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INCOGNITO

A small recap and question

131 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, INCOGNITO said:

So again, would it be reasonable to charge him, take the fee for stop payment, out of the rent, should we have to write another check due to his negligence?

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

Youve no way to prove that you "paid" your rent, or that he received it -- or do you?

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I'm getting the feeling you 'want your cake and eat it too'....the uncashed check is bothering you (your problem)...but you want to put it all on FIL to fix. If it bothers you enough deal with it. Apparently it isn't a problem for FIL, partly because I don't think he knows there is a problem. 

End of the year audits are coming up. If he's unaware he's lost the check he'll be telling you you've missed a rent payment. You'll tell him you did give him a check...he'll say he doesn't have it...blah, blah, blah. Do you want that kind of interaction? Or, do you deal with it in a minimal business like manner, replace the check, decide how you want to handle the fees (if any) and move on. 

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Why don't you get your DH to chase up the uncashed check?  If it's bothering you, then think of your FIL like a landlord and send a business like text asking whether he is going to cash it so it doesn't affect you. 

I would ask yourself if it's worth living in a house and being tied to people that bother you so much.  Why not move out and not have those ties to them?  Why are you paying money fixing things for a property that doesn't belong to you?  This is a money pit for you.

Why would you be worried about paying a fee for stopping a check when you haven't even made any inquiries about it yet.  Ask your FIL and then decide what you want to do.  This could all be avoided by moving out and having a proper landlord, then you wouldn't have the emotional connection to it all.  If you are paying cheaper rent then this is the price you pay for that benefit.

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I forgot to add, in relation to the texts I would let your DH decide what he wants to do.  They are his parents, a text is nothing to send, if it makes him feel better to send a quick text for holidays and birthdays, then he should send it and be done with it.  I would stay out of it, you don't need to talk to your DH about it, if it bothers you.  You don't need to send them anything, just let your DH decide on what level of contact he wants. 

I can't see any benefits to the two of you living in this house your PIL's own.  I would be looking at finding your own accommodation in the new year.

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Maybe Incog's questions are to provide her DH with avenue's to resolve this. They've been acting as a team in dealing with the people, so I'm assuming she isn't acting alone here. 

However, and as unpleasant as this may be for you both, get this settled, sooner rather than later. If you are "expecting" FIL to contact you over this and he doesn't, technically, you've missed a rent payment because your check hasn't been cashed. My guess is that he doesn't realize it's missing. 

Mismatched expectations is never a good thing.

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You are spending way too much brain space on this.  You are ruminating and caught in a repetitive cycle in which you are fixating on this undeposited rent check, and this fixation is not good for you as it keeps you stuck in a place that is negative and causes anxiety.  Personally, I would let this rent check issue go just like your FIL had to let all those uncashed checks he sent to you/DH go.  He didn't cash the rent check.  That is on him, and his reason why he didn't is his reason just as your reason for not cashing all the checks he sent you was yours/DH's.  Also quit fixation on the ***-for-tat regarding communication too.  If DH feels like reaching out to his parents, he should.   He shouldn't be restrained by some score card he keeps regarding who calls whom first.  DH is trying to control another person's behavior and get them to initiate contact by using this approach.  Rule #1 - You cannot control anyone else's behavior only your own.  Rule #2 - Trying to control another person's behavior has a high failure rate and most always leads to disappointment in the relationship. 

When you find yourself ruminating, try to redirect your focus through listening to music, meditation, pursuing an activity that requires you to focus your mind on it such as yoga or a crossword puzzle, etc. as this will help you move past it.  

 

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I see renting FILs house as a business transaction.   It doesn't sound to me like Incognito sees renting FILs house as a business transaction at all.

She states FIL comes to check on her (their)  house and are "nebbing". (not checking up on it.)  Legally with notice landlords can check on the status of their properties.

