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Maxine2020

1st post MIL and SIL Troubles

206 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, Cupcake55 said:

Maxine, you said you came to America 27 years ago from Eastern Europe. You said you hated it. What did you hate about it? What was your breaking point on why you decided to move the whole family out of Eastern Europe? Why did you move to America out of ALL the places in the world, why here?

America has easy program for Jewish people to come here.   We had to wait in long lines to buy shoes and sometimes you couldn't get them in your size so you traded for shoes in your size. Or you trade sausage for chicken.  Someone once called us Jews while we were waiting in line.   We had to be careful not to give children jewish names or there would be discrimination.  

We knew that song "I want to live in America... everything free in America"    It's true.  My mother and my husbands father never worked here but got medicade and social security and they pay us to look after them.  My FIL needed expensive heart surgery for $200,000, the government paid for it.    This never happens anywhere else. 

 

Edited by Maxine2020
mixed medicare with medicade

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Are you sure all of these things will still be free when you and your husband need them?

I was recently in the hospital two different times and the government sure didn't pay for anything for me.

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3 minutes ago, SueSTx said:

Are you sure all of these things will still be free when you and your husband need them?

I was recently in the hospital two different times and the government sure didn't pay for anything for me.

That's exactly what SIL complains about.  He says he's been working and paying taxes since he was 14 and by the time he retires he won't have any benefits for himself.  

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22 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

America has easy program for Jewish people to come here.   We had to wait in long lines to buy shoes and sometimes you couldn't get them in your size so you traded for shoes in your size. Or you trade sausage for chicken.  Someone once called us Jews while we were waiting in line.   We had to be careful not to give children jewish names or there would be discrimination.  

We knew that song "I want to live in America... everything free in America"    It's true.  My mother and my husbands father never worked here but got medicade and social security and they pay us to look after them.  My FIL needed expensive heart surgery for $200,000, the government paid for it.    This never happens anywhere else. 

 

I'm sorry about what you went through in your original country, including the religious/ethnic discrimination you had to face. I'm glad you found your way here, instead. Also glad that you appreciate the benefits of Medicaid and Social Security. :) 

Hopefully, these benefits will, in fact, still be there when SIL retires. Especially since retirement age isn't far off for him. But I know many Americans are worried about the future of these benefits. No doubt, one of the reasons SIL wants to be cautious about what he and YDD spend on others is he may feel that, in they end, he and she may have to fund their own healthcare. I can understand his concern, can you?

21 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

That's exactly what SIL complains about.  He says he's been working and paying taxes since he was 14 and by the time he retires he won't have any benefits for himself.  

 

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22 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

America has easy program for Jewish people to come here.   We had to wait in long lines to buy shoes and sometimes you couldn't get them in your size so you traded for shoes in your size. Or you trade sausage for chicken.  Someone once called us Jews while we were waiting in line.   We had to be careful not to give children jewish names or there would be discrimination.  

We knew that song "I want to live in America... everything free in America"    It's true.  My mother and my husbands father never worked here but got medicade and social security and they pay us to look after them.  My FIL needed expensive heart surgery for $200,000, the government paid for it.    This never happens anywhere else. 

 

I think you would receive Medicaid, but I don't think you would get social security if you never worked.  You have to work to collect Social Security (or have a spouse that worked)

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What about SSI? Would that be possible?

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I wanted to address the concept of 'everything free in America'. Love the 'West Side Story' reference by the way.  But I find it very interesting that you are using lyrics from "America", which is literally a song about culture clash in a group of friends. It's about the positives and negatives about living in America. But the reality is that not everything is free. In fact, there is very little free. We have our freedom, yes. Which is a huge thing and one not to be taken for granted. That is the motivating factor so many immigrants have for coming to America in the first place. 

But let's be honest. The services that you are getting are not free. They may be 'free' to YOU, but someone is paying for them. Including your SIL. 

