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Maxine2020

2nd Post MIL and Son-In-Law Troubles

350 posts in this topic

After receiving the letter from SIL in early August 2016, my husband and I were very upset.   We hadn't seen our grandson in 5 weeks.

We tried to trick SIL into thinking he had to let our daughter and grandson come over to our house without him by pretending that Gammy was too sick to leave the house.  Son in law stubbornly insisted that if Gammy was that sick she should go to the hosipital and they would visit her there.   In reality, I am very sensitive and have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and I didn't want to see SIL yet alone talk to him. 

After 7 weeks, we decided to take them up and visited them one Sunday afternoon for about an hour.   The visit went OK but I did not speak to my son in law.   He kept trying to make conversation with me but I didn't want to respond or encourage him that things were back to normal. 

The next week was Labor Day weekend 2016 and we decided to take Gammy to Florida, we loaded up in the car and made the 700 mile drive to the panhandle.  Sadly, when we got there a hurricane was brewing and we had to turn around almost immediately.    Once back in town, we had a lot of free time so we asked if we could come over and see grandson again. 

Despite it being 2 weekends in a row, DD and SIL agreed and we went over with Gammy.   Again, the SIL tried to make conversation and I think make fun of us by commenting how well Gammy looked despite the long trip she endurred.   Secretly though, I think he was harboring anger because their 5th wedding anniversary occurred between the 2 visits and no one in my family sent them a card or even mentioned it to them.  Not even to my daughter.  

The visit started off badly according to SIL because when we entered my husband went and picked up the grandson and put him on one shoulder with one arm while trying to bottle feed him with the other arm.  Both my daughter and the SIL rushed over to stop him as if he were trying to strangle the baby. 

SIL later claimed that the baby 'could have' fallen to the concrete and tile floor and been seriously injured and that my husband and I should treat the baby with the same care as they do. 

Sidenote:  SIL is always over protective.  He stills holds a grudge from a time where my husband pointed a gun at him and my daughter while they were visiting our house.  My husband wasn't angry or pointing at them in anger just waving the gun past them for 7-8 seconds.    When SIL complained about it later, we told him the gun wasn't loaded but SIL insists that 'unloaded guns' kill people everyday.    SIL also criticizes us for not wearing seatbelts and for approaching a wild bear within 15-20 feet when we were in Yellowstone. 

So after 45-50 minutes, SIL seems upset that I won't talk with him or even acknowledge him.  He pretends that the grandson is getting fussy and needs to go down for a nap.   We leave after a short visit. 

That evening, SIL sends a new email deadset on punishing us with more of his ridiculous demands. 

 

Mike, Maxine,

On behalf of Julie's desires both of you and Gammy were invited over here today as an exception to the bi-weekly invitation.  At this time though, there appears there is too much animosity for the current situation to continue as is. 

Almost a month ago, Julie and I co-wrote a letter that concluded with an offer to work together on moving forward and creating more understanding between us.   As of today, neither of you have reached out to help create this reality.  

Since Maxine is so far unable to be polite while a guest in our home it has become necessary that we will modify the visiting arrangements to once a month. 

Should future visits be repetitions of today’s visit, we will continue to modify the schedule to quarterly and then annual visits if relations do not improve. 

In the meantime, we will work to ensure that Gammy has regular access to visit Andrew over here if she desires. 

If you’re interested in having polite non-emotional conversations about how we can find some common ground in resolving the current issues, we remain committed to starting a dialogue with you.  

 

Of course, we were really furious after receiving this letter.  My husband's response to follow. 

 

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Hello again.  Even as a MIL, I am seeing red flags and simply cannot support you.

We tried to trick SIL into thinking he had to let our daughter and grandson come over to our house without him.

A close family doesn't try to trick another family member into doing things their way.

Secretly though, I think he was harboring anger because their 5th wedding anniversary occurred between the 2 visits and no one in my family sent them a card or even mentioned it to them.  Not even to my daughter.  

Is the reason no one acknowledged their anniversary because y'all were harboring anger toward him?

Sidenote:  SIL is always over protective.  He stills holds a grudge from a time where my husband pointed a gun at him and my daughter while they were visiting our house.  My husband wasn't angry or pointing at them in anger just waving the gun past them for 7-8 seconds.    When SIL complained about it later, we told him the gun wasn't loaded but SIL insists that 'unloaded guns' kill people everyday.    SIL also criticizes us for not wearing seatbelts and for approaching a wild bear within 15-20 feet when we were in Yellowstone. 