Technically she hasn't paid one months rent.  OP states it's not her job to babysit her landlord. . She states that the cash equivalent of the BD checks she hasn't cashed from FIL is equal to if not more than the rent she hasn't paid.  As someone stated above, this wouldn't hold up in court. Legally you must pay rent.  Consequences are late payment fees/ evictions.  There are no consequences here- She states as a fact that FIL will never evict her. Ever? Is she sure?  Just how much can she get away with before she would be evicted.  Can she refuse to ever pay rent?  Can she totally trash the house?  

In normal situations, rentees can't make changes to the property without the consent of the landlord.   It doesn't sound like son ran by the "outside changes they have  made" to the house with FIL.  They bypass him because they don't want to deal with him. They pay for it and do whatever they like.  This is not the usual situation.  You can'[t just do whatever you like to a rental house and get away with it. Some places you even have to patch nail holes in walls where you hung pictures.  Changing the outside of a house sounds like something a landlord should approve.

I think renting from relatives usually would have it's perks.  Things aren't so "legal".  But I would have my limits,   I personally would be giving a "deal" on rent if I was renting to my AC   And I would already be have a very hard time renting to my DIL/ son when our relationship is this strained.  Add that that the  son/ DIL. sound entitled that they don't  owe it to me to bring it to my attention that I lost a rent payment.  Maybe I would read entitlement into the I hann't cashed the other "gift" checks you have given me and they are worth as much as if not more than the rent check I wrote, you lost, and knew about for 6 months, and only cared that it screwed up your checking.

OP. I wonder-  Does your husband know about this uncashed check. He seems to like these living arrangements.  It sounded to me like you really don't want to live there, you state divorce would be your only alternative, to getting out of the house. What is his attraction to this house?  Was it his GPs?  Are you getting super low rent?  Is it some subconsicious attempt to keep up a relationship with his parents?  Are you sure you aren't trying to push the envelope and are trying to get evicted, or at least put another nail in the coffin of an already crappy IL relationship?

 

Edited by skipped
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I agree @skipped. There are too many 'non-business' layers to this. It should be a simple conversation, but for whatever reason(s) Incog seems to be making a bigger deal out of this than needed.

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Last April, I paid my rent  (as usual), then went out of town for two weeks. When I returned home I found my rent check had not cleared yet.  I immediately went to my apartment manager and asked about it. Turns out the check reader wouldn't read my check because I wrote in purple ink. 

It was my responsibility to find out of there was an issue.

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FIL went out of his way to wish ODD a Merry Christmas last year, ignored her for her bday this year. (Usually would get her a card and mail it to her acknowledging her bdays over the past several years.) Nothing this year. DH only got a text happy birthday from FIL and a separate one from MIL.this year. Again, both replied positively to the Happy Thanksgiving (sometimes FIL would reply with a nasty message in reply) so we weren't sure how or if they'd respond

IMO, a lot may have to do w/ what goes on in between. For example, if there were some "issues" between last year's Christmas and ODD's bday, that might explain the lack of a bday greeting. FIL shouldn't base his reactions to your kids on what's going on between the adults, but perhaps he does. (Perhaps not, just a thought.) Or maybe he thought the Christmas greeting would thaw ODD's feelings out towards him and MIL. And if it didn't, then he figured there's no point in sending her greetings.

So Christmas came and went and absolutely NOTHING from either PIL. Usually FIL sends us a card signed by himself and MIL, sometimes he'll follow up with a text, not always. This year NADA! Not ONE word, no card, no text, NOTHING. We are not sure what to make of it as it seemed to be going well with the back and forths so far the last few months. Not sure if they just expected DH to initiate all communications again or what.

Perhaps they did expect that. Given the strained relationship, in fact, maybe they've decided that they won't contact your family unless you contact them first. But why do you care? If I recall correctly, unless they apologize for past offenses, you and DH don't want much to do w/ them. So what difference does it make?

Now, I don't know if this is related or not... earlier this year, one of our rent checks to FIL was not cashed... .We do not know if he is sitting on it or if he threw it away.

Why would he deliberately not cash it/not get his money? And why would he do that w/ only one check and not any others? Sounds to me more like this was an oversight on FIL's part. As PPs have suggested, I think you're reading into it.