You keep mentioning that your SIL should pay for your medical care should you not have insurance and the government doesn't cover it all. I have a lump in my throat every single time you say something like that. Why are you ignoring the fact that SIL is already paying for all of his own family's medical expenses, be it in insurance premiums or co-payments, prescriptions, out of network expenses, etc. Add to that regular bills, saving for their retirement, saving for their child(ren)'s college expenses. You speak as if SIL owes you so that you don't have to pay. Never mind the fact that he has a family of his own to provide for. When you expect him to pay for your expenses, you are literally taking money away from your DD and GS. 

Another thing that sticks out to me is your insistence that your family expectations and historical observances must be followed. You left your county of origin 27 years ago. You left for a reason. Clearly there are parts of that existence that you wanted to maintain. And no one is stopping you from maintaining those things within your own immediate family. If Amy wants to follow you, that is her right. If Julie doesn't, that is her right. You brought them to America for a lot of reasons. But you can't keep ignoring the fact that Julie has chosen her own path and it doesn't mesh with yours. 

And just as you had a desire to find a better world for your family, Julie has a desire to be the matriarch of her own family. To make decisions independent of her FOO, of her parents. Why is it that you could turn your back on your FIL (because you didn't like him) but you can't see the hypocrisy of expecting your DD not to do the same when pushed into a corner? If family is so important, why was it ok for you to turn your back on your FIL in the first place? After all, you married all of DH's family right? Doesn't that mean that you should have taken care of FIL, even if you didn't want to do so?  That IS the expectation you have set for your SIL. You expect him to do all of the things you denied your own FIL. How does that work?

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16 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

What about SSI? Would that be possible?

Yes, it would if the person was disabled.

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16 minutes ago, RoseRed135 said:

Yes, it would if the person was disabled.

SSI is for those who paid into it. SSDI is for the disabled. 

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I'm a little late to the party here, and I am sure that some of the things I am going to say will have already been said by others, but I wanted to add my thoughts.

"Our Child, Our Choices". - What your SIL said in that letter is absolutely true.  You may not agree with the choices they make for their child, and that is ok - you don't have to agree.  But you DO need to respect their choices as parents if you want to have contact with your grandson and any other children they may have.  As parents, they get to decide who is around their child and under what circumstances.  The parents set the parameters.  So you have a choice to make - you can abide by their parameters and see your grandchild, or you can choose not to abide by them, and not see your grandchild.  Those are your choices - you don't get any others.  As frustrating as it may be for you, you do not have any say in whether or not they bring their child around you.  Your best bet is to keep your thoughts to yourself, and take every opportunity they offer to spend time with your grandson.

As far as the letter your SIL sent:  please keep in mind that the letter was from both your SIL and your daughter.  He made that very clear in his letter that these were not just his decisions, but THEIR decisions.  Don't put the blame solely on your SIL.  I thought this letter was very well thought out and well written.  You should feel lucky that they obviously spent a lot of time talking this out and thinking about what to say to you.  They left the door open for more open communication and to try to mend the rift.  A lot of families wouldn't even get that chance - they would be cut off and that is that.  Your daughter and SIL are willing and trying to have a good relationship with you.  If you want to have a good relationship with them, you need to stop thinking about what you want, and think about what they want.  It's not about you - it's about what they feel is best for their child.  If you keep pushing, things will get worse, not better.  Believe me, I speak from experience.

My son (and adult now) was the first grandchild on both sides.  Long story short, my MIL thought that she would have a say in how we raised him.  I don't know where she ever got this idea, because we never let her believe this was the case.  She did many things that crossed boundaries and that we had asked her to please not do.  But she continued, no matter how many times we requested, and then told her outright to stop.  The end result?  She stopped getting invited over to visit, stopped be asked to school functions, and stopped being able to see her grandchildren except for a few times a year.  My 2 kids are her only 2 grandchildren, and their relationship with her is not close.  And it is all her doing - because she felt is was more important to be right than to respect the parent's wishes.

