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Maxine2020

1st post MIL and SIL Troubles

206 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Maxine2020 said:

I wanted to clear a few things up here I see in the thread.

We all actually got along before the TDAP shot request.    John and Julie even allowed Amy to join them on their most recent trip in Europe for a week.  They spent a few days in Paris together, then the french countryside, drove to SILs friends in Germany, and on to Brussels for a few days. 

The whole TDAP shot thing was strange, because at first Amy was angry because SIL offered to pay, then she sent him the letter that was all of this anti-vax information and told him that he should be more concerned about hurting Andrew with the vaccine.  But then SIl remembered that Amy had gotten a number of vaccines before she went traveling around the world including the TDAP vaccine some 4 years ago.  At that time Julie confronted Amy and said, you got the shot so you could travel and nothing happened to you so why won't you get it for my baby?  (At that time the shot was some 4+ years old and would have waned according to research SIL had sent.  Also we were having whooping cough outbreaks in our area at that time)  Faced with this, Amy ended up getting the shot.   

John asked Amy to apologize for suggesting that him or Julie would intentionally hurt their son but she only apologized to Amy. 

Almost a year later, we were getting along OK but Amy was still very resentful at John and avoided him when he came over.  When Andrew began eating solid food, John offered to pay for everyone in the family to learn CPR and infant first aid and choking certifications.  

We were all in favor of the CPR class but even though SIL was paying, Amy did not want to take it.    After I started showing anxiety about being tested in front of the others by demonstrating what was taught and practiced, I ended up not being wanted to be tested at all and we cancelled the rest of the class. 

This is when Amy yelled at John and called him an ***hole and a bully and that he was driving a wedge between him and his son.   She also said that she was to going to pay for Andrew's therapy because he's going to need a lot.    John didn't like this and asked Amy to find any adult that resented their parents for learning CPR, making them wear seatbelts and keeping them safe from guns and bears. 

 

I think sometimes parents fail to notice that they are the source for the need of therapy -- but blame others for it- If a child lives in an environment where they are exposed to sustained stress resulting from over protection no doubt harm will come to them in the form of poor health and stunted psychological growth-

Edited by Komorebi

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5 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I think sometimes parents fail to notice that they are the source for the need of therapy -- but blame others for it- If a child lives in an environment where they are exposed to sustained stress resulting from over protection no doubt harm will come to them in the form of poor health and stunted psychological growth-

Better overprotective than gun waving, imo.

And there's no evidence that either SIL or DD are overprotective. Getting the TDAP is a reasonable request. Asking those who may be entrusted with child care to have CPR and First Aid, also reasonable. Wanting ppl to wear seatbelts, not only reasonable but also law abiding.

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18 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I think sometimes parents fail to notice that they are the source for the need of therapy -- but blame others for it- If a child lives in an environment where they are exposed to sustained stress resulting from over protection no doubt harm will come to them in the form of poor health and stunted psychological growth-

I think it's not good to be overprotected.  But constantly being around fighting and risky behaviors would be stressful too.

Also I guess that depends on your definition of overprotection. I don't think that requesting CPR classes (I'd defer the test though), Dpt shots (when you know people have had them in the past and have no moral objection), and seatbelt use is overprotection.  Taking a CPR class and getting a DPT shot, is not going to harm me.  The OD got one to go on vacation for goodness sakes, there can be no reason for her to refuse for her neice or nephew.  Even if I thought they were ridiculous, and decided not to do them, I would have to accept the consequences of not doing them.  The only reason to not do something that is not harmful to me or against my moral compass and to make trouble of for no good reason,is because I can.   There is not good reason here.  .  There is an "I won't be told what to do" attitude because I am the head of the household.

I am not the head of my AC household..  My AC are the parents.  Their choices.    I will do what they say unless it's a hill to die on.  Then I accept the consequences.

Also I was raised to be responsible.  My children were raised to be responsible.  I hope my GC are raised to be responsible.  Gun waving, , approaching  wild animals, not wearing seatbelts , not having health insurance are irresponsible behaviors that I would not be thrilled to have my child/ GC around.  I can see why this SIL is not thrilled to have his child around it.   I would think being constantly in risky situations would be "stressful" too.