Maybe there is a valid reason Julie felt that her father wasn't using enough caution with her baby.  If anyone ever waved a gun at me...They would be reported to the police and never see me or my family again, even if I was told it wasn't loaded.

Since Maxine is so far unable to be polite while a guest in our home it has become necessary that we will modify the visiting arrangements to once a month. 

You are so lucky you are still invited once a month.  

 

 

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We're not invited at all anymore.  My husband replied to SILs email above the next day and we haven't seen grandson next (except one occasion). 

Son in law, daughter and grandson have moved on with their lives for the most part.  They went to Europe twice last year, Germany, France, Spain and Andorra and are going again in a few months.  I don't even look at my daughter's Facebook page anymore and neither does my older daughter.  We unfriended her because it hurts too much to see photos and videos of grandson growing up. 

 

What do you mean by red flags?

Edited by Maxine2020
forgot

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red flags = caution to me.

I read both of your post to hubby and he just shook his head and said after the gun incident, he was surprised SIL was still allowing visits.

If your family is so close, why would you ever respond this way?

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Maxine,

My inlaws tried to trick me too. They wanted our wedding at a hotel and we did our own thing. It backfired on them. You are not dealing with a 20 something kid fresh out of college. You are not even dealing with a wise 30 year old. You are dealing with a grown man who has a lot of life experience like you. You are not going to out smart him. 

 

Edited by dilpenshername

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So after the last visit and the 'visit monthly' email from my son in law, my husband sent this the next day to SIL and cc'd my daughter.   Husband also shared this letter with the entire family, aunts, cousins, sister, brother,  nephews etc. 

Your letter from August 7th, which read like a legal deposition from an overpriced lawyer (perhaps you should consider new career path), was interpreted by us in exactly the way you actually intended it: as a big "**** you all, King John, expert in parenting, is always right, except when he is twice as right. If anyone should even have an opinion that is different from mine, it is considered treason, and they shall be shot or punished by not being allowed to see my son."

Much has changed in the last 30 years but freedom to express your opinion on any subject is still a privilege that many living in US are taking for granted (and some think it is only for them, but not for “villagers”). Maxine led us all out of the country where it was only a dream. And here in the great USA we can and will exercise our right to do so – same way you criticize and gossip about everything and everybody who does not support your likes.

What kind of “reasonable and emotionally mature adult” uses an innocent child to punish people whenever they do something to offend YOU? It's disgusting and pathetic. Grow the **** up.

Your latest attempt in “dialogue” reminds me of conjugal visits to incarcerated men in prison – twice a month, sit straight, don’t cry, 30 minutes tops – set of rules that’s probably on the books for federal pen.

Your current email was the last straw. We do not believe you are capable of having "polite dialogue" or that you even know what these words mean. Dialogue is a conversation between two people. You are only interested in monologue - in hearing your own voice and believing you are right about everything. 

The word “polite” is another word you seem to be confused about. If you think that my wife is not polite, you either need a Websters or some anti-delusion medication. With how you have treated her over the last year, being disgustingly disrespectful over nothing, when she has done nothing but help you and try to meet your ridiculous demands, you are lucky that she did not spit in your face. You deserve much worse than how she has treated you, but she is the most decent and kind person I have ever known, so she has repeatedly tried to take the high road with you even though you put her thru hell.

The road ends here. To be perfectly clear, your Reign of Terror over this family is over. We are done with being ****** around and your ridiculous demands. We will have no further contact with you. It is a privilege to be part of our family, and you have fully lost that privilege. 

 

The SIL did not respond back and hasn't for 15 months. 

Daughter still visits each week but without grandson.  Son in law claims that my husband is too careless, dangerous and unpredictable to have contact with grandson and that I and Amy are too emotionally toxic to be around his son unsupervised.  

Daughter stands by her husband so far.  Through her son in law has taken the position that my husband and I are trying to break up their marriage and drive them apart.  As a result of the conflict, SIL now blames us for their decision not to have a second child.

We haven't seen our grandson for 15 months now except 1 occasion.  (to be covered in a later post)

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We have guns. They are locked in a gun-safe.

Nobody waves them at anyone else. Waving guns, in my FOO, would yield a call to the Sheriff and instant permanent cutoff.

