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Momofgirls

Why do MIL and DIL seem to have more problems??

74 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

Ok, I know your MIL is very difficult, and ITA that she should not move in w/ you or vice versa. But the bolded  shows why some MILs feel they are "darned if they do and darned if they don't." If MIL tries to cope on her own she "wants to be a martyr." If she shows signs of becoming dependent, "... that's not going to happen." (I realize the 2 comments were made by 2 different people, and again, I agree, she and FIL definitely should find other options.)

no the whole martyr thing is that MIL may act like she wants to do it on her own...however it's attention seeking to some extent - because then she go "woe is me" type thing...and that's SIL's take on the situation, not mine necessarily.  I would never ever in a million years live with her nor invite her to live with me...but that doesn't mean we can't support she and FIL in other ways.  Possibly move slightly closer to them or whatever (maybe -my only point to DH is that they need to talk about what the expectations are.  I'm not against being helpful when / if we can but our version of "help" may not look like what she is envisioning or may be envisioning 

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

Um, okay, people... getting back to MIL/DIL problems...

Rose, the husband/son is every bit a part of the discussion -- he isn't separate from the entanglement- He gets let off the hook and left out of the picture often- He's not just a prop in the background, he's what the discussion depends upon- Without him there wouldn't be a mother in-law to complain about or the even greater troubles that rise up once children come along if he hasn't snipped the apron strings by then- How is his reluctance to cut them solely a mother in-law daughter in-law issue?

Edited by Komorebi

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My SonIL (the first generation ChineseAmerican) worries constantly about me living alone...he's not a big picture kind of guy, so my independent nature is lost on him. I told DD I could move in with them....then we both started laughing...not gonna happen. I've decided when i can't live here anymore (stairs, distance, etc) that I'd buy a smaller place near DS/DIL, who have kids ages 4-11, so will be stable for a very long time. 

The plan will not include being a problem for my DIL...who I like very much...

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50 minutes ago, Mame925 said:

My SonIL (the first generation ChineseAmerican) worries constantly about me living alone...he's not a big picture kind of guy, so my independent nature is lost on him. I told DD I could move in with them....then we both started laughing...not gonna happen. I've decided when i can't live here anymore (stairs, distance, etc) that I'd buy a smaller place near DS/DIL, who have kids ages 4-11, so will be stable for a very long time. 

The plan will not include being a problem for my DIL...who I like very much...

We are talking about the whole "what to do when mom can't live alone business" now. Believe it or not her DIL wants to move in with my mom.  Her culture has enormous feelings of obligation toward their "elders". 

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42 minutes ago, nonna23 said:

We are talking about the whole "what to do when mom can't live alone business" now. Believe it or not her DIL wants to move in with my mom.  Her culture has enormous feelings of obligation toward their "elders". 

That sense of obligation is very common is many cultures...it may work for some, but when I can't manage on my own anymore, I'll go to assisted living. I would have always made sure my mom was well cared for, but would never have considered moving into her home or her into mine...I might have taken in my dad and perhaps my favorite uncle, both had open helpful attitudes that would have integrated into the household rather than everyone having to capitulate to them. There-in lies the difference.

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1 hour ago, Mame925 said:

That sense of obligation is very common is many cultures...it may work for some, but when I can't manage on my own anymore, I'll go to assisted living. I would have always made sure my mom was well cared for, but would never have considered moving into her home or her into mine...I might have taken in my dad and perhaps my favorite uncle, both had open helpful attitudes that would have integrated into the household rather than everyone having to capitulate to them. There-in lies the difference.

I'm w/you, Mame, but for different reasons.

I worked in home care. I've seen caregivers end up in hospital, from sheer exhaustion and stress of caregiving for an adult. I know of several cases where the caregiver died before the patient, and the patient ended up in a facility. I know of another caregiver that ended up disabled as a result of caregiving (there's a reason facilities solely use mechanical lifts, never, EVER a person to person transfer anymore). I watched marriages disintegrate under the strain. I watched children hurt and resentful b/c everything *had* to revolve around the caregiving. I've had to call emergency services twice, due to violence. One was an attack on the family caregiver, the other I was providing respite, caregiver was out, and the client decided I'd broken in (forgot that I'd been introduced, and the scrubs didn't help at all) and came at me with a knife.

I've seen too much, know too much, and refuse to do that to people I love.

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7 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Rose, the husband/son is every bit a part of the discussion -- he isn't separate from the entanglement- He gets let off the hook and left out of the picture often- He's not just a prop in the background, he's what the discussion depends upon- Without him there wouldn't be a mother in-law to complain about or the even greater troubles that rise up once children come along if he hasn't snipped the apron strings by then- How is his reluctance to cut them solely a mother in-law daughter in-law issue?