Edited by skipped
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2 minutes ago, skipped said:

I think it's not good to be overprotected.  But constantly being around fighting and risky behaviors would be stressful too.

Also I guess that depends on your definition of overprotection. I don't think that requesting CPR classes (I'd defer the test though), Dpt shots (when you know people have had them in the past and have no moral objection), and seatbelt use is overprotection.  Taking a CPR class and getting a DPT shot, is not going to harm me.  The OD got one to go on vacation for goodness sakes, there can be no reason for her to refuse for her neice or nephew.  Even if I thought they were ridiculous, and decided not to do them, I would have to accept the consequences of not doing them.  The only reason to not do something that is not harmful to me or against my moral compass and to make trouble of for no good reason,is because I can.   There is not good reason here.  .  There is an "I won't be told what to do" attitude because I am the head of the household.

I am not the head of my AC household..  My AC are the parents.  Their choices.    I will do what they say unless it's a hill to die on.  Then I accept the consequences.

Also I was raised to be responsible.  My children were raised to be responsible.  I hope my GC are raised to be responsible.  Gun waving, , approaching  wild animals, not wearing seatbelts , not having health insurance are irresponsible behaviors that I would not be thrilled to have my child/ GC around.  I can see why this SIL is not thrilled to have his child around it.   I would think being constantly in risky situations would be "stressful" too.

I think we just agreed again, skipped. 

I'm not sure if I should offer to go for drinks, or find a fainting couch.

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7 hours ago, ImpishMom said:

Better overprotective than gun waving, imo.

And there's no evidence that either SIL or DD are overprotective. Getting the TDAP is a reasonable request. Asking those who may be entrusted with child care to have CPR and First Aid, also reasonable. Wanting ppl to wear seatbelts, not only reasonable but also law abiding.

I'm not seeing rigid, controlling or overprotective here at all. I know overprotective, my MIL was queen of that club. Never hurt any of our cherubs to be protected with cotton blanket filler and bubble wrap all round them. Just made me nuts.

7 hours ago, skipped said:

I think it's not good to be overprotected.  But constantly being around fighting and risky behaviors would be stressful too.

Also I guess that depends on your definition of overprotection. I don't think that requesting CPR classes (I'd defer the test though), Dpt shots (when you know people have had them in the past and have no moral objection), and seatbelt use is overprotection.  Taking a CPR class and getting a DPT shot, is not going to harm me.  The OD got one to go on vacation for goodness sakes, there can be no reason for her to refuse for her neice or nephew.  Even if I thought they were ridiculous, and decided not to do them, I would have to accept the consequences of not doing them.  The only reason to not do something that is not harmful to me or against my moral compass is to make trouble of for no good reason,is because I can.   There is not good reason here.  .  There is an "I won't be told what to do" attitude because I am the head of the household.

I am not the head of my AC household..  My AC are the parents.  Their choices.    I will do what they say unless it's a hill to die on.  Then I accept the consequences.

Also I was raised to be responsible.  My children were raised to be responsible.  I hope my GC are raised to be responsible.  Gun waving, , approaching  wild animals, not wearing seatbelts , not having health insurance are irresponsible behaviors that I would not be thrilled to have my child/ GC around.  I can see why this SIL is not thrilled to have his child around it.   I would think being constantly in risky situations would be "stressful" too.

YES YES YES.  Gun waving, no seatbelts, grizzly approaches are not a normal acceptable thought patterns for us and are HTDO.

Edited by JanelleK
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Emphasis: Parents fail to notice-

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Just now, Komorebi said:

Emphasis: Parents fail to notice-

This was a *baby* being discussed. Saying that the *baby* will need therapy is a huge insult to the parenting. There was literally *no* evidence that the parents had done anything wrong. 

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If the baby grows up and needs therapy it will be from how grandma and aunt and the rest of the family treats him.

