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AndreaMSW

What would you do?

63 posts in this topic

Cupcake55  - that thought crossed my mind

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BSW - i am not going to act on anything just yet - that would certainly damage my relationship with my husband for sure.  I don't think my DH is at all mindful or aware of how much of a hold MIL has on him....i mean he will not always do what she wants him to do but a fair amount of times he does do what she wants him to do.  Just as another example of how looney she can be - ever since my kids were infants (and one still is) she has been convinced that they are lactose intolerant (they aren't).  She often emails me articles about the benefits of almond milk, coconut milk, etc and i should do x,y,z with my children.  i usually just ignore what she sends me and i keep doing as i'm doing.  Finally a few weeks ago, i told her that we simply don't believe as she does so no, i'm not going to start my kids on x,y,z...she hasn't spoken to me since...which i'm ok with (and i was respectful in how i responded to her).  And i know she's giving me the silent treatment because she's been emailing DH about dining room chairs we should have and she doesn't include me on them...or when she'll FaceTime she'll pretend i'm not sitting in the room and just talk to the kids...i'm perfectly fine with it.  but it goes to show how she reacts when anyone has an opinion that is different from hers.

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Just now, AndreaMSW said:

BSW - i am not going to act on anything just yet - that would certainly damage my relationship with my husband for sure.  I don't think my DH is at all mindful or aware of how much of a hold MIL has on him....i mean he will not always do what she wants him to do but a fair amount of times he does do what she wants him to do.  Just as another example of how looney she can be - ever since my kids were infants (and one still is) she has been convinced that they are lactose intolerant (they aren't).  She often emails me articles about the benefits of almond milk, coconut milk, etc and i should do x,y,z with my children.  i usually just ignore what she sends me and i keep doing as i'm doing.  Finally a few weeks ago, i told her that we simply don't believe as she does so no, i'm not going to start my kids on x,y,z...she hasn't spoken to me since...which i'm ok with (and i was respectful in how i responded to her).  And i know she's giving me the silent treatment because she's been emailing DH about dining room chairs we should have and she doesn't include me on them...or when she'll FaceTime she'll pretend i'm not sitting in the room and just talk to the kids...i'm perfectly fine with it.  but it goes to show how she reacts when anyone has an opinion that is different from hers.

So greater freedom for you - perhaps just as well.

Have you thought about not sitting in the room when she FTs w/ the kids (as long as DH is there)? So she can't have the (apparent) satisfaction of ignoring you? Or do you prefer to be there, anyhow?

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RoseRed - i don't feel the need to be present when she is face timing with the kids...usually when she FaceTimes, we use my laptop which is usually on our dining room table and she happens to FaceTime when i'm making dinner or something so it's obvious i'm in the general area.  sometimes i will leave the room though

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Ok, I get it, Andrea.

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I have another take on this....why borrow trouble at this time? Everyone is going on about how upset SIL is going to be once she does find out. What if....it would be a relief to her to not end up with the responsibility of someone elses kids? What if this would just be creating unneeded family drama over the remote liklihood of you and your husband ever needing to turn over that responsibility to someone else?

The person who needs to know, who is the person who WILL end up with your kids, should tragedy strike is the only one who really needs to know anything about your will change.

Before our kids were grown, my bestie entrusted me to be the one who would raise her kids should the unthinkable happen to her and her husband. While I was honored that she trusted me with her childrens lives and I absolutely would have done it for her, it was a great relief when our kids were old enough that she wouldnt need me to finish raising them. Had she decided to chose someone else, it would not have hurt me even if she did not tell me until the will was read. This girl is the sister I never had. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Andrea, I also handle my family and DH handles his.  If your Dh is adamant against telling your SIL, I wouldn't tell your SIL yourself.  Your relationship with him comes first and he can decide how he wants to handle the relationship with your SIL.  I wouldn't break that trust with him.  Not to mention your MIL will get all upset and it could lead to really big problems with your DH, especially considering he listens to what MIL is saying.

I would think about some of the suggestions to sit down and discuss this with him.  It sounds like his decision is really MIL's decision and that's the problem.  I would get him to think it through himself and see how he feels and then he can make the final decision. ie what if she finds out and is hurt, the lawyer has suggested you tell everyone involved including your SIL, should you do what the lawyer advises or your MIL?