Of course, DH/DS is part of the discussion. In fact, posters here - including me - often tell a MIL/DIL that her main problem is w/ DS/DH.

So I suppose I should have said, " Um, okay, people... getting back to MIL/DIL  and DH/DS problems."

But my concern was that your prior post went off in a totally different direction, talking about "things" (and not in relation to family or IL concerns).

But wait... did you possibly post it in the wrong thread?

 

Edited by RoseRed135

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5 hours ago, nonna23 said:

We are talking about the whole "what to do when mom can't live alone business" now. Believe it or not her DIL wants to move in with my mom.  Her culture has enormous feelings of obligation toward their "elders". 

How lovely of DIL, cultural or not.

But does your mom want this? And will DIL accept it if mom says, "No, thank you."

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You know my MIL had her own mother live with her once she could not manage on her own..i think DH was in high school.  The structure of their house helped though because they had the main house, two apartments connected out front and a basement apartment - MIL's mother lived in one of the apartments, but MIL cared for her daily.  And MIL and her own mother did not get along with each other at all.  DH says that no one really liked his MGM because she was opinionated...a lot like his mother.  And the martyr thing comes in here too...according to DH and SIL, MIL's has 5 other siblings and the ones that lived fairly close by offered to help as well but MIL apparently did not really allow this or everything had to be on her terms, so they largely backed off and MIL ended up doing it solo...to this day she's still bitter about it without understanding the role she played in that.

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DM took MGM in, at one point, but found caring for her to be physically way to difficult, as MGM fell easily, etc. Reluctantly, she had her placed in a nursing home where she fared much better.

SisIL was the main one taking care of MIL till that became untenable. But even while she was still able to care for her physically, the tension in the house was palpable. MIL was getting more belligerent and unreasonable as her Alheimer's progressed, and SIL, understandably, had no idea how to handle it.

Some families seem to be able to do this quite easily and amicably, but others, no. It depends, I guess, on personalities, the nature of the relationships involved, and, of course, they type of illness or disability the elderly person is suffering from, if any.

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1 hour ago, RoseRed135 said:

How lovely of DIL, cultural or not.

But does your mom want this? And will DIL accept it if mom says, "No, thank you."

My mom is very on board with it. Her greatest fear is a nursing home.  We kept my bedridden dad home for 15 months before he passed.  If DIL changes her mind, then I will move in with mom.  

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Both of my grandmothers and my Dad went to nursing homes once they needed live in round the clock help.  My Mother has been in in house therapy after she broke her hip.  At this moment she is "visiting" my brother, his daughter and his granddaughter.  Brother is there because his house burnt.  Neice is an RN at an assisted living place and GD doesn't drive yet, so brother is very busy in his retirement.  Mother who is 90 but had been living alone, will return home when she passes her kidney stone.  Brother might go with her if she needs more care.

My point is, in my FOO it is common to go to a nursing physically full time care is needed.

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I know several individuals who cared for their aging, ailing relative either in their own home or that of the relative- This was a task that was commonly taken on by families in the past, all members of the family lending a hand regardless of the age of the individual that was ailing -- mother in-laws / daughter in-laws  were in the mix- When being brought up with the practice of caring for the infirm within the home I can "only imagine" that one became relatively conditioned to what would look like by todays standards one big, unmanageable mess until the individual became well or until their death- Yet, somehow, they dealt with it- Laid them out on the table where they ate to wash the body, say good-bye and then return it to the earth- My sister is currently in a nursing home and about to be changed over to Hospice and my brother also in a nursing home could go either way- Her facility is immaculate while his is the opposite- At hers death looks neat and tidy while at his it doesn't- I've a niece that works in a nursing home who is currently receiving physical therapy from an injury sustained when lifting a patient- My brother is nursing an injury from not being lifted with care- The injury situation can go either way- My mother is 98, she fell down last month and laughed about it- She had lost her footing while looking out the window waiting for the mail to arrive- She reached out for the nearest thing to grab onto which happened to be a pole lamp LMAO .. and slowly slid down the pole to the floor .. LMAO .. she was teased for wanting to become a stripper at this stage of the game .. She has always laughed about such things, let out an "OUCH!" and then a chuckle ..

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8 hours ago, Mame925 said:

That sense of obligation is very common is many cultures...it may work for some, but when I can't manage on my own anymore, I'll go to assisted living. I would have always made sure my mom was well cared for, but would never have considered moving into her home or her into mine...I might have taken in my dad and perhaps my favorite uncle, both had open helpful attitudes that would have integrated into the household rather than everyone having to capitulate to them. There-in lies the difference.

In my family Assisted Living is the clear choice.

