far.

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10 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

I was surprised that no one saw the letter as offensive.  I don't know if this is 'American' attitude only or my view is unique to my culture.  Jewish immigrants from Belarus (former Soviet Union).   

I am another that do not think the letter was offensive at all.  I think he was trying to be very clear and was trying to maintain a respectful tone, while making sure there was no room for misunderstanding.

10 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

 After getting the letter I was very upset and we already had not seen GS in 5 weeks.  We had a plan to say that Gammy was too sick to visit them (they live about 5 miles away) and try to force the SIL to give in and let Julie and Andrew visit over here but without SIL.

You will never progress or move forward if you are trying to manipulate or "win"

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9 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

Agreed 100% !!!     I have told my daughter repeatedly that her husband needs counseling.   Nothing yet. 

Maxine, you and your DH are the problem here....not Julie's husband

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9 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

But that may be part of the problem. They may feel that they have apologized when they were out of line, but you and DH won't do the same. And while you don't think you owe them an apology for anything, they probably think you do - for not having accepted/respected their parenting decisions and for DH's having publicized your issues.

I know what you mean about "the less (you) say the better." But it wouldn't take a lot of talking. Just a simple, "I'm sorry I did this/that/the other. It won't happen again."

However, no doubt, DH would need to apologize, too. And after all that has gone on, so far, I admit, at this point, SIL might not be ready to forgive.

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18 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

When it comes to SIL I feel the less I say the better.  Talking doesn't solve anything.  He only finds more things to be upset about.  I think it is why he uses email.

They have had to apologize to us several times.  We do not have to apologize to them for anything.   

Apologizing isn't always admitting you are wrong. It is also acknowledging the other persons feelings. For example, "I am sorry when I did  ______, you felt ______. I didn't mean to ________. I will try to do better" or something similar. A "Will you please forgive me" goes a long way too.

I am curious why they had to apologize to you and yet you continue to feel you don't owe them any apologies. How did you react to their apologies?

My DH and I apologized to his parents even though we were not wrong. It was acknowledging they felt a certain way after we did something they thought we should have done something else. In our situation they were angry at us for not calling them for Easter to come over and color eggs. We were invited to a friends house that particular year and PIL's felt left out. It, honestly, never even crossed my mind to call them. The phone works BOTH ways, which we pointed out to them. Rather than call us up, they chose to be offended that we didn't call them. BUT we apologized and told them, we were sorry they felt left out. We were invited to do something with friends and did. Then we reminded them the phone works both ways. They could easily have called us to talk to us about it. Instead they chose carry a grudge and wait something like 2 years before telling us this still bothered them. So it was about 2 years after the fact we apologized, which we did as soon as we found out the problem. BUT we were not wrong in choosing to be with friends instead of them. They had an expectation they wanted us to meet without even telling us, like we are mind readers.

Your SIL has told you out right what is expected. No games, no hidden agendas. I will say it again, your SIL and DD are more adult than you/DH. You could learn a LOT from them if you allow yourself to grow and change. What worked 30 years ago, 15 years ago, even last year doesn't have to be the status quo for today. If they've already talked about moving, they are already looking into options to do so. You truly should consider trying to make things right BEFORE they move.

What will you do when Amy marries an American with the same sense of independence?

The alternative is, you could grow to be an old, lonely, bitter couple and you will have no one to blame but yourselves. Pride and arrogance has led to many a downfall. One sided relationships rarely work. Most folks will tolerate only so much disrespect before a total and permanent CO when there has not been any reciprocation in a relationship. A person can push forward and tolerate more when they see one is at least trying in a relationship. I can't imagine that you and DH have never had to apologize to each other having been married so long.

 

Edited by Cupcake55
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12 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

However, no doubt, DH would need to apologize, too. And after all that has gone on, so far, I admit, at this point, SIL might not be ready to forgive.

I think you're right.  It may have gone on for too long and too far.  After 14 months of no contact with SIL or grandson, we showed up on Andrews 2nd birthday without telling my daughter first.  Son in law was furious and yelled at us to leave.  He apologized by email the next day but said our surprise visit was another indication of how we don't respect our daughter as an adult.   

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12 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

 I can't imagine that you and DH have never had to apologize to each other having been married so long.

 

Never.  My husband and my family have always supported me 100%.  No one has ever yelled at me until SIL did.     

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8 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

I think you're right.  It may have gone on for too long and too far.  After 14 months of no contact with SIL or grandson, we showed up on Andrews 2nd birthday without telling my daughter first.  Son in law was furious and yelled at us to leave.  He apologized by email the next day but said our surprise visit was another indication of how we don't respect our daughter as an adult.   

Why are you focused on him yelling?  Why not look also at the fact that you had not been in contact with him in over a year and yet wanted to self invite into his home on the day of his child’s birthday? In your last visit you refused to speak or acknowledge him so why would that (I’m assuming) repeat performance be desired as a dark cloud on such a happy day? 