Nobody can make you wear seatbelts, but it is a law. However, not wearing seatbelts would cause us and our AC to doubt someone was going to put LOs in carseats every single time. With doubt in mind, someone who couldn't be bothered with seatbelts would never drive LOs or be in a car with them modeling such horrid behavior. Seatbelts/carseats are mandated by laws for an excellent set of reasons.

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14 minutes ago, SueSTx said:

red flags = caution to me.

I read both of your post to hubby and he just shook his head and said after the gun incident, he was surprised SIL was still allowing visits.

If your family is so close, why would you ever respond this way?

LOL, that's just what happened when I read this. I SMH. The gun did it for me.  I don't think your SIL is  totally blameless here, but you guys are totally unrealistic as to your role in all of this.    I think he sounds rigid, but you sound much worse.  You won't give an inch. 

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Maxine, of course it is perfectly within your and your husband' and all the rest of your extended family to cease contact with your SIL and therefore your grandson if you do not wish to maintain contact with him.  As long as your daughter still visits every week, maybe you will be happy, but what if she stops at some point?  Will you be content then?

Edited by SueSTx
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Whoa! This whole situation, IMO, has gotten way out of control! I'm so deeply sorry, Mame. (((Hugs!)))

I understand FIL's appreciation of freedom of speech. But, IMO, it needs to be used wisely. Criticizing, fighting and trying to undermine parental decisions probably isn't the wisest way to use it. The law doesn't punish you (general) for that, but parents can decide to keep you way from them and their child if they so choose. Is it worth it for the sake of exercising free speech? Only you and DH can decide (and Amy, too, I suppose).

IMO, SIL has no business blaming you and DH for any choices he and Julie make about whether or not to have another child. That's bogus! I understand his not being happy w/ how your relationship soured after the birth of this child, however.

I'm glad you still get to see Julie. Hopefully, in time, you'll be able to see Andrew, as well. But clearly, that will only happen if you can reconcile w/ John. And that may take a while, if it occurs at all. I hope it does.

Edited by RoseRed135

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I want to take this time to remind everybody that under guideline 5d it also says:

Suggesting a poster is fake is against the rules... If you suspect a member is a fake, contact a mod -  SueSTx,  rosered135,  homeygfunk or Mame925 - and ignore the poster. To PM (private message) a mod, just click on their username, then Send a Message and go from there.

There have been several posts hidden and the moderators will be discussing whether or not to open them back up.  I will not be sending a PM to these individual members at this time.

Edited by SueSTx
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We tried to trick SIL into thinking he had to let our daughter and grandson come over to our house without him by pretending that Gammy was too sick to leave the house.  

wow that is so manipulative  

 Again, the SIL tried to make conversation and I think make fun of us by commenting how well Gammy looked despite the long trip she endurred.   

because he knew you had lied to him

Secretly though, I think he was harboring anger because their 5th wedding anniversary occurred between the 2 visits and no one in my family sent them a card or even mentioned it to them.  Not even to my daughter.  

why did noone send a card. Did everyone forget or was it some collective petty act to punish them? Maybe they were hurt?

  He stills holds a grudge from a time where my husband pointed a gun at him and my daughter while they were visiting our house.  My husband wasn't angry or pointing at them in anger just waving the gun past them for 7-8 seconds.

WOW! Are you for real, do you really think this is okay and your sil should forget it. You hate him, you have made that clear and you are waving a gun in his face. sheesh.  I would cut you OUT of my life completely and keep my children away from you and your husband. 

SIL also criticizes us for not wearing seatbelts and for approaching a wild bear within 15-20 feet when we were in Yellowstone. 

yep, don't blame him, if you got into an accident and you were not wearing seatbelts the insurance won't cover your medical.

   So after 45-50 minutes, SIL seems upset that I won't talk with him or even acknowledge him.

well you are guest in his house and you are being extremely RUDE

I am with the others, something isn't sound right here and I will no longer spend time trying to help, or respond. 

Edited by pearlj

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Whoa whoa whoa. Waiving a gun? Pointing it at someone?!

That would be a firm, HELL NO from me. And my husband. And everyone we know. We would never had set foot in the house again.

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Another post has been hidden for review due to Guideline 5d.

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

Whoa! This whole situation, IMO, has gotten way out of control! I'm so deeply sorry, Mame. (((Hugs!)))

 

IMO, SIL has no business blaming you and DH for any choices he and Julie make about whether or not to have another child. That's bogus! I understand his not being happy w/ how your relationship soured after the birth of this child, however.

