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RoseRed135

Do/Should Grandparents Have Visitation "Rights?"

Grandparent Visitation Rights?    58 votes

  1. 1. I am (check all that apply)

    • a parent
      35
    • a grandparents
      20
    • neither
      3
  2. 2. I believe grandparents have the right to see their grandchildren (check all that apply)

    • whenever they want
      1
    • once-a-week
      1
    • once-a-month
      0
    • on a regular basis
      15
    • only if and when the parents see fit
      36

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

71 posts in this topic

Currently I get one 2 hour supervised visit per month because my husband I told my grandsons mother that I came into some money from the sale of our house and that I couldn't be trusted to not try to take my grandson away. She being a paranoid person and totally unreasonable she bought into what my ex said and ran with it. My ex has also convinced her that I am a liar and a thief and that I pose a threat to our grandson. I believe this all stems from the fact that he ended up being charged and convicted with asssalt causing bodily harm and this is his pay back. They have convinced my grandson that it was my fault that his grandfather ended up in jail and now he cannot travel out of the country with them. also my grandsons mother is extremely moody, unpredictable and socially inept.

Tbc

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How do you know all this stuff?

 

It's sad that you're going through all of this and also sad your grandson is, as well...

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My ex put it in the court papers. :-(

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What a heartbreaking story, sureagain! A few aspects are unclear to me but that doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of pain here. My heart goes out to you! And to your GS (grandson), as well!

 

More specifically, for one thing, I'm so sorry for the problems you've had throughout your marriage and even more so for your head injury! I hope it hasn't had any lasting effects. I'm also sorry that you had to go through a divorce though, of course, in many ways, it was probably better for you than remaining married to your X.  And I know you must be disappointed in your DS' lack of interest in his son, so I feel for you there, too.

 

But mostly, my heart aches for the fact that you hardly get to see GS. As the GP caregiver to my 2 darling GC, I know that I sometimes miss them, even when I don't see them for just a day or two. How much harder must it be for you to have gone from being with GS every day for 6 years and doing "all kinds of things together" to seeing him only once a month for 2 hours, and those only under supervision. I can barely imagine how difficult that drastic change must be!

 

IDK if your "to be continued" post means that you have more to tell us now and just haven't done it yet or that you plan to tell us more, down the road, as the court case continues. But I'm wondering if you could explain how you know that GS "does not want to see (you) anymore?" Did he say that or did one of the adults? Also, has he ever missed any of the visits b/c of his alleged reluctance to see you? And how does he act/how do things go during the actual visits?

 

Meanwhile, I wish you all the strength, courage and wisdom you need to face this continuing ordeal!

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Thank You Rosered. I appreciate your kind words and concern.

Just to clarify I am NOT divorced yet but am currently separated.

Aso I have been allowed supervised visitation once a month with my grandson but to date he has refused to come in and see me. His mother is not encouraging him to come in to see me. She claims that it is my fault that my grandson is currently in counseling as does my son. My son claims that I have "f##%&d up my grandson. How I ask? I have seen him once quite by accident for approximately 10 to 15 minutes in the past year & prior to that I saw him briefly after his hockey games & never alone. I asked to see him during the Easter holidays in 2012 but was denied by his mother. When I questioned why she lost her temper and started screaming at me over the phone saying, "Don't you ask me why! I don't want you anywhere near my son. You are a thief and a liar and you can't be trusted!!!". Keep in mind here she had been talking to my husband and he claims that I took some money that he had hidden in his locked desk :-( to which I have adamantly denied. Then she proceeded to threaten me with a restraining order for the second time if I came anywhere near my grandson. Keep in mind she is screaming that at me over the phone and my grandson was there. Because I am well aware of her wrath I respected her threat knowing that I would file an access petition with the court when she filed to regain custody. I had no idea at the time that it was going to be as difficult as it has been and that the outcome would be as it is today ie. my grandson being poisoned regarding me and the length of time it has taken in the court system. This process has been devastating to me.