If your lawyer is telling you to tell anyone who would contest, I don't know how manipulative your MIL is but it does sound likes she likes her own way.  If you only tell MIL and not SIL then your MIL can easily lie and say she was never told and still contest the will.  Simply to get the outcome she wants.  Although the likelihood of this happening is very small.  I'm not sure I would give that as an example for your DH, he would probably get upset so I can't remember who suggested the letter with the will, that could be a good option if you decide not to tell SIL.

Edited by Layla

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54 minutes ago, Layla said:

Andrea, I also handle my family and DH handles his.  If your Dh is adamant against telling your SIL, I wouldn't tell your SIL yourself.  Your relationship with him comes first and he can decide how he wants to handle the relationship with your SIL.  I wouldn't break that trust with him.  Not to mention your MIL will get all upset and it could lead to really big problems with your DH, especially considering he listens to what MIL is saying.

I would think about some of the suggestions to sit down and discuss this with him.  It sounds like his decision is really MIL's decision and that's the problem.  I would get him to think it through himself and see how he feels and then he can make the final decision. ie what if she finds out and is hurt, the lawyer has suggested you tell everyone involved including your SIL, should you do what the lawyer advises or your MIL?

If your lawyer is telling you to tell anyone who would contest, I don't know how manipulative your MIL is but it does sound likes she likes her own way.  If you only tell MIL and not SIL then your MIL can easily lie and say she was never told and still contest the will.  Simply to get the outcome she wants.  Although the likelihood of this happening is very small.  I'm not sure I would give that as an example for your DH, he would probably get upset so I can't remember who suggested the letter with the will, that could be a good option if you decide not to tell SIL.

The above in red strikes me as an interesting comment, made several times in this thread. DW relationship with DH comes first; however, DH relationship with MIL comes first. I know DH is not here to see it in writing that his relationship with his DW "should" come first but no one has addressed that yet.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

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6 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

The above in red strikes me as an interesting comment, made several times in this thread. DW relationship with DH comes first; however, DH relationship with MIL comes first. I know DH is not here to see it in writing that his relationship with his DW "should" come first but no one has addressed that yet.

Anonymous poster hash: 0d7e3...b44

This^^^ is a problem, IMO. And giving me the idea for another thread:

 

 

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9 hours ago, Weesheart75 said:

I have another take on this....why borrow trouble at this time? Everyone is going on about how upset SIL is going to be once she does find out. What if....it would be a relief to her to not end up with the responsibility of someone elses kids? What if this would just be creating unneeded family drama over the remote liklihood of you and your husband ever needing to turn over that responsibility to someone else?

The person who needs to know, who is the person who WILL end up with your kids, should tragedy strike is the only one who really needs to know anything about your will change.

Before our kids were grown, my bestie entrusted me to be the one who would raise her kids should the unthinkable happen to her and her husband. While I was honored that she trusted me with her childrens lives and I absolutely would have done it for her, it was a great relief when our kids were old enough that she wouldnt need me to finish raising them. Had she decided to chose someone else, it would not have hurt me even if she did not tell me until the will was read. This girl is the sister I never had. 

 

Layla, I tend to agree with this as well. When I said upset, I was strictly referring to the idea that she might be upset that she hadn't been told, not that she would be upset that she was no longer named guardian. I feel like she might also be relieved, because while her first DH was in agreement, who knows how her new DH feels or if he's even on board. 

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All good points and RoseRed - an interesting topic for sure - DH still adamant we not tell his sister  - however he is ok with the idea of writing a letter to her that would be in our will...but like many people have mentioned the bigger issue is that DH and I should be each other's priority - DH is at least thinking about going to marriage counselling with me because he at least agrees we have issues that we need to sort out.  He told me last night that to say "no" to his mother makes him feel like he's being disrespectful to the woman who raised him.  I responded that setting boundaries is not only a respectful thing to do its also healthy.  thanks for all the feedback

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11 hours ago, Weesheart75 said:

I have another take on this....why borrow trouble at this time? Everyone is going on about how upset SIL is going to be once she does find out. What if....it would be a relief to her to not end up with the responsibility of someone elses kids? What if this would just be creating unneeded family drama over the remote liklihood of you and your husband ever needing to turn over that responsibility to someone else?