Please rethink your behavior before the same thing happens to you.

 

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26 minutes ago, mainegirl said:

I'm a little late to the party here, and I am sure that some of the things I am going to say will have already been said by others, but I wanted to add my thoughts.

"Our Child, Our Choices". - What your SIL said in that letter is absolutely true.  You may not agree with the choices they make for their child, and that is ok - you don't have to agree.  But you DO need to respect their choices as parents if you want to have contact with your grandson and any other children they may have.  As parents, they get to decide who is around their child and under what circumstances.  The parents set the parameters.  So you have a choice to make - you can abide by their parameters and see your grandchild, or you can choose not to abide by them, and not see your grandchild.  Those are your choices - you don't get any others.  As frustrating as it may be for you, you do not have any say in whether or not they bring their child around you.  Your best bet is to keep your thoughts to yourself, and take every opportunity they offer to spend time with your grandson.

As far as the letter your SIL sent:  please keep in mind that the letter was from both your SIL and your daughter.  He made that very clear in his letter that these were not just his decisions, but THEIR decisions.  Don't put the blame solely on your SIL.  I thought this letter was very well thought out and well written.  You should feel lucky that they obviously spent a lot of time talking this out and thinking about what to say to you.  They left the door open for more open communication and to try to mend the rift.  A lot of families wouldn't even get that chance - they would be cut off and that is that.  Your daughter and SIL are willing and trying to have a good relationship with you.  If you want to have a good relationship with them, you need to stop thinking about what you want, and think about what they want.  It's not about you - it's about what they feel is best for their child.  If you keep pushing, things will get worse, not better.  Believe me, I speak from experience.

My son (and adult now) was the first grandchild on both sides.  Long story short, my MIL thought that she would have a say in how we raised him.  I don't know where she ever got this idea, because we never let her believe this was the case.  She did many things that crossed boundaries and that we had asked her to please not do.  But she continued, no matter how many times we requested, and then told her outright to stop.  The end result?  She stopped getting invited over to visit, stopped be asked to school functions, and stopped being able to see her grandchildren except for a few times a year.  My 2 kids are her only 2 grandchildren, and their relationship with her is not close.  And it is all her doing - because she felt is was more important to be right than to respect the parent's wishes.

Please rethink your behavior before the same thing happens to you.

 

It isn't the best bet for some grandparents- Some parents simply cannot meet their adult children's expectations and cannot navigate the relationship anymore once a baby comes along- Deciding to love each other from a distance can be a healthy decision -- for the baby, for all involved-

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4 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

It isn't the best bet for some grandparents- Some parents simply cannot meet their adult children's expectations and cannot navigate the relationship anymore once a baby comes along- Deciding to love each other from a distance can be a healthy decision -- for the baby, for all involved-

If they want to see the child, ever, it is their best bet of doing so.

That's *if*.

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1 minute ago, ImpishMom said:

If they want to see the child, ever, it is their best bet of doing so.

That's *if*.

That's up to each individual grandparent to decide- Some will choose not to, and have chosen wisely-

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25 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

That's up to each individual grandparent to decide- Some will choose not to, and have chosen wisely-

Agreed, but Maxime has asked how to get around her SIL.

She *wants* to see her gs. She DOESN'T want to change, apologize, or abide by anything other than what she wants.

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2 hours ago, mainegirl said:

I'm a little late to the party here, and I am sure that some of the things I am going to say will have already been said by others, but I wanted to add my thoughts.

"Our Child, Our Choices". - What your SIL said in that letter is absolutely true.  You may not agree with the choices they make for their child, and that is ok - you don't have to agree.  But you DO need to respect their choices as parents if you want to have contact with your grandson and any other children they may have.  As parents, they get to decide who is around their child and under what circumstances.  The parents set the parameters.  So you have a choice to make - you can abide by their parameters and see your grandchild, or you can choose not to abide by them, and not see your grandchild.  Those are your choices - you don't get any others.  As frustrating as it may be for you, you do not have any say in whether or not they bring their child around you.  Your best bet is to keep your thoughts to yourself, and take every opportunity they offer to spend time with your grandson.