We could contact him about it but there's no guarantee he'd respond anyway, nor in a positive way and we are just not ready to take that chance, at least not right now.

Take what chance? That he won't respond? That would be rude, but as long as he cashes the check, the financial issue will be resolved. If he still doesn't cash the check, that's on him. Or maybe he'd reply w/ a nasty message? Ugh! That may hurt, especially DH. But you'll have met your responsibility and then you can ignore him for a while. Sure, it will set back the relationship for a while. But what do you think will happen if he accuses you of missing one month's rent? Or if you charge him the fee for stopping the check?

If I were you or DH, I would let FIL know about the uncashed check. Then I'd wait a week (or two weeks, or a month - whatever you and DH think is reasonable). Then, if FIL still didn't cash the check, I'd presume it lost and I'd cancel it. IME, the fee is relatively small, and no, I wouldn't charge him for it and cause more drama. But that's just me. Others may have a different solution...

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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Incog, IMO, this whole situation is very messy. I agree w/ Mame & skipped the check issue is simply a business matter, but a lot of emotional components are getting mixed in w/ it. Skipped is right, too, IMO, that renting from a relative can have its "perks," and, no doubt, that's true for you and DH, also. But, IMO, it also can have its drawbacks and you and yours are experiencing a lot of those. W/ all due disrespect to your ILs, they could probably say the same.

One of those drawbacks is the blurring of the financial and emotional issues. The check problem is one example. Another is this:

DH is hesitant to bring anything to him for repairs and will just do it himself. No, we do not bill him for any repairs we make. Yes, I know it's money out of our pockets we should not be paying. DH doesn't care, as to him it's not worth contacting him over and easier to do it himself.... We've done a lot of work to improve this place and FIL can see some of the improvements when he comes around to be nosy.

I'm not surprised that you don't charge FIL for the repairs you make yourselves. I don't know anyone who bills their landlord for repairs they choose to make on their own. And even though he's DH's dad, your FIL, etc., the man is also your landlord, as far as I can see..Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you forget that sometimes and see him only as "FIL."

But it sounds as if you've done more than just make repairs. Sounds as if you & DH have made some actual changes though you say nothing "major." Have I got that right? If so, then I have to chime in w/ skipped and say that tenants can't usually make actual changes w/o the landlord's approval. You two aren't seeking that b/c of the emotional issues involved. And while FIL may appreciate the "improvements," as no doubt, he should, sorry to say, he might not like them - he might just be letting it go b/c you're "family."  IMO, it's hard for relatives to see where the family/IL relationship leaves off and the landlord/tenant one begins.

But this is getting long, so I'll continue below...

Edited by RoseRed135

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What concerns me most, Incog, is that this situation seems to be causing a lot of conflict between you & DH:

I am so over the top done with them but DH still holds out an inkling of hope.

Ok, no doubt, this^^^ is very common in these scenarios. Often the AC keeps hoping long after the CIL has let it go/is ready to let it go. After all, these are the AC's/DH's parents.

Yes, I know it's money out of our pockets we should not be paying. DH doesn't care, as to him it's not worth contacting him over and easier to do it himself.

But this^^^ worries me a little more. Do you resent DH's spending the money on the repairs, etc? I know "DH doesn't care," but does that mean you do?

Believe me, I have gone back and forth and divorce has seemed an option at times. It is not an easy decision to make and I would never make it lightly.

I'm glad you wouldn't  "make it lightly." But have you considered marriage counseling? IMO, if "divorce" is even just a blip on your radar, counseling is in order.

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:16 PM, INCOGNITO said:

So again, would it be reasonable to charge him, take the fee for stop payment, out of the rent, should we have to write another check due to his negligence?

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

I think it would be unreasonable of you to charge your FIL a stop payment fee on this un-deposited rent check since a.) you owed it for rent and b.) the check is now an "expired check" since it is older than 6 months.   If FIL locates this check, and he is unable to cash it due to the age of the check, he would need to notify you/DH and request another rent check which he would be entitled to receive. 