When I did see my grandson quite by chance for the 10 to 15 minutes in a local retail store ( he was with my estranged husband) I thought I was going to fall apart because of the No Contact Order my husband has regarding me, I didn't know what to do or what to say. At first I just watched as my heart was pounding so hard I was sure everyone around me could hear it. Eventually I called out to my grandson and when he saw me he took a step towards me then stopped ... looked at his grandfather for permission to come to me ... waited for his grandfather to give permission and when that didn't come I said, "Are you going to let him come see me?". Then with a reluctant nod, he gave my grandson permission to come to me. As my grandson was approaching me he asked, " where have you been?" After many hugs and many kisses by both of us I told him that his mother refused to allow me to see him. But I reassured him that I loved him and no matter what anyone said to him about me, I didn't want him to ever forget that. And because of the situation I needed to know if my grandson wanted me in his life or not because the last thing I wanted to do was to mess him up or intrude where I was not wanted or welcomed. When I asked him if he wanted me in his life he emphatically said "YES!!!". When we eventually parted and as he was walking away with his grandfather I could see him wiping the tears from his eyes with his t-shirt.

Now fast-forward 3 months. The court was being told by his mother, my husband and my son that this same boy who hugged and kissed me and cried when he left me did not want to see me anymore. How could this be? I will tell you. I know my grandson. I know when he went home he tore a strip off of his mother and she retaliated (because that's what she does when she is backed into a corner and has to face the consequences of her own actions) by telling my grandson lies about me. He has been poisoned to serve her own agenda. She has never graciously allowed her perceived authority to be questioned. NEVER. As I have previously said she is a very vindictive person and I should have known better but did not want my grandchild to think that I purposely did not see him. I did not want him to think it was my choice. When I saw him in that retail store my head was reeling ... my heart took over ... and I know in my heart my grandson loved me as much as I love him. "crying"

To be continued

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And in response to your questions Rosered135, the court was told by my estranged husband, my grandsons mother and my son that my grandson does not want to see me. This was revealed in approximately the third court date when my husband claimed he hadn't mentioned it because "he didn't want to hurt my feelings". What a crock of BS!!! Hurting me and destroying me emotionally has been one of the goals all along. You see, I believe his intent was/is to drive me to desperation by making a suicide attempt and being able to claim that I was unstable. Approx 5 1/2 yrs ago I was an emotionally fragile person due to the emotional abuse inflected on me regularly by my husband and grown sons. I also came from an emotionally abusive childhood.

Also during this time ie the court case, my father became very ill and subsequently passed away on March 2013.

I am also dealing with my separation from my husband who has decided that he is not going to give me any support money and has not cooperated in any of the proceedings to date. He has dismissed his lawyer claiming he cannot afford him. :-(

Because of the abuse from my husband I have been forced out of my home, having to stay in a women's shelter, then having to stay with a friend and sleep on their couch, having to stay with my mother in another community 1+ hour away, all because he wouldn't give me any money so I could get an apartment of my own. I couldn't even afford to rent a room somewhere. This has been a very stressful time but I have not broken because I am stronger now. I am happily separated!!!! :-)

And so my life continues .....

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I'm crying, too, sureagain! I don't know what's getting to me more - your brief but emotional reunion with GS, the fact that you haven't seen him since, the abuse and general misfortune you have suffered, first as a child and then again, at the hands of your X....

 

So many heartaches, coming one right after the other. BTW, my deepest condolences on the loss of your father.

 

It's amazing that you survive it all and fight on! I just hope you are also getting some counseling to help you cope. And, of course, hopefully, talking to us here will help, as well.