As far as the letter your SIL sent:  please keep in mind that the letter was from both your SIL and your daughter.  He made that very clear in his letter that these were not just his decisions, but THEIR decisions.  Don't put the blame solely on your SIL.  I thought this letter was very well thought out and well written.  You should feel lucky that they obviously spent a lot of time talking this out and thinking about what to say to you.  They left the door open for more open communication and to try to mend the rift.  A lot of families wouldn't even get that chance - they would be cut off and that is that.  Your daughter and SIL are willing and trying to have a good relationship with you.  If you want to have a good relationship with them, you need to stop thinking about what you want, and think about what they want.  It's not about you - it's about what they feel is best for their child.  If you keep pushing, things will get worse, not better.  Believe me, I speak from experience.

My son (and adult now) was the first grandchild on both sides.  Long story short, my MIL thought that she would have a say in how we raised him.  I don't know where she ever got this idea, because we never let her believe this was the case.  She did many things that crossed boundaries and that we had asked her to please not do.  But she continued, no matter how many times we requested, and then told her outright to stop.  The end result?  She stopped getting invited over to visit, stopped be asked to school functions, and stopped being able to see her grandchildren except for a few times a year.  My 2 kids are her only 2 grandchildren, and their relationship with her is not close.  And it is all her doing - because she felt is was more important to be right than to respect the parent's wishes.

Please rethink your behavior before the same thing happens to you.

 

Well said, IMO, mainegirl!

And welcome back! We haven't seen you in almost a year! Some things have changed, of course, since then, especially since there was an upgrade in 2016. For that reason, you may want to look at the following GP.com thread, even though you didn't "just join":

 

Also, you might want to check out your current "permissions" as a member. Some of them have changed/increased:

 

 

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1 hour ago, ImpishMom said:

Agreed, but Maxime has asked how to get around her SIL.

She *wants* to see her gs. She DOESN'T want to change, apologize, or abide by anything other than what she wants.

Do you, personally, believe any grandparent who fits the description above wants to see their grandchild?

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3 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Do you, personally, believe any grandparent who fits the description above wants to see their grandchild?

I personally believe they *shouldn't*, but different ppl tolerate different things. Myself, I would never have had anything to do w/Maxime or her dh after the gun waving incident. But Maxime asked how to see her gs. mainegirl laid out a very reasonable solution.

It boils down to Maxime deciding what's more important to her. Scapegoating her SIL and blaming him for everything, or a relationship w/her gs.

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1 minute ago, ImpishMom said:

I personally believe they *shouldn't*, but different ppl tolerate different things. Myself, I would never have had anything to do w/Maxime or her dh after the gun waving incident. But Maxime asked how to see her gs. mainegirl laid out a very reasonable solution.

It boils down to Maxime deciding what's more important to her. Scapegoating her SIL and blaming him for everything, or a relationship w/her gs.

I will mention again that in the beginning Maxine and her family made efforts- I will mention once again that her son inlaw is in part responsible- 

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13 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I will mention again that in the beginning Maxine and her family made efforts- I will mention once again that her son inlaw is in part responsible- 

And again I ask, what efforts? I've read and reread. If you can highlight somewhere that you think is Maxine and her family making efforts, please do, b/c myself and everyone else seems to have missed it.

How is he responsible for his FIL waving a gun at him? His MIL switching to Russian to insult him in his presence? His inlaws sitting around, slagging him over tea? Blaming him for the death of an elderly woman that hasn't even happened yet? MIL being in *his* home and refusing to acknowledge his existence? How about his inlaws sending him an email, cursing him out, insulting him and COing him? The fact that his MIL says she never has to apologize? Or maybe it was over a year after they CO *him*, when they rolled up to crash his son's 2nd birthday party?