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I keep reading with the hope that I will find something that sparked all of this animosity against SIL. I have to hand it to you Maxine, you have certainly committed to the “SIL=Villain” stance.

First, I want to address the whooping cough issue separate from the vaccination issue.  You are aware that babies DIE from whooping cough. Especially when visiting or living in areas where there are outbreaks. I don’t see a single negative to asking family members who ostensibly want close contact with a child to do everything in their power to protect the child.  Adults are supposed to step up and protect children. If you choose not to have a vaccination, you choose by virtue of default, to NOT see the child until they old enough to have immunity. It’s honestly not rocket science.

Vaccinations. That is a big old ball of problems waiting to happen. It is a hot button. I fully support parents’ right to NOT vaccinate for their reasons, but I also fully support parents’ rights to VACCINATE for their own reasons.

On Amy – here is where I have major issues. As someone mentioned earlier, your family is a closed unit. You do not allow or expect differing opinions. NOR, it appears, do you have any problem with trying to force your opinions on anyone else. Not to be rude, or put too fine of a point on it, but frankly Amy’s involvement here is entirely too much. She oversteps consistently into things that are none of her business.

I have one sibling who has been happily married for years (fewer than DH and I but still a significant number of years) they choose NOT to have children. As much as I would have loved to have had nieces and nephews from this particular brother, and as great of a dad as I think he would have made, THEY chose not to have children. NOT MY BUSINESS. I had my feelings, I dealt with my feelings, I moved on. Period.

However, despite not having children, he and his wife took it upon themselves to tell us just where we were going wrong with our children. Under the guise of “they are my nieces, I just want what is best for them.” Followed by some diatribe on our parenting choices.  It was very easy for him to show up at our house, unannounced, to visit or drop off a birthday present right before bed time, get the girls all riled up and excited, and then suddenly not understand why they wouldn’t calm down and go directly to bed. “If I had kids….” OMG how many times I heard that. You didn’t…and you aren’t the parent of my children so you don’t get input.

A word of advice for Amy, which I’m certain will be ignored. She may be the older sibling, which MAY have carried weight when your daughters were kids. But she gets ZERO input into what her sister or her family do with their lives or their child. She doesn’t get a vote on whether they vaccinate, share him with the family or any other decision that her sister and her DH make. She is part of Julie’s extended family. She is NOT part of her immediate family. Her sphere of influence ends at the door. If other people give her leeway to do as she pleases, that is on them. But it is not her right or her prerogative.

On the CPR front. I was under the impression that the only ones that SIL actually expected to take the class were family members who would be alone with the baby as a caregiver. If Amy wanted to serve in a caregiver capacity and that was the expectation, she should have participated. Child care providers are mandated BY LAW in day cares, preschools and family run-daycare to be certified in CPR and First Aid. There is a reason for that. Well before I had children, I worked in a day care while in college. I have never been so thankful for that training as the day I had to do the Heimlich and a finger sweep on my own choking child. That training saved my daughter’s life.

I get social anxiety. Both DH and my ODD have social anxiety and test anxiety. Were you aware that you can speak to the instructors and they are very likely open to letting you test in private away from onlookers if it makes you more comfortable. All they want is to ensure that more people know how to help in a crisis. They aren’t there to terrify or punish you for taking the class. They will do everything in their power to help you get your certification.

I don’t get the line about “we were all in favor of CPR class even with SIL paying”. I thought that was the family line? SIL is SUPPOSED to pay for things for your family? Did I miss something? You expect him to pay for medical expenses, I would have expected a fuss to be put up if he DIDN’T pay for it.

I see a trend here. You and your family are allowed to say anything you want to John or about John with no repercussions. However, if he does the same, he is relegated to the evil SIL who is tearing the family apart.  Are you familiar with the saying ‘*** for tat’? It means insult in return for one that one has suffered. Do you really have such strong opinion of your place in your family and the expectation of holding that position over John and Julie’s family, that you really believe that you do not have to take what you dish out?

John even points that out in his letter to Amy, how you and your family draw up on the ‘opinions’ of others to support your claims. That is a manipulation tactic pure and simple and he has made it clear that he isn’t going to be led by that type of manipulation.