Although you/DH reaped the benefit of FIL not cashing this rent check, your FIL has also reaped the benefit of the maintenance repairs you/DH have done on his property which would have been FIL's responsibility as the owner/landlord of this property.  Also, he is benefitting from you/DH not pursuing him to repair the kitchen floor which is "falling through" as that appears to be a habitability issue, which would require a prompt fix by FIL on his dime.  If he refused to repair the kitchen floor or tried to do a patchwork job that was not to code, my state law, for instance, would allow a tenant to deduct the money the tenant spent to repair the kitchen floor to code from the rent.

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On 12/27/2017 at 11:51 AM, INCOGNITO said:

Why is it my responsibility to remind folks about things they FORGOT about? I am around people all day long that FORGET about stuff. Not my problem. He balances his own check books. He can easily see what he has deposited or not. He has several businesses to keep track of and rentals, etc. Not my problem if he FORGOT.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

But it is your problem because you are the one upset about the money sitting in your account and it's your rent money you have to pay.  That's your responsibility.

I really don't think this would be a problem if you weren't so resentful towards your in-laws.  You say that your MIL sent a birthday text to your DH and it was positive, then DH took it upon himself to wish MIL and FIL a Happy Thanksgiving, that was a positive exchange.  Then your DH sent MIL a birthday text - which he had to initiate, its her birthday and then you say "we opted out" of sending a Christmas text.  So does that mean that you became involved and steered your DH towards not sending a text.

You say that FIL sent you a few checks that you didn't cash, that means your FIL would have had uncashed money sitting in his bank account but now you are upset with this one check that he hasn't cashed and the money sitting in your account.  Your upset over the inconvenience of it all, but wouldn't it have been an inconvenience to him when you did it to him.  I wonder who made the decision to not accept FIL's checks?

I would suggest that since your in-laws irritate you so much, that you leave it to your DH to sort this out and give yourself a break but I get the feeling that you are inserting yourself in the middle of it all.  I would be asking myself why?  It's a simple phone call to solve this dilemma but you refuse to do it, why?  Why does it bother you so much when your DH has any sort of relationship with his parents - is it because they were mean to you?

You are putting money into this house you claim you will never buy, why not go and buy a house of your own where your in-laws won't have any influence over it.  I think you are frustrated having your in-laws this involved in your life, but really the person you should be frustrated with is your DH because he is the one who won't leave.  You want the benefits of this property but you don't want your in-laws anywhere near you but you are constantly tied to them with things that need to be fixed, rent payments.  The problem isn't with your in-laws it's between you and your DH.

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A lot of the replies indicate a belief I am having a really hard time with the uncashed check. Not so. I don't like carrying over month to month but it is not ruining my life. I actually coudn't care less about it and it only recently crossed my mind because of Christmas. I often have checks go uncashed for a few weeks or longer. Also, we ALL have to deal with things we don't like or want to deal with, that's part of life. We deal with it. We work with what we have. No one has to agree how we work our relationship or lack of one with PIL's.

My OP was just a simple question, yeah- stupid, I know, to consider that maybe someone who continually tells us he wants a relationship with us but won't work on the relationship could possibly be coherent enough to not cash a check from us because he is, one way or another, gifting us all the gifts we have not had over the years.

As far as DH, we are 100% on the same page. I do what I have to, to help him deal with his pathetic excuse for a FOO, just like most of you do with your spouses/families.

Everything we've done for improvements have absolutely gone through FIL.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

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Yet there have been several comments on how to swiftly and neatly deal with this which have been met with excuses and fantasy scenarios...I'm suspecting this is more than a passing thought for you, whether you realize it or not.

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My IL's are not involved in any aspect of our lives other than taking a rent check every month, with occasional texts here and there and I do mean occasional. I could count on both hands the number of texts to and from IL's this year which is more than the last several years.