Which, exactly, do you consider an effort on the part of the inlaws? Which do you think the SIL is responsible for?

Frankly, the only effort I've seen in any of this to repair the relationship is on the behalf of the SIL. The emails that Maxine finds so insulting, I see as a huge olive branch and attempt to repair things. Instead, he got a response with cursing and a CO.

 

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21 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I will mention again that in the beginning Maxine and her family made efforts- I will mention once again that her son inlaw is in part responsible- 

There are two sides to every story, of course, and this SIL is certainly responsible for his part in this. However, SIL made several overtures to allow Maxine to see the GS...she flatly refused any compromise.

Deflecting blame away from Maxine's words & actions changes nothing.

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11 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

There are two sides to every story, of course, and this SIL is certainly responsible for his part in this. However, SIL made several overtures to allow Maxine to see the GS...she flatly refused any compromise.

Deflecting blame away from Maxine's words & actions changes nothing.

Pointing out that Maxine indicated that she and her family put forth effort and support in the beginning isn't deflecting- It's bringing attention to a fact- It isn't the main focus of the discussion, nonetheless, it is equally as important as the rest-

I don't blame her for not wanting to navigate a relationship with her son in-law- That's her decision to make- At the same time I don't blame her son in-law for wanting what he wants for his child- That's his decision to make- They both tried, it didn't work out- Both deserve credit for their efforts, both got a bit over the top and out of line-

It happens-

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5 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I don't blame her for not wanting to navigate a relationship with her son in-law-

Tell me what you think the SIL's level of responsibility in this situation is...I'm not seeing it.

 

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8 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Pointing out that Maxine indicated that she and her family put forth effort and support in the beginning isn't deflecting- It's bringing attention to a fact- It isn't the main focus of the discussion, nonetheless, it is equally as important as the rest-

I don't blame her for not wanting to navigate a relationship with her son in-law- That's her decision to make- At the same time I don't blame her son in-law for wanting what he wants for his child- That's his decision to make- They both tried, it didn't work out- Both deserve credit for their efforts, both got a bit over the top and out of line-

It happens-

Again, if you could post the quotes from the OP where she tried, where she made any efforts at all would be helpful because we are not seeing those efforts. The one quote you posted where she didn't want him to think all was OK between them, so she didn't talk to her SIL at all, was the 2nd part of a sentence where she said she REFUSED to talk to him at all...that is not trying.

Several of us have asked you repeatedly to post quotes where OP has 'tried' and "made efforts" yet you refuse to do so. WHY?

 

Edited by Cupcake55

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35 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

And again I ask, what efforts? I've read and reread. If you can highlight somewhere that you think is Maxine and her family making efforts, please do, b/c myself and everyone else seems to have missed it.

How is he responsible for his FIL waving a gun at him? His MIL switching to Russian to insult him in his presence? His inlaws sitting around, slagging him over tea? Blaming him for the death of an elderly woman that hasn't even happened yet? MIL being in *his* home and refusing to acknowledge his existence? How about his inlaws sending him an email, cursing him out, insulting him and COing him? The fact that his MIL says she never has to apologize? Or maybe it was over a year after they CO *him*, when they rolled up to crash his son's 2nd birthday party?

Which, exactly, do you consider an effort on the part of the inlaws? Which do you think the SIL is responsible for?

Frankly, the only effort I've seen in any of this to repair the relationship is on the behalf of the SIL. The emails that Maxine finds so insulting, I see as a huge olive branch and attempt to repair things. Instead, he got a response with cursing and a CO.

 

I don't view the son in-law as you do and I don't see Maxine as being completely in the wrong-

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I don't view the son in-law as you do and I don't see Maxine as being completely in the wrong-

 

 

 

So you've said....and you've been asked to explain 

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