 

I'm so deeply sorry if GS is being 'poisoned" against you. And it sounds as it that's very possible. I'm thinking, though, that he just goes along with whoever he's with. When he saw you, he didn't go over to you until your X said ok. Only then, did he feel free to approach you and let his feelings out. When he's with his mom, sad to say, he may feel he has to hide his love for you. It's also conceivable that when he sees you, he realizes how much he loves and misses you, but, well... I don't want to say "out-of-sight, out-of-mind"... but probably he gets busy with friends, homework, extracurricular activities, etc... he's at that age where kids begin to have less time for "Gramma," regardless. But, IMO, the 2nd scenario is more likely. 

 

OTOH, I'm so glad you had that wonderful, unexpected meeting, as brief as it was. OTOH, I think you took quite a chance. And that his mom could have used it as an excuse/reason to go through with that RO, keeping you from him. But I understand why you took that chance.

 

Please realize that, soon enough, he'll be a teenager. And if he wants and it's possible, he may try to come to visit you or contact you on FB or whatever. If not (if his mom monitors his Internet activity too closely for that, etc.), then maybe when he's 18 or somewhat beyond. It's not so far away, even if, right now, it seems as if it is.  Unless you win your case, of course, which will be a different story. Again, please keep us posted.

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I will Rosered and thank-you for your kindness. You have no idea how much your kindness and empathy mean to me. Our next court date is the end of July. My next scheduled supervised visit with my grandson is also at the end of July but my his mother has cancelled it. She also cancelled the visits for April & May. I missed this months' visit because I got the dates mixed up and didn't receive a conformation phone call as prr usual. I am feeling very sad and disheartened at the present time. No matter what happens I will always have my mories and the dvd and vhs I recently found of my grandson. They make me smile and cry at the same time. :-). :-(

My head knows what you are saying is probably true but my heart hasn't accepted it yet.

Tbc

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If 3 consecutive dates are missed/ cancelled by the same person the remaining appts are cancelled and it is presented to the courts. The last court date to which I did not attend due to my fathers' death, the Judge apparently scolded my x and my grandsons' mother. The judge also emphatically told GS's mother she better encourage GS to come see me. A Legal Aid lawyer, who represented me, told me this. The judge also told them they better not be badmourhing me to my GS and if they found out they were they would be in BIG trouble!!!

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A Childrens' Lawyer has also been appointed at my request. To date, that has not been put into place due to the overload in our area. When it does the lawyer will be talkng to everyone of us. I am looking forward to that.

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Thank you for being so honest and open with us sureagain! It's very much appreciated.

 

I'm glad to hear that there's a judge on your side, as far as visitation and and "badmouthing" are concerned. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much he can do to enforce these very strong statements. But perhaps they will make your daughter and your X think twice about how they're handling things.

 

Also, I'm glad a Children's Lawyer has been appointed. Hopefully, this lawyer will be able to figure out what GS really wants and - perhaps more important - needs and will recommend to the court whatever they feel is in his best interest.

 

I'm glad you have your own attorney, too, though. Too often, I've seen parents or GPs who think of the children's advocate as their lawyer, also, especially if they requested one. But the fact is, as I;m sure you realize,, they're not. They're GS' lawyer, period. Chances are, they will appreciate your side of the story.And that what they see as being in GD's "best interest" will coincide with what you want, as well. But, IMO, it's good you have your own representation, also.

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Rose, sureagain shares legal custody of the child and as a result the badmouthing is a form of alienation of affection that can be quite apparent. Alienation of affection in a custodial case like this is actually illegal in most cases.

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Thanks for the info, Phalen! I didn't realize that! But I thought sureagain gave up her joint custody... or did I misread?

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I might have missed something but I see it as the joint part of the custody was put on hold because of her separation but could still be in play as far as the child stuck in the middle

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Oh, I see what you mean, Phalen. So yes, if the badmouthing continues, I see where it could impact the case. After all the time and effort sureagain has put into this child, I'm glad to hear that. But, of course, I hope everything works out ok in the end.

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Well the Chilfren's Lawyer has finally contacted me!!! :-). Now we are going to finally get somewhere. He wants an adjournment and I have agreed to it. YESss!!! Tgis gives me more time to prepare.