The person who needs to know, who is the person who WILL end up with your kids, should tragedy strike is the only one who really needs to know anything about your will change.

Before our kids were grown, my bestie entrusted me to be the one who would raise her kids should the unthinkable happen to her and her husband. While I was honored that she trusted me with her childrens lives and I absolutely would have done it for her, it was a great relief when our kids were old enough that she wouldnt need me to finish raising them. Had she decided to chose someone else, it would not have hurt me even if she did not tell me until the will was read. This girl is the sister I never had. 

 

Nobody knows if she would be upset or relieved -- all of that is fantasy- In real life, however, the time was taken to ask her to take on a responsibility and she agreed- In real life, as far as we know, no effort has been made to notify her that circumstances have changed- More or less, what you've said, the way I read it, is let's pretend- Let's pretend that this woman was never asked, that she never agreed, that since she did agree she's been relieved of her responsibility-

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39 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Nobody knows if she would be upset or relieved -- all of that is fantasy- In real life, however, the time was taken to ask her to take on a responsibility and she agreed- In real life, as far as we know, no effort has been made to notify her that circumstances have changed- More or less, what you've said, the way I read it, is let's pretend- Let's pretend that this woman was never asked, that she never agreed, that since she did agree she's been relieved of her responsibility-

no effort has been made to notify her that things have changed...at least not in the sense that myself or DH have ever made an attempt to talk to her about it.  however not for one second was i ever ok with not telling her.  When DH returned from visiting his parents and he told me about the conversation with MIL i immediately protested.  DH became very agitated was clear that we were not discussing it now.  at that time i was also very pregnant so i figured  we had other things to worry about.  and i didn't bring it up again until recently.  I've always stood by the you deal with your family and i'll deal with mine.  however this post has made me rethink some of that idea.  does that make it right or take away my responsibility in this issue?  No it certainly doesn't.  however its not as black and white as you're trying to make it seem.  and as much as i would like to, i can't go back in time and change how we handled things.  What happened, happened...and i was seeking advice on what we or I do now...not what i should have done at the time

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38 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Nobody knows if she would be upset or relieved -- all of that is fantasy- In real life, however, the time was taken to ask her to take on a responsibility and she agreed- In real life, as far as we know, no effort has been made to notify her that circumstances have changed- More or less, what you've said, the way I read it, is let's pretend- Let's pretend that this woman was never asked, that she never agreed, that since she did agree she's been relieved of her responsibility-

Does an effort need to be made to inform SIL "that circumstances have changed?" I'm no legal expert, but to my knowledge, no one has a right to know what's in someone else' will, until the person is gone, unless somebody is being asked to do something.  Therefore, yes, they had to discuss w/ her the idea of her being guardian for their kids, but no, they may not have to tall her that's changed. It would be nice, and, yes, I think Andrea and DH should tell her. But I don't thinkit's required. Notice the lawyer didn't say anything about having to notify SIL.

@AndreaMSW - Hopefully, you and DH live long and healthy lives and never need anyone to take custody of your kids! :)

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Posted (edited)

50 minutes ago, AndreaMSW said:

no effort has been made to notify her that things have changed...at least not in the sense that myself or DH have ever made an attempt to talk to her about it.  however not for one second was i ever ok with not telling her.  When DH returned from visiting his parents and he told me about the conversation with MIL i immediately protested.  DH became very agitated was clear that we were not discussing it now.  at that time i was also very pregnant so i figured  we had other things to worry about.  and i didn't bring it up again until recently.  I've always stood by the you deal with your family and i'll deal with mine.  however this post has made me rethink some of that idea.  does that make it right or take away my responsibility in this issue?  No it certainly doesn't.  however its not as black and white as you're trying to make it seem.  and as much as i would like to, i can't go back in time and change how we handled things.  What happened, happened...and i was seeking advice on what we or I do now...not what i should have done at the time

I think everyone is evasive to some degree, that they take the occasional risk and take on the responsibility for doing so- Obviously you see the progression /  pattern of how your current situation came to be- You can own that, forgive yourself even if you choose not to fix the sister in-law scenario- And then going forward use that knowledge wisely by not letting it happen again- Your husband has a foot, he used it, he told you what you couldn't do- You have a foot, too- Use it in the future when you see that pattern / loop headed for you yet again-

Edited by Komorebi
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I have a question...how does "everyone else but SIL" know about this change? I get the part that xBIL would know he drops off the list at the time of the divorce...MIL knows because DH told her. Who else knows and why?