SIL is a liar….that Is a very bold statement. SIL isn’t the one keeping Andrew away from his aunt and the rest of the family. The behavior exhibited by the aunt and the family is what is preventing all of you from seeing him. Period.

“LIKE ME, LIKE MY HUSBAND, SHE DOESN’T NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO HIM. WE NEVER WILL.”

And that is the proverbial nail in the coffin. Very clearly for us to read. You would rather be right than happy. You are drawing a line in the sand, which is your right. But understand, your line is yours alone. What you have shared with us here indicates that your family so rigid, set in your ways, and with no intention of bending at all.  There is a quote belonging to Confucius, which has been paraphrased over the years. But the basic gist is this. “The tree that bends is stronger than the might oak that breaks in a storm.” Meaning, the more you insist on being right and on having no flexibility whatsoever, the greater you are running the risk of breaking the family relationship altogether.

 

As to the comments about your SIL being overprotective. I don’t know a single first time parent that isn’t a little overprotective at first. It’s what you do when they are going through that first blush of parenthood that sets you up for the rest of relationship. Understanding that they might be overprotective at first is part of going with the flow of grandparenthood. 

I think a little bit overprotectiveness when a child is a baby is going to weigh in far less in therapy, years down the road, than having grandparents and an aunt who constantly undermine the parents, cause chaos in the family, talk horribly about the child’s father, and show zero respect for the child’s family. But that’s just my opinion on that one.

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I think it is also essential to remember that this SIL is not a young thirty something young man like these daughters are, but a fifty something man with apparently 40 years of work experience under his belt.  He is well versed in the economy, insurance, medical issues and health issues.  We don't know what his field of employment is, but his knowledge might exceed that of his ILs who have only been in this country not quite 30 years.

I "assume" that he is experienced in writing letters and has been very careful not to step on toes any more than is necessary to get his point across that he and his wife are the only authority in his/their home.

I agree with BEG, first time parents are often over protective and ridged.  That reminds me of the commercials where the first time Mom is so harried from gathering all the supplies she needs to take a walk around the block she forgets the baby.  Then with the second, she grabs up the baby along with a handful of cereal off the floor and walks out the door with two.

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53 minutes ago, homeygfunk said:

If the baby grows up and needs therapy it will be from how grandma and aunt and the rest of the family treats him.

How would that be if grandma, aunt and the rest of the family have no contact with the baby?

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Just now, Komorebi said:

How would that be if grandma, aunt and the rest of the family have no contact with the baby?

IF

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At this point in time, Mom is gone once a week somewhere where the two year old knows nothing about.  Don't you think it ever enters his little mind what is going on, what about if he is 6, 8 or 10?  Do you think he will wonder what he has done wrong that he doesn't get to visit his grandparents, aunt and Ggma like all his friends do?  Kids of divorce usually worry that they "caused" it.  Will he think it is his fault?

Do you think Mom and Dad are going to say, sorry son but we are just to rigid, stiff and fearful for your safety...you can't go.  Or...will they say, "sorry son, we tried and tried to work things out with your maternal family but nothing worked.  When he asked again at 20, his mom might even say her son, read for yourself as she hands over all saved correspondence.

 

Edited by SueSTx

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27 minutes ago, BlueEyedGirl said:

I keep reading with the hope that I will find something that sparked all of this animosity against SIL. I have to hand it to you Maxine, you have certainly committed to the “SIL=Villain” stance.

 

First, I want to address the whooping cough issue separate from the vaccination issue.  You are aware that babies DIE from whooping cough. Especially when visiting or living in areas where there are outbreaks. I don’t see a single negative to asking family members who ostensibly want close contact with a child to do everything in their power to protect the child.  Adults are supposed to step up and protect children. If you choose not to have a vaccination, you choose by virtue of default, to NOT see the child until they old enough to have immunity. It’s honestly not rocket science.

 

Vaccinations. That is a big old ball of problems waiting to happen. It is a hot button. I fully support parents’ right to NOT vaccinate for their reasons, but I also fully support parents’ rights to VACCINATE for their own reasons.