My folks, GPs, his folks (everybody old I know) selected lovely AL for themselves. Self selecting may be a part of why AL works well, skin in the game. We oversaw all the care of my parents and PILs, in AL, but not in our home.

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

I know several individuals who cared for their aging, ailing relative either in their own home or that of the relative- This was a task that was commonly taken on by families in the past, all members of the family lending a hand regardless of the age of the individual that was ailing -- mother in-laws / daughter in-laws  were in the mix- When being brought up with the practice of caring for the infirm within the home I can "only imagine" that one became relatively conditioned to what would look like by todays standards one big, unmanageable mess until the individual became well or until their death- Yet, somehow, they dealt with it- Laid them out on the table where they ate to wash the body, say good-bye and then return it to the earth- My sister is currently in a nursing home and about to be changed over to Hospice and my brother also in a nursing home could go either way- Her facility is immaculate while his is the opposite- At hers death looks neat and tidy while at his it doesn't- I've a niece that works in a nursing home who is currently receiving physical therapy from an injury sustained when lifting a patient- My brother is nursing an injury from not being lifted with care- The injury situation can go either way- My mother is 98, she fell down last month and laughed about it- She had lost her footing while looking out the window waiting for the mail to arrive- She reached out for the nearest thing to grab onto which happened to be a pole lamp LMAO .. and slowly slid down the pole to the floor .. LMAO .. she was teased for wanting to become a stripper at this stage of the game .. She has always laughed about such things, let out an "OUCH!" and then a chuckle ..

So deeply  sorry about your sister and hope her last days are as peaceful, comfortable and pain-free as possible. Sorry about your brother, too, and that he is in a less well-cared-for facility. Also, sorry about his injury. (Is there any talk of having him moved to a cleaner facility w/ perhaps more competent staff?)

Also, sorry about your niece's injury. Some of those who work w/ the sick and the elderly deserve medals, IMO. She sounds like she's one of them.

But your mom sounds awesome! 98! Wow! Best to her! And hope she's able to keep her independence - and her sense of humor - for as long as possible!

Edited by RoseRed135

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1 hour ago, JanelleK said:

In my family Assisted Living is the clear choice.

My folks, GPs, his folks (everybody old I know) selected lovely AL for themselves. Self selecting may be a part of why AL works well, skin in the game. We oversaw all the care of my parents and PILs, in AL, but not in our home.

No one in our working class family can afford assisted living. My DM would have lost my dad's. SS if he went I to a nursing home. Besides my DM would not have allowed him to go into one. 

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1 hour ago, nonna23 said:

No one in our working class family can afford assisted living. My DM would have lost my dad's. SS if he went I to a nursing home. Besides my DM would not have allowed him to go into one. 

My PILs were very working class, they had no money. They did without, lived frugally and saved. They sold their home to pay for AL. However, to your point: not everyone spends the same, values the same, OR lives in the same state. Recently I read the the number of states using their medicaid funds on AL, nursing homes and in home care is now over 40 states. So, there is help out there in over 80% of the states, currently. Hopefully next go at medical care - Congress will fix this mess for ALL states.

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2 hours ago, JanelleK said:

My PILs were very working class, they had no money. They did without, lived frugally and saved. They sold their home to pay for AL. However, to your point: not everyone spends the same, values the same, OR lives in the same state. Recently I read the the number of states using their medicaid funds on AL, nursing homes and in home care is now over 40 states. So, there is help out there in over 80% of the states, currently. Hopefully next go at medical care - Congress will fix this mess for ALL states.

Not in Texas. ...Congress is set to slash much of Medicaid which paus for most of the nursing home care in Texas. 

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15 hours ago, nonna23 said:

Not in Texas. ...Congress is set to slash much of Medicaid which paus for most of the nursing home care in Texas. 

:sad:

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On 2/14/2018 at 5:28 AM, RoseRed135 said:

Of course, DH/DS is part of the discussion. In fact, posters here - including me - often tell a MIL/DIL that her main problem is w/ DS/DH.

So I suppose I should have said, " Um, okay, people... getting back to MIL/DIL  and DH/DS problems."

But my concern was that your prior post went off in a totally different direction, talking about "things" (and not in relation to family or IL concerns).

But wait... did you possibly post it in the wrong thread?

 

Yes, time and again the daughter in-law talks a blue streak about the mother in-law needing to "learn" mutual respect while at the same time what the daughter in-law is offering her husband in essence is preferential treatment by cutting her husband slack because after all he is "nuclear" family, not extended- The double standard is glaring as is the general practice of setting men on pedestals- When the husband doesn't "get it" or pretends not to his involvement in the problem is further reduced every time his wife takes his crap and responsibility and shovels it onto his mother -- which he more often than not, it seems to me, thinks is fine and dandy- 

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18 hours ago, JanelleK said:

My PILs were very working class, they had no money. They did without, lived frugally and saved. They sold their home to pay for AL. However, to your point: not everyone spends the same, values the same, OR lives in the same state. Recently I read the the number of states using their medicaid funds on AL, nursing homes and in home care is now over 40 states. So, there is help out there in over 80% of the states, currently. Hopefully next go at medical care - Congress will fix this mess for ALL states.