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On 1/8/2018 at 9:15 PM, AndreaMSW said:

 

back to the issue at hand - DH is definitely not wanting to say something to SIL because MIL asked him not to...but you're right in that it's also because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings.  I don't want to hurt her feelings either, but i feel like at some point she is going to find out anyway and she'll be more hurt that we didn't tell her.

Normally I wouldn't recommend going against something my spouse didn't want/like but in this case I would have to sit him down and say if you don't tell her I will.  It is NOT fair for his sister to not be told.  At this point there is no way her feelings won't be hurt but I'd be darn sure that I was there when she was told so you could make sure to make it clear that you were not the one that made the choice to not tell her....it was her own mother!

On 1/8/2018 at 9:15 PM, AndreaMSW said:

Ex BIL knows  though because at the time we drafted our original will, the lawyer actually put SIL and whomever she may be residing with or partner...something along those lines. he's not mentioned by name because divorces happen.  When SIL and ex BIL had decided to separate, they told us before they told anyone else because we had just drafted our will and they wanted us to know in case that would change anything for us.

SIL was decent enough to tell you and DH first about the divorce because of the importance of how their divorce would/could effect your choice.  I doubt she would have been surprised that you all changed your will however at this point she will be hurt that it took so long to tell her.

My DH had to make a decision on who we would want to be our girls guardian should anything happen to us too.  He wanted his older brother & I wanted my sister.  My problem with his brother was the brother's wife.  I didn't trust her to take the best care of my kids.  She may have had children but I knew if there was a fire that her kids would be saved...and if the fire department got there in time mine would be too.  No way would I agree.  I knew my sister would do everything she could to raise my girls as her own.  She didn't/doesn't have children of her own but she would have done much better for them.

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

I have a question...how does "everyone else but SIL" know about this change? I get the part that xBIL would know he drops off the list at the time of the divorce...MIL knows because DH told her. Who else knows and why?

well my sister and her husband know because we were wanting to appoint them guardianship...my twin sister knows because she had assumed we would choose her and asked me about it...i wouldn't choose her because she has a son with severe autism and cognitive delay so she has her hands full as it is...so i told her why we didn't choose her and she knows who we chose.  my parents know because my twin tells them everything (which is a different issue all together)...my patents though may know things but they don't interfere or give their opinions on such matters and are generally supportive of what we choose.  i have 5 additional siblings and they don't know as far as i know

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10 minutes ago, AndreaMSW said:

well my sister and her husband know because we were wanting to appoint them guardianship...my twin sister knows because she had assumed we would choose her and asked me about it...i wouldn't choose her because she has a son with severe autism and cognitive delay so she has her hands full as it is...so i told her why we didn't choose her and she knows who we chose.  my parents know because my twin tells them everything (which is a different issue all together)...my patents though may know things but they don't interfere or give their opinions on such matters and are generally supportive of what we choose.  i have 5 additional siblings and they don't know as far as i know

Then show DH how to frame this in the business-like reference it should have always been to tell his sister. It isn't some deep secret to be hidden away. 

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

Does an effort need to be made to inform SIL "that circumstances have changed?" I'm no legal expert, but to my knowledge, no one has a right to know what's in someone else' will, until the person is gone, unless somebody is being asked to do something.  Therefore, yes, they had to discuss w/ her the idea of her being guardian for their kids, but no, they may not have to tall her that's changed. It would be nice, and, yes, I think Andrea and DH should tell her. But I don't thinkit's required. Notice the lawyer didn't say anything about having to notify SIL.

@AndreaMSW - Hopefully, you and DH live long and healthy lives and never need anyone to take custody of your kids! :)

I have no idea at all if it is required by law- Then again I have no idea if a law exists that prohibits wives from interacting with their husband's family and vice versa -- yet it is often advised- It won't be long before the practice will be considered an amusing piece of historical quackery .. :)

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3 hours ago, Mame925 said:

I have a question...how does "everyone else but SIL" know about this change? I get the part that xBIL would know he drops off the list at the time of the divorce...MIL knows because DH told her. Who else knows and why?