 

On Amy – here is where I have major issues. As someone mentioned earlier, your family is a closed unit. You do not allow or expect differing opinions. NOR, it appears, do you have any problem with trying to force your opinions on anyone else. Not to be rude, or put too fine of a point on it, but frankly Amy’s involvement here is entirely too much. She oversteps consistently into things that are none of her business.

 

I have one sibling who has been happily married for years (fewer than DH and I but still a significant number of years) they choose NOT to have children. As much as I would have loved to have had nieces and nephews from this particular brother, and as great of a dad as I think he would have made, THEY chose not to have children. NOT MY BUSINESS. I had my feelings, I dealt with my feelings, I moved on. Period.

 

However, despite not having children, he and his wife took it upon themselves to tell us just where we were going wrong with our children. Under the guise of “they are my nieces, I just want what is best for them.” Followed by some diatribe on our parenting choices.  It was very easy for him to show up at our house, unannounced, to visit or drop off a birthday present right before bed time, get the girls all riled up and excited, and then suddenly not understand why they wouldn’t calm down and go directly to bed. “If I had kids….” OMG how many times I heard that. You didn’t…and you aren’t the parent of my children so you don’t get input.

 

A word of advice for Amy, which I’m certain will be ignored. She may be the older sibling, which MAY have carried weight when your daughters were kids. But she gets ZERO input into what her sister or her family do with their lives or their child. She doesn’t get a vote on whether they vaccinate, share him with the family or any other decision that her sister and her DH make. She is part of Julie’s extended family. She is NOT part of her immediate family. Her sphere of influence ends at the door. If other people give her leeway to do as she pleases, that is on them. But it is not her right or her prerogative.

 

On the CPR front. I was under the impression that the only ones that SIL actually expected to take the class were family members who would be alone with the baby as a caregiver. If Amy wanted to serve in a caregiver capacity and that was the expectation, she should have participated. Child care providers are mandated BY LAW in day cares, preschools and family run-daycare to be certified in CPR and First Aid. There is a reason for that. Well before I had children, I worked in a day care while in college. I have never been so thankful for that training as the day I had to do the Heimlich and a finger sweep on my own choking child. That training saved my daughter’s life.

 

I get social anxiety. Both DH and my ODD have social anxiety and test anxiety. Were you aware that you can speak to the instructors and they are very likely open to letting you test in private away from onlookers if it makes you more comfortable. All they want is to ensure that more people know how to help in a crisis. They aren’t there to terrify or punish you for taking the class. They will do everything in their power to help you get your certification.

 

I don’t get the line about “we were all in favor of CPR class even with SIL paying”. I thought that was the family line? SIL is SUPPOSED to pay for things for your family? Did I miss something? You expect him to pay for medical expenses, I would have expected a fuss to be put up if he DIDN’T pay for it.

 

I see a trend here. You and your family are allowed to say anything you want to John or about John with no repercussions. However, if he does the same, he is relegated to the evil SIL who is tearing the family apart.  Are you familiar with the saying ‘*** for tat’? It means insult in return for one that one has suffered. Do you really have such strong opinion of your place in your family and the expectation of holding that position over John and Julie’s family, that you really believe that you do not have to take what you dish out?

 

John even points that out in his letter to Amy, how you and your family draw up on the ‘opinions’ of others to support your claims. That is a manipulation tactic pure and simple and he has made it clear that he isn’t going to be led by that type of manipulation.

 

SIL is a liar….that Is a very bold statement. SIL isn’t the one keeping Andrew away from his aunt and the rest of the family. The behavior exhibited by the aunt and the family is what is preventing all of you from seeing him. Period.

 

“LIKE ME, LIKE MY HUSBAND, SHE DOESN’T NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO HIM. WE NEVER WILL.”