In my brothers situation, Medicare pays for X amount of days, Medicaid pays for X amount of days- After X is satisfied/met, his Social Security pays -- minus a small stipend/allowance- 

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In my Aunt and Uncle's situation, they got enough from the sale of their farm to live in a very nice facility and started with an assisted living apartment, then moving to full care nursing home on the site as their health failed. It was very expensive to have this level, nicer standard of living than most of the rest of the family had. My DH's mother moved to a small apartment near his family when she was older. His father would not let her live with them because she was so difficult , none of the children could stand her either. They could only afford what the medicare/medicaid would cover and that facility was not anywhere anyone would want to live in. It only worked because MIL went every day to take care of her mother and made sure the woman was bathed, had clean clothes, and was fed, checked on her medicines, ect.

I'd like to think our government would do something to actually fix the broken, incredibly expensive health care system in this country. I just don't have much faith that it will get better anytime soon.

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35 minutes ago, missmm said:

In my Aunt and Uncle's situation, they got enough from the sale of their farm to live in a very nice facility and started with an assisted living apartment, then moving to full care nursing home on the site as their health failed. It was very expensive to have this level, nicer standard of living than most of the rest of the family had. My DH's mother moved to a small apartment near his family when she was older. His father would not let her live with them because she was so difficult , none of the children could stand her either. They could only afford what the medicare/medicaid would cover and that facility was not anywhere anyone would want to live in. It only worked because MIL went every day to take care of her mother and made sure the woman was bathed, had clean clothes, and was fed, checked on her medicines, ect.

Kudos to Aunt and Uncle, missmm. They took care of themselves. Lots of people prefer to transfer the cost of medical care to the US taxpayers vs divesting their own assets (such as farms). It's legal to do while following very specific rules.
 
For example: A person needs/wants to spend their assets down to the medicaid limit (2k) before going into assisted living, works well in states that accept medicaid for AL expenses IF one believes in spend down. We have clients who do want to spend down, so they transfer assets to others well before the "look-back rule" (or so they hope), I find that morally reprehensible.
 
We advise people who want to "help family spend down for medicaid" (while caring for a person) to make sure they cover all care/needs and then take a "salary" for managing care, pay for "miles" using IRS business rate for driving to medical appointments, shopping, errands. Pay "room" expenses to themself at IRS (business expense type) rates and calculations for the utilities, insurance, taxes, mortgage or rent on the bedroom and other rooms used (1 bedroom, kitchen and living room out of an 8 room home, for example, no counting bathrooms and laundry or basement). Adding as many expenses as one can justify (including salary). It's all legit, though not nice to fellow taxpayers.
 
Last I helped a client, only $4500/ mo was the amount of assets that could be spent/transferred out before the "look-back" rule about hiding assets would apply. No rules impact what the $4500/mo can be spent on: food, clothes, lotto tickets, vacations, maids, visa bills, anything. That said, one can't transfer excess assets (over the $4500/mo) to other folks, except with very specific reasons/limits/relationships or the "look-back" rules will apply for X years, to protect the government and medicaid funds from fraud. Needed/justified care is not capped, to be clear. But one can spend/divest (on other than care) only about $4500/mo without risking scrutiny and government "look-back".
 
I personally am not in favor of "spending down" but I don't write medicaid rules and policy.
 
ETA: what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe that people should pass their own wealth/home/farm to others and thus force the taxpayer to pay for that persons care vs using their own assets. Ones kids don't need the assets.
Edited by JanelleK
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On 2/14/2018 at 10:29 AM, RoseRed135 said:

So deeply  sorry about your sister and hope her last days are as peaceful, comfortable and pain-free as possible. Sorry about your brother, too, and that he is in a less well-cared-for facility. Also, sorry about his injury. (Is there any talk of having him moved to a cleaner facility w/ perhaps more competent staff?)

Also, sorry about your niece's injury. Some of those who work w/ the sick and the elderly deserve medals, IMO. She sounds like she's one of them.

But your mom sounds awesome! 98! Wow! Best to her! And hope she's able to keep her independence - and her sense of humor - for as long as possible!

She is being cared for by an incredibly compassionate staff, a team of Hospice workers are with her now as well as my other sister- Yesterday was tearful, off and on- My brother on the other hand, I think, is where he wants to be since his preferences are different- It's me that would prefer he be in another facility ..

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