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RoseRed135

Do/Should Grandparents Have Visitation "Rights?"

Grandparent Visitation Rights?    58 votes

  1. 1. I am (check all that apply)

    • a parent
      35
    • a grandparents
      20
    • neither
      3
  2. 2. I believe grandparents have the right to see their grandchildren (check all that apply)

    • whenever they want
      1
    • once-a-week
      1
    • once-a-month
      0
    • on a regular basis
      15
    • only if and when the parents see fit
      36

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

71 posts in this topic

I have to agree with Justa.  We all know what parents can do to their children when over and over they tell them they don't know what they're doing, they're idiots, they aren't worth a thing, or when they say the same thing about their friends.  Children start to take on the feelings their parents' words portray.

 

People are suggestable.  If we love someone and or trust a person, we tend to believe at least part of what the other person says.  If we hear it over and over, we believe it more.  If we don't see what would dispute what the person says, we believe it even more.  Sometimes abusive people, whoever they are, try to isolate the ones they abuse.  This can be a parent, a spouse, anyone.  That keeps the abused person from seeing what might dispute what the abuser is saying, as well as helping the abuser maintain power over the abused.

 

If someone has grown up feeling less that awesome, it is much easier for another person to keep a thumb on him or her, and for what many call "brainwashing" to continue or escalate.

 

Just because someone is adult or male or anything else, doesn't mean he or she can't be convinced of things that aren't true....

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I liken the rights of grandparents to the rights of people to drive a car. It's a privilege, not a right. If there is no respect for the parents, they should not be required to hand over their child just because they have a title of grandparent.

 

I despise the "Well, I raised mine, and they turned out fine" argument. My SO and his Sister will both tell anyone that asks they only turned out the way they did because of their father. Their mother alone would have done irreparable damage.

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@ Kalana - Again, very true, IMO. And another reason, perhaps, to try to raise confident sons and daughters!

 

@ Newbie - Also, in some cases, the person's kids didn't "turn out fine" in the eyes of others, even though that person may think they did. :)  More often, yes, they're ok, but the couple still have some different ideas of what they want for their  children or what works for them as parents.

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I don't like the poll. For ine thing, what if you are not local?

Anyway, I am a grandparent.  Do i have rights to visit?  Well I would assume that was up to the parents UNTIL (and this is the reason most rights for GP are given) the child lived with me for over 6 months and a family/familiar care taker bond was formed.  Even if I did not have Permanent guardianship of my GS, if parents got it together right now and I felt they could raise gs and decided to allow him to live with them or even if I didn't have perm but temp and they took me to court to get him back, i would still be given substantial visitation since I was the primary CG for over 6 months (now even longer).  I can't imagine NOT being a part of his life  and being denied visits.  I know my son wouldn't do that anyway.  I didn't take gs from him, he consented knowing I was the best place for the little guy.  

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Oh and to add to that.... As I said, until the time I took over as Primary CG for my gs for extended time, visitation would have been up to the discretion of his parents.  We had a good relationship anyway prior...... Now that I have GS, do I give the other GP unsupervised visitation? No!  She asked to have him and I talked it over with DH and DS and both of them looked at me like I was crazy for even considering it.  She had run out of state with her own kids when CPS was after her.  So since I am raising GS and we are the permanent guardians, we are the acting parents in saying No!  It isn;t just the way past that makes us say that now either...  Long story.

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@ 123 - I have no doubt that you're the "best place" for your GS, and, clearly, DS knows it too! And I understand why you feel you would/should "be given substantial visitation" if GS ever went back to live with his parents. Sadly, however, I've heard of cases where that didn't happen. I don't believe that would ever be the situation in your case, but I'm not sure why you seem to feel the visitation would be automatic. Is that just b/c you trust DS to keep you in GS' life, no matter what or does it reflect your state laws?

 

Regardless, at the same time, I see you appreciate that there are some GPs who can't have the kind of visitation they want. And that b/c you have guardianship, you realize some of the issues that some parents face when having to decide "yes" of "no." In a sense, IMO, you're a person who can see this issue from both sides of the ledger.

 

I'm sorry you don't like the poll though. But I'm not clear on what it has to do with whether or not a GP is "local." Are you suggesting that I should have included an option that said "if they aren't local?" Or added a question such as, "Does it make a difference if the GPs are local?" ... Interesting thoughts...

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I was referring to the second question.  If they are not local it is not reasonable IMO to assume they have the right to see kids often.  I mean i can say I want to see my GCH who lives in Hawaii or wherever at least once a month but it is feasible?  No  That is all I meant by it.  Didn't think it was realistic when your GP don't live in close proximity.  Maybe when time and vacations allow?  I would have picked that one ;)

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Oh and ad far as GP right where I live... In order to be a guardian like I am, the child must have lived with me for the last 6 months before they will considering petition.    There has to be an established bond.  That then ties into Visitation, that if a gch has lived with a GP and formed a care giver bond, then the GP may petition and receive visitation rights regardless of parent choice.  That protects the GP that have acted as caregivers from their kids coming and taking the kids back after bond has formed and denying the bond and visitation between the two.  It is set up for the welfare of the child mostly.  Esp when infants and toddlers.  This can be of course over ruled if it is found that the GP are found themselves to be unfit.