 

And that is the proverbial nail in the coffin. Very clearly for us to read. You would rather be right than happy. You are drawing a line in the sand, which is your right. But understand, your line is yours alone. What you have shared with us here indicates that your family so rigid, set in your ways, and with no intention of bending at all.  There is a quote belonging to Confucius, which has been paraphrased over the years. But the basic gist is this. “The tree that bends is stronger than the might oak that breaks in a storm.” Meaning, the more you insist on being right and on having no flexibility whatsoever, the greater you are running the risk of breaking the family relationship altogether.

 

 

 

As to the comments about your SIL being overprotective. I don’t know a single first time parent that isn’t a little overprotective at first. It’s what you do when they are going through that first blush of parenthood that sets you up for the rest of relationship. Understanding that they might be overprotective at first is part of going with the flow of grandparenthood. 

 

I think a little bit overprotectiveness when a child is a baby is going to weigh in far less in therapy, years down the road, than having grandparents and an aunt who constantly undermine the parents, cause chaos in the family, talk horribly about the child’s father, and show zero respect for the child’s family. But that’s just my opinion on that one.

 

Sadly I think this will fall on deaf ears, but hey people here gave it a good try. 

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Just now, homeygfunk said:

IF

I think of this when someone says IF ..

 

Cinderella-stepsisters-laughing.jpg

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I assume someone is having computer problems like I sometimes do.

 

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31 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

I think of this when someone says IF ..

 

Cinderella-stepsisters-laughing.jpg

This speaks volumes to me Komo....the caption should be in Russian because this is what SIL sees

Edited by Mame925
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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

I think of this when someone says IF ..

 

Cinderella-stepsisters-laughing.jpg

Sorry, maybe I’m slow today but I don’t get it. Can you explain? Thank you

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39 minutes ago, darkprincess said:

Sorry, maybe I’m slow today but I don’t get it. Can you explain? Thank you

An  attempt to mock the person who said if. Best to ignore :crazy:

Edited by pearlj
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9 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

SIL is a liar.  He said there would be a happy little boy want to know his Aunt Amy but she hasn't seen Andrew since CPR class 17 months ago.   SIL has asked her to apologize for her statements and won't let her see Andrew until she does. 

Like me, like my husband, she doesn't need to apologize to him.  We never will.

No this part isn't true.  Your SIL says in the letter that Julie had said Amy may go and travel and possibly wouldn't be around in the early stages of Andrew's life so she may not need the vaccination in that case and he said that the arguing about the vaccination is unfortunate and regrettable if indeed Amy would be travelling and not need to have it. He then goes on to say that if that's the case when Amy gets back from travelling then there will be a happy little boy wanting to get to know his aunt.  This is all around the time of the vaccination.  I bolded this part as SIL did ask for an apology and Amy gave it to Julie only however it appears that Amy was still allowed to see Andrew.

 

10 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

Almost a year later, we were getting along OK but Amy was still very resentful at John and avoided him when he came over.  When Andrew began eating solid food, John offered to pay for everyone in the family to learn CPR and infant first aid and choking certifications.  

We were all in favor of the CPR class but even though SIL was paying, Amy did not want to take it.    After I started showing anxiety about being tested in front of the others by demonstrating what was taught and practiced, I ended up not being wanted to be tested at all and we cancelled the rest of the class. 

This is when Amy yelled at John and called him an ***hole and a bully and that he was driving a wedge between him and his son.   She also said that she was to going to pay for Andrew's therapy because he's going to need a lot.    John didn't like this and asked Amy to find any adult that resented their parents for learning CPR, making them wear seatbelts and keeping them safe from guns and bears. 

 

It appears that a year has passed when the CPR incident then happened.  It appears that Amy was seeing Andrew in that time as SIL is offering for everyone in the family to do the CPR. It appears everything went down hill here and eventually it was you and your husband who sent an email telling SIL that you don't want a relationship with him.  He has respected your wishes and doesn't have a relationship with you.

 

9 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

Summary of what SIL hints at in above letter.  Amy is the 5 year older sister, now 35, she hasn't had a boyfriend in 7 years since fiance left her.  SIL believes Amy is upset that younger sister got married and is starting a family when she was on track to do this first as older sister.  SIL believes Amy and I are trying to break up his family and said that my husbands letter was like leaving landmines throughout their home.   