The problem with secrets is they usually come out..........maybe it won't happen unless something happens to you and then it will come out in a more hurtful way

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48 minutes ago, JustaGrandma said:

The problem with secrets is they usually come out..........maybe it won't happen unless something happens to you and then it will come out in a more hurtful way

Well that was one of my points in discussing with DH - He seems to think it won't come out because he actually trusts his mother enough to not spill the beans but i don't have that much faith in her.  MIL also does not like SIL's partner but will usually keep her mouth shut in his presence (but will complain to all of us)...if SIL's partner were to do something to really really upset MIL, I can see MIL saying to SIL something along the lines of "look what kind of person you chose to be with?  Look what it's done, and do you know that because of him, your brother and SIL changed their will" or something along those lines.  as i said earlier in this thread, i believe it gives MIL some sort of sense of power of knowing something about SIL that SIL does not know...and trust me she will use it when she feels the need to use it.

 

Or she would say something to SIL's partner about it...but of course he would tell SIL - which is why we need to tell her...better it comes from us than her

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How exactly does one adult forbid another adult to do something.  Curious as to her exact words. I can't imagine forbidding my children to do anything.  If I felt strongly enough about it I say I strongly advise you not to tell your sister (and I would have a good reason- at least I hope so).  Why exactly is your husband agreeing to go along with his mother "forbidding" him to do something.  You have said that your husband doesn't always do what your MIL says.  So obviously he does go against her at times.    What is your husbands  side of the story? Why doesn't he want to tell SIL.   Is there something about your SIL that it makes any sense whatsoever that the two of them (MIL and husband agreeing with MIL) that this isn't a good idea.  Does he often make decisions that don't make sense?

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37 minutes ago, skipped said:

How exactly does one adult forbid another adult to do something.  Curious as to her exact words. I can't imagine forbidding my children to do anything.  If I felt strongly enough about it I say I strongly advise you not to tell your sister (and I would have a good reason- at least I hope so).  Why exactly is your husband agreeing to go along with his mother "forbidding" him to do something.  You have said that your husband doesn't always do what your MIL says.  So obviously he does go against her at times.    What is your husbands  side of the story? Why doesn't he want to tell SIL.   Is there something about your SIL that it makes any sense whatsoever that the two of them (MIL and husband agreeing with MIL) that this isn't a good idea.  Does he often make decisions that don't make sense?

DH maintains that he's not telling his SIL strictly because he does not want to hurt her feelings...though i've given him about half a dozen reasons we could give her that are really more practical, rather than personally not liking her partner.  This is what he says and he says it's not because his mother told him not to, but i know better because he's not making any sense.  I wasn't present for this conversation he had with MIL.  According to DH, MIL understood our choice (because she doesn't like SIL's partner either) however told him that under no circumstances, is he to tell his sister.  Knowing my DH he probably didn't verbally respond to her, which to my MIL is implied agreement.

 

He will go against her for "little things".  Early in our marriage, before we had kids...she was painting our house (interior...we did not ask her to she insisted but i hate painting so i was ok with it).  She wanted to repaint our bedroom ceiling and DH did not want it painted..so she dragged me into it, wanting me to agree with her, i told them both that they are adults and need to act like it and not even joking, she stomped her feet upstairs having a temper tantrum like a 2 yr. old.  but DH stuck to his guns with that one (though she painted it anyway)..seriously lots of red flags i should have paid more attention to then...so he verbally spoke up but she did what she wanted to do anyway.

When i was in labor with DD (our oldest and her first grandchild) i did not want MIL in the room...i never told MIL this but DH and i had spoken about it.  When she showed up at the hospital and just walked into my room, DH would not ask her to leave because he didn't want to upset her.  So he put the needs of his mother ahead of laboring wife.  DH will say in hindsight that if he had to do it over again he would have asked her to leave.  At the time he knew i'd be annoyed by him not asking her to leave but he was blissfully hoping that i would be so overjoyed by the arrival of our daughter that i'd overlook this.

 

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"It will hurt her feelings"  makes perfect sense to me.  It will/ might hurt her feelings.  He's just hoping she won't find out.

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