 

I can see both issues.  Even from a parent getting their children back that it must be difficult to be the parent and get that back when GP are still in the picture but you have to consider the child and not your own insecurities just as the GP needs to step back except as GP now and allow the parents the chance IF there is not a safety to child issue.  I still say though parents either have it or they don't.  In many conversations with different CPS workers they agree.  Reunification works IF the parent was a good parent to begin with and just got involved with some bad stuff.  It doesn't work when the parent sucked to begin with and put their child last.  They really need to look at that before actually giving some of these kids back.  

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@ 123 - All points taken. And thanks for filling us in more on the laws in your state. Also, I like "when time and vacations allow." :) I won't add it now (not sure I can) but it would have been another good option, even if you're being slightly tongue-in-cheek. However, I think "on a regular basis" could apply in some cases, even if that "regular basis" were only once or twice a year at prescribed times. :)

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If you can not respect the parent, how are they to trust you with their most prized and cherished entity in their life? 

Doesn't the parent need to earn respect. In my case I have walked in and seen maggots in the crib filled with dirty diapers. She move to NC and left her son behind. She has been in and out of rehab for pills. She has 4 kids by 4 different dads. The third one she tried to put up for adoption. She had it narrowed down to 7 people who could be that kids father,.. yes NARROWED down. The 4th kid she doesn't even know because she was sleeping with random men when her pills became a heroin addiction. I could go on and on about her, so please explain your rational on that. Does this parent have the right to order me when and when I could not see my GS?

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Hi Treyci! It's Rosered135 (I've spoken with you in response to your bolg)  I think MPH was talking about the average, stable parent, not the kind like your DIL. And though I know you're addressing MPH here, I just want to say that, based on some of the things you've told us, sadly, IDK if your GS is the "most prized and cherished entity" in your DIL's life (or any of her kids for that matter). So she's not the type of parent MPH was talking about. Granted, though, perhaps MPH's statement was too general.

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Doesn't the parent need to earn respect. In my case I have walked in and seen maggots in the crib filled with dirty diapers. She move to NC and left her son behind. She has been in and out of rehab for pills. She has 4 kids by 4 different dads. The third one she tried to put up for adoption. She had it narrowed down to 7 people who could be that kids father,.. yes NARROWED down. The 4th kid she doesn't even know because she was sleeping with random men when her pills became a heroin addiction. I could go on and on about her, so please explain your rational on that. Does this parent have the right to order me when and when I could not see my GS?

 

Hi Treyci.  No one here thinks what you've seen in the lack of care for your GS is ok.  Like rose said, MPH was talking about normal parents, not the over-the-top ones that are your experience.  I'm sorry you and your GS are going through this! 

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I believe grandparent's in some case's have this right, but you must take each case by case, but remember when you cut out a grandparent out of a child life you have damaged your own relationship with your son or daughter.

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Interesting viewpoint, vmac! Welcome! But I'm not exactly clear on what you mean when you say a parent has "damaged (their) own relationship with (their) son or daughter" when they "cut out a grandparent." Can you explain?

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The way I interpret vmac's words, rose, is that children can tell what's going on, when parents cut out a grandparent.  Depending on their ages, they might see the whole picture.  If they have a loving relationship with their grandparent and their parents cut a grandparent out, it could damage the parent in the children's eyes.

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That's what I thought was meant, too, Kalana, but I wasn't sure.  Perhaps she'll come back in and let us know but, then again, perhaps not.

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Just because the parents and grandparents have a disagreement with each other and it does not concern the gc they should not keep the child from visiting the grandparent. My granddaughter has lived with me for almost 2yrs and because my son and dil and I had a disagreement (thay were living with my husband and I at the time of the incident)that doesn't mean they should be able to keep her from us.

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But I take it that they are doing just that, atakett (please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm so deeply sorry, if that's the case! Meanwhile, kudos to you and DH (dear husband) for taking them and your GD (granddaughter) in, during their time of need!

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I never liked it when my grandkids were used as pawns to hurt me. We are all ok now and things have been worked out and apologies were said and the gandkids are in my life more than ever now.

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Doesn't the parent need to earn respect. In my case I have walked in and seen maggots in the crib filled with dirty diapers. She move to NC and left her son behind. She has been in and out of rehab for pills. She has 4 kids by 4 different dads. The third one she tried to put up for adoption. She had it narrowed down to 7 people who could be that kids father,.. yes NARROWED down. The 4th kid she doesn't even know because she was sleeping with random men when her pills became a heroin addiction. I could go on and on about her, so please explain your rational on that. Does this parent have the right to order me when and when I could not see my GS?