I think your SIL is right.  Amy does have a few issues going on.  I would think it's highly possible that she is jealous that her younger sister is moving on with the life she should be living herself.  Jealousy can make people act out in all sorts of weird ways.  Amy had the TDAP vaccination for her previous holiday and then she suddenly becomes an anti- vaxxer and refuses to have one for Andrew's health. This doesn't make sense, Amy was deliberately being difficult.  Of course Amy would love her sister so she is taking her frustration out on SIL. He is the outsider of the family so he is the one to get all the abuse. Even if Amy is traveling and appears to have a nice life, can't you see that she may want to be married and have a partner to share that with, can't you see that at 35 she may be inwardly scared that she may miss her chance of having a family and children.  Can't you see that those real fears may cause her to act out rashly and in frustration and jealousy? 

Even though your younger daughter has co-wrote the letter, I notice you never call her a control freak.  You write as if the letters are solely from your SIL but they are not, Julie has co-wrote them, agrees with them and is 100% on board with them.  You say your SIL mentions that your husbands letter to him and Julie have been like landmines in their household, does it ever occur to you that this is causing conflict in their marriage.  Does that worry you?  A parent most likely doesn't want to see their child's life in turmoil or having troubles however you seem to be encouraging it with your SIL and Julie.  I dare say your SIL is trying to find peace and love within his own marriage and family and that at this stage that is more important to him than you and your family.  Remember SIL said that Andrew comes before anyone else and having a happy family and loving parents is good for Andrew, so your SIL's focus would be there. 

Edited by Layla

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Actually there is probably only one thing you are really interested in hearing.  How to have a relationship with your daughter and grandson without your SIL?

I don't know.  My answer is ask Julie.

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13 hours ago, SueSTx said:

Funny thing...in my doc/GPs office at a yearly physical, I am asked if I have up TDAP, flu shot, Pneumonia vaccine etc up to date...it is stressed that if you are around babies it is important to be vaccinated against Whooping Cough.

Yes. In fact, DH and I have been thinking that if ODD ever has a baby or YDD ever has another one, we'll get the TDAP shot, even if they don't ask us to. (We never heard anything about that back when YDD had her 2 kids or we would have done it then.) But that's just DH and me.

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On 11/21/2017 at 6:52 PM, Komorebi said:

Look to the very beginning of this thread- The way I read it, it appears to me there wasn't any drama until the baby entered the picture- Then all hell broke loose -- unfortunately- But at the beginning they supported the marriage- Does that sound dramatic to you?  They made efforts with shots and cpr but evidently discovered it was too much- I don't think they were prepared to handle what was asked of them, while at the same time they were expected to otherwise wouldn't see their grandchild -- eventually- And they knew it- And it hurt- And they acted out-  It's also entirely possible the son in-law knew this all along and was biding his time- 

Sometimes people want what they want, and in the process lose interest in the relationship- As a result, they do one of two things depending on their personality- They either aim to get their way or walk away and call it quits-

Komorebi, thanks for responding. I can see where you'd think Maxine and her family made efforts. I don't agree, but that is OK. For the most part it does sound like they all got along better than after the baby entered the picture but there were still incidents that took place that make it sound like there were issues prior. Just more pronounced when baby entered the picture. But again, thanks for answering.

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12 hours ago, Maxine2020 said:

Summary of what SIL hints at in above letter.  Amy is the 5 year older sister, now 35, she hasn't had a boyfriend in 7 years since fiance left her.  SIL believes Amy is upset that younger sister got married and is starting a family when she was on track to do this first as older sister. Is that possible? I was thinking about that, too. Especially after reading the latest letter you provided, where John suggests that Amy is the driving force behind much of the conflict. But I realize she could just be very much at odds w/ John & Julie's ideas.  SIL believes Amy and I are trying to break up his family - Are you? - and said that my husbands letter was like leaving landmines throughout their home.   Yeah, I thought that was a little dramatic. But Mike's letter was very harsh.

 

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