 

Actually, it is my daughter that made the decision and he supports her.  She said this one was too tough and hard on them. 

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4 minutes ago, Maxine2020 said:

Actually, it is my daughter that made the decision and he supports her.  She said this one was too tough and hard on them. 

So, it's not all your SIL. Even in your dd's eyes, you've done things that aren't acceptable...so why is it you don't owe them an apology?

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38 minutes ago, pearlj said:

We tried to trick SIL into thinking he had to let our daughter and grandson come over to our house without him by pretending that Gammy was too sick to leave the house.  

wow that is so manipulative  (we thought it was a way to get daughter and grandson over here without him)

 Again, the SIL tried to make conversation and I think make fun of us by commenting how well Gammy looked despite the long trip she endurred.   

because he knew you had lied to him ( he doesn't know anything)

Secretly though, I think he was harboring anger because their 5th wedding anniversary occurred between the 2 visits and no one in my family sent them a card or even mentioned it to them.  Not even to my daughter.  

why did noone send a card. Did everyone forget or was it some collective petty act to punish them? Maybe they were hurt? 

  He stills holds a grudge from a time where my husband pointed a gun at him and my daughter while they were visiting our house.  My husband wasn't angry or pointing at them in anger just waving the gun past them for 7-8 seconds.

WOW! Are you for real, do you really think this is okay and your sil should forget it. You hate him, you have made that clear and you are waving a gun in his face. sheesh.  I would cut you OUT of my life completely and keep my children away from you and your husband. 

SIL also criticizes us for not wearing seatbelts and for approaching a wild bear within 15-20 feet when we were in Yellowstone. 

yep, don't blame him, if you got into an accident and you were not wearing seatbelts the insurance won't cover your medical.

   So after 45-50 minutes, SIL seems upset that I won't talk with him or even acknowledge him.

well you are guest in his house and you are being extremely RUDE

I am with the others, something isn't sound right here and I will no longer spend time trying to help, or respond. 

I am trying to get to the point where I can explain what happened on Andrew's 2nd birthday.    I am sorry this doesn't make sense so far.

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Just now, Maxine2020 said:

I am trying to get to the point where I can explain what happened on Andrew's 2nd birthday.    I am sorry this doesn't make sense so far.

The problem is, everything you've shared is making you look worse and worse. Pointing a gun at someone is a stone cold ender for *most* people. That your SIL tried to keep you in his son's life after that says a LOT about how hard he's tried w/you folks.

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Maxine, I want you to think about this for a moment:

What would your reaction have been if your SIL visited your home, and refused to speak to you, or acknowledge your existence?

What would your dh's reaction have been if your SIL pointed a gun at him?

Would you have been ok with it, if it were being done to you?

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6 minutes ago, ImpishMom said:

The problem is, everything you've shared is making you look worse and worse. Pointing a gun at someone is a stone cold ender for *most* people. That your SIL tried to keep you in his son's life after that says a LOT about how hard he's tried w/you folks.

I am trying to explain this.  My husband wasn't angry.  He was just showing them the gun.  They overeacted and left right away.  This happened before they had Andrew.  

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Did they understand that he was bringing a gun to show them...or...did he surprise them with waving a gun around?

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1 hour ago, SueSTx said:

Maxine, of course it is perfectly within your and your husband' and all the rest of your extended family to cease contact with your SIL and therefore your grandson if you do not wish to maintain contact with him.  As long as your daughter still visits every week, maybe you will be happy, but what if she stops at some point?  Will you be content then?

She won't stop seeing us.  She says that her husband and her have agreed that if necessary they will move to another state to keep their marriage intact.

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1 minute ago, Maxine2020 said:

I am trying to explain this.  My husband wasn't angry.  He was just showing them the gun.  They overeacted and left right away.  This happened before they had Andrew.  

It doesn't matter if your dh was angry. He was waving a gun at people. They didn't overreact. Basic gun safety, 101, is that you don't point a gun at anyone.

And regardless of if they had Andrew at that point or not, I would never go back to a place where someone waved a gun at me or my dh.

Just now, Maxine2020 said:

She won't stop seeing us.  She says that her husband and her have agreed that if necessary they will move to another state to keep their marriage intact.

I suspect that will happen, sooner than you think.

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Believe her.

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1 minute ago, SueSTx said:

Did they understand that he was bringing a gun to show them...or...did he surprise them with waving a gun around?

Who shows someone a gun by waving it at them?!

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