If you understood we initiated almost all contact for years prior to MIL CO'ing us, you'd understand the point I made about us not being the only ones to initiate contact, being the ONLY ones to carry the relationship..not a *** for tat, as someone suggested. Hard to give a complete history here which is why I said "a small recap" in the title. There is a LOT of info missing, still missing in this picture.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

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12 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

My OP was just a simple question, yeah- stupid, I know, to consider that maybe someone who continually tells us he wants a relationship with us but won't work on the relationship could possibly be coherent enough to not cash a check from us because he is, one way or another, gifting us all the gifts we have not had over the years.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

Wait... you mean you think he deliberately let it go as a gift to you and your family? Perhaps to "make up for" some/all of the gift checks you didn't cash? Is that what you're saying?

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I personally am mostly reacting to the fact that you don't seem to want to pay the rent. Your past relationship with your FIL has nothing to do with this.  I get this from your  "it's not my Job to babysit" comment.  I get that this isn't a usual landlord tenant relationship, but at a minimum, you need to pay rent.  Your husband seems to handle all the transactions with FIL.  You could have nothing to do with this. It is interesting to me that your husband is 100% on board with you not paying your FIL rent.  SHM

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41 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

stupid, I know, to consider that maybe someone who continually tells us he wants a relationship with us but won't work on the relationship could possibly be coherent enough to not cash a check from us because he is, one way or another, gifting us all the gifts we have not had over the years.

 

Instead of the reality that he's forgotten this deposit, you have him 'gifting' you a month's free to 'make up' for past things....perhaps he's waiting for the right moment to evict you for nonpayment of rent.

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I think it's very unlikely that he is gifting you a months free rent to make up for past things.  Even if this might be the case, I don't understand your thinking. You weren't willing to accept the BD gift checks so why are you willing to accept free rent in lieu of birthday gifts? 

I suppose it's possible that he didn't cash the check because he knows you've made improvements to the house (through his nebbing) an wants to reimburse you. If it is the first two scenarios, I agree he should discuss this with your DH.  Texts are so impersonal IMO, you aren't really even talking your just giving facts.

 IMO  It's most likely that he simply lost the check.  In which case he wouldn't know whether or not to contact you.

This reminds me of my vet who diagnosed my dog with a deadly illness because he had diarrhea a cough and lethargy.  He advised me to put the dog down. The dog had kennel cough and worms.  What is the most likely scenario here?   Why not just ask?

You don't seem to want to know the reason.  Excuse being you don't want to deal with him.  Lame excue- You don't have to.  Your husband can.   Plus- IMO this goes beyond relationship issues.You are responsible for paying the rent, so you are responsible to find out if he really wants rent.  But you don't seem to want that. The only reason I can think of that you don't want to find out is that you like things the way they are- not paying one months rent and rationalizing it by saying FIL is doing this on purpose, he really doesn't want the rent money.

 

ETA In a nutshell, I think your using your relationship problems with your FIL to take advantage of him and rationalize it as "he deserves it"

Edited by skipped
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Iyou are willing to contact FIL when there is something major that needs to be repaired, I don't see why there is an issue about contacting him about the check.  As mentioned in prior responses, all it would take is a txt saying that the check has not cleared the bank.  

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Sorry, that was If you are willing to contact ......

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And yes, I would go to any business that a checked had not cleared and asked about it.  If I know I owe it and it hasn't for some reason cleared, I know the honest thing to do is make sure I have made every effort on my part to correct the mistake even if the mistake was not mine.  Better to have a clear conscious and know you have paid for what you owe, regardless of how you feel about the person

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2 hours ago, RoseRed135 said:

Wait... you mean you think he deliberately let it go as a gift to you and your family? Perhaps to "make up for" some/all of the gift checks you didn't cash? Is that what you're saying?

Yes, I was simply asking if anyone thought it even a remote possibility since lots of posters complain about the IL's forcing themselves on others even when asked not to contact them at all. Giving gifts even when they were told to stop, that kind of stuff. That and/or to make up for the relationship as a whole but that doesn't make sense for the timing, eh. I know it bothers him, the relationship being the way it is. As I said in my OP, I am probably reading too much into it.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

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