This has nothing to do with a parent earning respect.  This has nothing to do with a grand parent being allowed to visit.  This is an issue of a child that should NOT be living there, no matter who the grandparents are.  Someone else should have custody, if the courts deem the grandparent a worthy choice, fine.  But regular visitation is not even relevant in that situation, until of course the child is removed from such an unsafe situation.  Once the child's immediate safety is taken care of PERHAPS it is worth it to look at the issue of extended family having visitation but the child being in a safe environment is the top priority.

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For several years I was a co-custodial parent to my grandchild. The child is now living with the mother because of my marital breakdown. My spouse sent our grandchild back to live with the mother without my knowledge or consent. I thought the child was going to visit for few weeks during the summer months.

Since our marital break up, the child's mother is not allowing me access to my grandchild. she is telling my grandchild that it is my fault that his grandfather ended up in jail for assaulting me. The result of the assault was a head injury to me resulting in my estranged husband being charged with assault causing bodily harm.

My estranged husband and my grandchild's parents are telling my grandchild lies and poisoning him against me to the point he does not want to see me anymore. I have been in court for almost one year trying to gain access to my grandchild. All I have ever wanted was to be able to call up and ask if they wanted to go to the show or go out for lunch or dinner or just hang out for the day.

Can someone tell me why I should be denied reasonable access to the grandchild that I raised for 6 years?

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Keep on keeping on, sureagain!  I don't know why you can't see your grandchild (you can't see him at all??), and know it must be difficult for you, especially if you feel he's being told lies about you. 

 

How old is he?  Do you keep in touch by phone, email, texts?

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Thnx Kalana.

Sometimes talking about this is soooo tiresome. " heavy sigh"

My grandson is now 11 1/2 years old and at the request of his mother ( she asked us to take him for 2 weeks because she was having a hard time dealing with the breakup of her relationship with our son) lived with us from the age of 3 1/2 years old - 9 1/2 years old. She had relinquished custody of her oldest son to his paternal grandparents and after going to court on our initiation, unfortunately we were only granted shared custody with our grandsons mother. We were asking for full custody but she would not allow it because in our opinion she wanted to maintain a foothold with our son. She was ... is and probably always will be a very manipulative person. Because we wanted our grandson to be a part of our lives we dealt with her personality as best as we could. She had already denied me access for one month when he was just a baby because she did not like something I said to her oldest son ( he was breaking the rules in my house and she chose to ignore it but after several occurrences I could no longer ignore it and scolded him). She consistently used her children as weapons in order to get what she wanted and apparently she is still doing that. She has a vile temper and a "I will get/pay you back 10 fold" attitude toward anyone she deems has done her wrong. This is from her mouth to my ears.

Because of the prospect of emotional blackmail I tried to accommodate her the best I could whenever I could. It seemed to be the only way of guaranteeing an ongoing and consistent relationship with my firstborn grandchild prior to him coming to live with us. She used my love for my grandchild to satisfy her own agenda. And at that time my son who was living with her would not stand up to her because it was just easier to pacify her than to deal with her wrath.

Re: grandson coming to live with us

His mother asked us to take him for 2 weeks. When those two weeks for up there were no requests coming from the mother to have the child returned. Because we loved having him with us we were in no hurry to send him back to her. He had found a loving, caring and stable home with us and she saw this. At no time in the six years that he lived with us did she request that he be returned to her. In fact at one point about 2 years ago I asked her when she thought that she might want him to come back and live with her. Her response was " When he can look after himself". My marriage was on shaky ground at that time but I was willing to stay in the marriage so that my grandson would not have to go through another abandonment. His father had not seen him in 4 years and his mother who did visit on occasion left a lot to be desired as a parent. Often times she would come to our house and spend days and days and days here ... But again I just said nothing because I did not want to ruffle any ones feathers. By this time my husband was not supportive dealing with her bad behavior & consequently I was told to keep my mouth shut in order to pasify HER and keep HER happy. I begrudgingly did as I was told but needless to say resentment did brew.

To be continued

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You had legal shared custody?  Court-initiated?  Is it still in effect?

 

You've gone to court to get this resolved, right?  What's happened in court?

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She has been granted temporary custody until this is settled within the court system. I have only relinquished what rights I had because of my marital status. I was/am not prepared to raise a child on my own at my age. Because of the profession that my husband chose when our children were young [he admittedly chose it because it would keep him away from home and away from his parental and spousal responsibilities that he was not enjoying being part of (from his mouth to my ears)] I was well aware of how hard it was to be a single parent. Unfortunately I wasn't the best parent at that time but with maturity and wisdom I can honestly say that I was/am a very good, kind and loving grandmother. My grandson and I use to do all kinds of things together from the time he was a baby until he went back to his mother. We had a very special relationship until he started school and that is when his grandfather began to do whatever he could to undermine our relationship ie changing the rules that we had set out together, after I would say no he would say yes etc etv etc. The blatant disrespect and disregard for any authority that I might have or shared was compromised and undermined regularly. I felt displaced. I always acknowledged that I was not my grandsons mother but I was his co-parent. As time went on I felt like neither his parent OR his grandmother. I did not feel valued or respected as either. Eventually my grandson started to disrespect me as shown by his grandfather.

tbc

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