TBC

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Phalen and Rose, prior to my marital seperation I shared legal custody of my grandson with my Xhusband and GS's mother. She applied for sole custody after my X sent him to live with his mother again. Because she did that I applied for visitation/access to my GS cuz I knew without a court order I would be at her mercy ... and she being the unstable and vindictive person she is, I did NOT want to take any chances of being able to see him. She had already denied me access at the previous Easter and had it in her head, if given a chance, I would " run away" with him. When she becomes irrational there is no reasoning with her. I felt going through tge courts was the best safeguard for me without realizing how long it would/could/is taking. I am greatful for the Childrens' Lawyer becase they are looking out for the best interest for my grandchild and in the end ... that is my top prioriry.

Tbc

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Honestly - the concept of having the right, whether legally or colloquially, to circumvent someone else's parenting choices (outside of a context of abuse or neglect) seems incredibly overbearing and controlling. Grandparents are not inherently positive forces in a child's life, and whether involving them in a child's life would cause the child stress or confusion is ultimately something that it is the parent's job, as their primary caretaker, to determine. Parents are not inherently positive forces in a child's life either, and sometimes their choices are selfish or cruel to those around them - but unless they are directly endangering the emotional or physical health of the child, that is a choice they are (sometimes unfortunately) entitled to make.

I've seen many openly rude, cruel, excessively critical, and downright abusive people (Aunts, Uncles, and yes, even Grandparents) claim that they have some kind of familial entitlement to a child. Often their reasoning is that they can help teach them the was of the world, that they will give them a "dose of reality" and be an "honest", "grounding" influence. Meanwhile, in reality, everyone else knows that they are actually excessively critical and eager to verbally abuse the people around them under the guise of "telling things like they are." There are a lot of people that confuse the consequences for their own negativity or overbearing behavior as some kind of baseless cruelty on the part of the child's parents, and cloak their attempts at control in the language of concern.

There's a lot of uncomfortable implications that accompany the idea of Grandparents having visitation rights. The implication that a child can't possibly live a healthy or fulfilling life without Grandma Sue and Grandpa Joe being personally, consistently involved. The implication that the grandparents are the ultimate authority on what is good for the grandchild and should be allowed to circumvent the parents. The implication that the amount of access a grandparent wants to a grandchild is automatically healthy and reasonable - not only that, but that the grandparent not being given the access they want to a grandchild is detrimental to the child's wellbeing. The implication that parents should not be allowed to decide who they want in their child's life if those people have any kind of familial relationship to the child.

Don't get me wrong, if a grandparent has an established neutral or positive relationship with a child and their parents and the restrictions being placed are very clearly in response to something the grandparent has nothing to do with - such as a divorce - denying reasonable visitation and access to the child for the sake of hurting or punishing them is cruel to the grandparents. But at the end of the day, the only reaction that truly puts your grandchildren first is to disengage and hope that when they have agency of their own, they find you. To me, the idea of trying to force visitation and engage in a power struggle with a child's parent seems to be less about the child's quality of life and more about the grandparent's wants and feelings. Which certainly aren't invalid, and may even be correct. But even if they are, trying to push to sidestep the parent's wishes is still subjecting a child to the tension and negativity between the adults involved. Is is still forcing the child to be in the middle of the power play between the adults.

If someone is trying to set up a game using your grandchildren as pawns, trying to "beat" them still has you on the other side of the game board doing the same thing.

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@GaySpaceMom - Welcome! Glad you came in to share your views w/ us! Your post, IMO, is very thought-provoking.

However, we generally ask members not to post in threads that are more than 3 months old, unless they're the OP (original poster) or it's a "stickypost"/ thread pinned (thumb tack icon) to the front of the forum. As this is a very old thread, I'm going to lock it down, and open a new one in its place in this same forum. Then I'll copy & paste your post to the new thread. :)

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Here's the link to the new thread:

 

 

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