 

Imp asked you sever times I believe how you would feel about someone refusing to speak to you in your own home. I am very interested to hear your answer to that question, please do think about it and honestly answer. 

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I understand there is a cultural difference here, but you have been here 27 years and must know something about invitations.  You showed up after 14 months with no contact uninvited as far as he knew to his son's Birthday and took him by surprise.  I'm sure part of his reaction was simple reflex.  He did apologize the next day and I do feel that showing up for any party uninvited is disrespectful to both your adult daughter and SIL.

You have never apologized for any of your actions. Fil waved a gun and has never apologized for that or for his rude letter.

No one in my MILs family had ever disagreed with her openly before I came along either because she had a hissy if anyone did.  She was a mean girl through and through and I was an independent individual who never let her treat me badly.  She did eventually apologize when she had dementia and told me that I was a good wife for hubby.  She was sincere when she said it.  Why did it take her 35 years to admit it and apologize?

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17 hours ago, Mame925 said:
6 minutes ago, redpoppies said:

Why are you focused on him yelling?  Why not look also at the fact that you had not been in contact with him in over a year and yet wanted to self invite into his home on the day of his child’s birthday? In your last visit you refused to speak or acknowledge him so why would that (I’m assuming) repeat performance be desired as a dark cloud on such a happy day? 

 

Imp asked you sever times I believe how you would feel about someone refusing to speak to you in your own home. I am very interested to hear your answer to that question, please do think about it and honestly answer. 

Question, @Maxine2020...what were your DM & MIL like when you first married and had kids? Were they as demanding & controlling as you seem to be here? Did your mother treat your DH so hostilely? Do you expect your DD/SIL/GS to live with you?

No one can make me talk to anyone.  I have anxiety and after the letter it took me weeks to even be in the same room with him.     SIL yelled at us and no one ever did that before. 

Seems like he should just forget about the email my husband sent him and just move on.  Talking about the past doesn't help.  

We had presents for Andrew and already missed his first and second birthdays.     

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1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

No one can make me talk to anyone.  I have anxiety and after the letter it took me weeks to even be in the same room with him.     SIL yelled at us and no one ever did that before. 

Seems like he should just forget about the email my husband sent him and just move on.  Talking about the past doesn't help.  

We had presents for Andrew and already missed his first and second birthdays.     

So, you want him to forget every wrong thing you and your dh have done, while continuing to gossip about him, blame him for whenever elderly Gammy dies, and for everything that you dislike.

You do see the hypocrisy in that, right? That you're demanding of him things you won't even remotely consider doing?

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8 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

So, you want him to forget every wrong thing you and your dh have done, while continuing to gossip about him, blame him for whenever elderly Gammy dies, and for everything that you dislike.

 

Did I miss something? Where did Maxine say she would blame him when the sad time comes that Gammy dies?

ETA: Never mind. I see it's in her other thread.

Edited by RoseRed135

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4 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

No one can make me talk to anyone.  I have anxiety and after the letter it took me weeks to even be in the same room with him.     SIL yelled at us and no one ever did that before. 

Seems like he should just forget about the email my husband sent him and just move on.  Talking about the past doesn't help.  

We had presents for Andrew and already missed his first and second birthdays.     

To the bolded....you guys have done NOTHING to show him you're willing to change. Not one thing. You want him to forget everything and let you continue acting the way you have been, which is what has things so far off in the rails in the first place. Even if he was struck with amnesia today and forgot all about everything that happened, your astounding lack of insight into this, questionable judgement and unwillingness to change will have it right back off the rails in no time.  

If you want him to move on, apologizing is a good place to start. There is not one human being on this planet who is above apologizing when they've done something they shouldn't have. 

Edited by NewMama
typos
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57 minutes ago, NewMama said:

To the bolded....you guys have done NOTHING to show him you're willing to change. Not one thing. You want him to forget everything and let you continue acting the way you have been, which is what has things so far off in the rails in the first place. Even if he was struck with amnesia today and forgot all about everything that happened, your astounding lack of insight into this, questionable judgement and unwillingness to change will have it right back off the rails in no time.  

If you want him to move on, apologizing is a good place to start. There is not one human being on this planet who is above apologizing when they've done something they shouldn't have. 

ITA, apologizing is a GREAT place to START! Except Maxine thinks she is above apologizing since she has NEVER had to do it before, not even to her own DH, which she herself stated.

 

Edited by Cupcake55

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Maxine, you said you came to America 27 years ago from Eastern Europe. You said you hated it. What did you hate about it? What was your breaking point on why you decided to move the whole family out of Eastern Europe? Why did you move to America out of ALL the places in the world, why here?

Edited by Cupcake55
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